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owned or not...? That's the question...
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Telthea
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-31 11:56:13 UTC
After a few years of killing npc's, mining and doing some more stuff I thought of going a other direction and start the Marketing Business.
I don't know it is actually a question but let me explain what accord to me a day ago.
I can't really find a answer for it.
Yesterday I saw a buy order of someone. Names are not important, what's been done is done.
It was a order for 23k units all to be delivered in one go. 150k/u. You could by them all in the station for 120k/u.
So you would say, hmm nice deal. So I bought them all, not 2sec later I tried to sell it and the buy order was gone.
Seems a really nice trick, you get all your items sold in 1 go and the buyer get's to stay behind with the items.

Is this what we call, you are scammed? Is this really a person behind the other comp, because I dunno but 2sec to see the transaction of the sell order, press on the cancel buy order button seems really fast for a humanSmile
Probably this is how trading is mend to be in Eve. I have no hard feelings of what happened to me, seems I needed to learn the hard way.
I'm probably been owned, but does anyone else ever had to feel what I have felt?
Just let me know, I might learn from itSmile
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-12-31 12:06:25 UTC
its called margin trading(skill)scam. its a skill that allows to buy more(buy orders) than you can afford. the sell orders in station were overly overpriced, thats the way they get their money.

shar'ra phone home
Telthea
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-31 13:25:30 UTC
thx for the explanation.
I looked it up on how it works, seems a real glitch in the system.
Why not give collateral on what you are buying. If you like to buy items, give the amount you are willing to pay and it get's immediately subtracted from you wallet on placing the buy order. So the isk is always delivered to the seller. Problem solved, but seems it is way more complicated than that.
Bob Killan
Dzark Asylum
#4 - 2012-12-31 13:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Killan
Telthea wrote:
thx for the explanation.
I looked it up on how it works, seems a real glitch in the system.
Why not give collateral on what you are buying. If you like to buy items, give the amount you are willing to pay and it get's immediately subtracted from you wallet on placing the buy order. So the isk is always delivered to the seller. Problem solved, but seems it is way more complicated than that.


Just mimics real life trading except there is no debt in eve so instead the order is cancelled. Would be nice if it filled the order to the point of the collateral coverage as that would make the scam a little harder.

ie you place a buy order for a ship worth 10 mil and you want to buy 100 ships at 1m Isk each (minimum volume 100). You place 25 mill in escrow. If Johnny tried to sell 100 ships to the order and no cash is left in the seller wallet then Johnny sells 25 ships and gets the 25m collateral. the rest of the order is cancelled.

Although this wouldn't help jonny if he bought over priced ships it would (most likely) have avoided Jonny falling for the scam as a Real trader would have spotted the over priced buy order and ruined the scammer's day.

Obviously we couldnt have wallets that can go negative otherwise we could print our own isk with it.

Margin trading is an invaluble tool to traders who use it as it should be used and the scams are so obvious its probably not worth coding it out plus scams are "legal" in Eve so just follow the golden rule:

If it looks too good to be true then it most probably is.

Although saying they are obvious is IMO. This thread comes up once a week so it pretty sucessful. Do people lose there common sense when logging in too games???
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#5 - 2012-12-31 15:03:49 UTC
why cant you read the basics before investing that much isk? or did you really expect the guy is too stupid to set up an order like that?

Just remember, dont be greedy. You can be as dumb/unprepared as you want to, but as long as you dont get greedy you'll be fine.
Lesa Cromwell
#6 - 2012-12-31 16:20:46 UTC
For the margin scam, does the person have to start with enough money for the transaction? (And then presumably trade it off to an alt so they can't then afford the stuff). Or do you only need as much as the buy order escrow requires?
Emma d'Acques
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-12-31 17:04:12 UTC
You only need as much as the buy escrow needed.
Should you have a bit of ISK left, send it to an alt for good measure.

I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-12-31 17:40:35 UTC
Lesa Cromwell wrote:
For the margin scam, does the person have to start with enough money for the transaction? (And then presumably trade it off to an alt so they can't then afford the stuff). Or do you only need as much as the buy order escrow requires?


24% of the total volume @ lvl 5. GL trying


shar'ra phone home
Delthus
Respawn Disabled
#9 - 2012-12-31 18:03:55 UTC
Bob Killan wrote:
[quote=Telthea]thx for the explanation.

Obviously we couldnt have wallets that can go negative otherwise we could print our own isk with it.




Just want to say not true u can have a negative isk wallet if CCP decides you made illegal profit and takes all the isk you made resulting in a negative 1.6 trilion isk wallet XD not that that has happened to me or anyone i know or anything Roll
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#10 - 2012-12-31 18:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
there's a way how to scam the scammer, search forums.

its old, its locked but here it is.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=91204
Ravenclaw2kk
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-12-31 19:08:38 UTC
only assuming that they haven't cleared their escrow and that you can get the items at the correct price elsewhere
Charlepetit LaJoie
Trust Me Ltd
#12 - 2012-12-31 19:13:31 UTC
I think most new traders have been tricked by this scam at least once.

The good news is, the more it hurts, the less likely you will be to fall for that trick again.

To avoid this scam in the future, there are two clues to look for. Check the price history of the item, and check the minimum required number you need to buy or sell.

The scam artist wants to trick you into buying a large number of items at too high a price.

If the price history shows that the item usually costs much less in that region, then the seller is trying to trick you into paying too high a price.

If the minimum number of items you must buy or sell is a high number , (when typical orders for that item only require you to buy or sell one*), then somebody is trying to trick you into buying a large number of those overpriced items.

*Note, however, that an honest trader might sometimes set the "Min required" to a higher number for items like Ore, because he or she is only interested in flying a freighter to that star system for a full cargo load of Ore.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-01 01:48:33 UTC
Charlepetit LaJoie wrote:
I think most new traders have been tricked by this scam at least once.

The good news is, the more it hurts, the less likely you will be to fall for that trick again.

To avoid this scam in the future, there are two clues to look for. Check the price history of the item, and check the minimum required number you need to buy or sell.

The scam artist wants to trick you into buying a large number of items at too high a price.

If the price history shows that the item usually costs much less in that region, then the seller is trying to trick you into paying too high a price.

If the minimum number of items you must buy or sell is a high number , (when typical orders for that item only require you to buy or sell one*), then somebody is trying to trick you into buying a large number of those overpriced items.

*Note, however, that an honest trader might sometimes set the "Min required" to a higher number for items like Ore, because he or she is only interested in flying a freighter to that star system for a full cargo load of Ore.


Nutshell, look at the market history and make sure the price, volume, and common sense line up.