EVE General Discussion

Firstly, let me just say I think we've been had some really constructive discussions about this topic recently and there have been great points from both sides about how this problem can be addressed. A special mention to ISD and CCP who have done an excellent job remaining neutral and attempting to keep the forums clear of trolling.

For those that missed it, we recently had a discussion here about certain times when AFK mining can help expand the gameplay of many users.

I thought it might be worth doing some further investigation into the "bot" conspiracy as a whole.

Sometimes, when participating in a battle of ideals it’s important try and remove emotion from your thoughts and try to think logically about what it is you are actually fighting for. It’s important to jump to the other side of the fence and try and understand things from another perspective.

The eradication of bots is certainly a noble cause and one I would gladly support, I mean – who wouldn't?

But before swearing blind loyalty to a cause, fitting out a catalyst and suicide ganking a 4 week old player unable to fly anything more tanked than a retriever, it’s important to have a look at the facts.

How much time is required?

Firstly, at my latest count there are around 125 readily available locations to mine various kind of ice in. To completely eradicate bots, these will need to be actively monitored 23/7. This would equate to 20,125 hours per week that will need to be dedicated to patrolling these sectors.

In the studies I have been conducting so far, it seems those willing to patrol these systems spend around 3-4 hours per week roughly. (I completely acknowledge this is an estimate and also that there are many who dedicate more and many who dedicate less hours.)

However, on this estimation, that would mean over 5,000 active players are needed at any given moment to ensure each ice belt is actively monitored. It’s no secret that movements established to attempt to “eradicate” bots have garnered some support – but I think it’s safe to say not to the level of 5,000 active players per week participating.

What kind of impact are the (current) small scale operations having on the market?

When you get down to it – people can lie, propaganda can lie, blogs (lo and behold) can lie. But the one thing that cannot is raw numbers.

The promise that bumping miners out of range will create a “better future for all” by “removing bots from the game” and subsequently increase the price of token products like ice really needs to be backed up by numbers. Various operations have been in effect long enough now that we should already be seeing results. However, a quick look at Jita reveals that not to be the case. As the graphs here, here and here illustrate.

Since the movement to “bump” miners out of range has begun – there has been absolutely no upwards pressure on the price of ice. (aside from a few market variations, which is completely normal).

In fact, over all there has been quite a dramatic net decrease in the price of ice.

But let’s speak hypothetically here and say it does start to have an impact on the price of ice in the future and starts to push it upwards. Even then, as we’ve mentioned above – it’s going to be almost impossible to mobilise 5,000 willing, active and able players to monitor the ice fields which means if there are people out there unethically making ISK, then their profits will skyrocket.

How will the so called “bots” adapt?

Once again, let’s look at a hypothetical situation where the movement is able to garner 5,000 active players to assist in the eradication of bots. Will that spell the end of non player farming?

Absolutely not. Due to the nature of the game, Eve is a rather difficult game to create a bot for (I’m not saying it’s impossible) Not to deduce that there aren’t purely script driven bots out there but even so, the constant risk of losing ships, downtime, depletion of asteroids. incursions etc make mining a task that requires at least some involvement, some of the time by a human being.

Further to that, having a read through this article here shows that even if there were bots & they were all eradicated by the simple inconvenience of being “bumped” slightly out of range it wouldn't solve the problem. That article lists one location, where 300 prisoners were forced to play games and raked in around $1,000 USD a day selling the proceeds. Even if you take the prisoner component out of it and incorporate a bunch of game clients running at the same time – that formula is easy to replicate, turn a profit as a functioning business while still paying staff and overheads. (Do a quick Google search for websites offering staff willing to work for around $3USD a day and you will see how easy it is to implement).

Want to know the most interesting thing about having those staff members? Paying 10 mil to keep a pirate at pay or updating a line in their bio to continue their mining undisturbed is a small price to price to allow their “business” to operate like normal. (Even if further preventive measures are taken in the future such as continued bumping to ensure their activity, it’s not difficult to ALT + TAB between 10-15 different screens to constantly keep an eye on local. If you don’t believe that is possible, ask James315 how many alts he is able to keep going at one time. You might be surprised).

Stopped reading when I got to that, fix this math and I'll finish reading.

23*7=/=20,125hr's

You can't multiply it by the amount of ice fields if its being patrolled at the same time, especially when the amount that comes out is more hours then there are in a year.

Interactive gameplay > profit.

Period.

Figure that into your calculations.

Gank them all!

Facts? You have no clue, that's fact.

It takes only about 10 days to train for a fully functional T2 shield tank. That's a fact.

With that you get a very decent battlecruiser size tank out of a properly fit procurer and it's even lots cheaper than a retriever.

THAT is the right thing a newbie should be in, until he has learned situational awareness in EVE.

Gotta agree with that part. Training a combat alt I have for Mining cause I need the mins. His Procuror has over 50K ehp.

What's that take.... 3 or 4 Talos to Alpha???

People don't bump miners to disrupt bots. They do it to annoy PEOPLE.

You can't annoy a bot so really they aren't interesting to many players. People on the other hand, and annoying them, is what this game is all about.

I don't think you realise how important screwing with other people is to many players of this game...

FTFY

I don't know, I've never used more than one character at a time. I guess I'm the wrong person to ask. Anything else?

Montiolio should blue them.