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Implant Question! Centurion vs. Talon...
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Primicerius
#1 - 2012-12-28 08:02:22 UTC
Hello all!

I'm currently building a Widow which will be used for group blops work. I already have my fit built, but I can't decide on what sort of clone I am going to be using to fly the Widow in. I will be running a dedicated clone specifically for flying this beast, and yes it will be engaged in combat.

As it stands without implants:

Sensor Strength - 28
ECM Optimal - 35km

I'm using one ECM Strength rig, and one tank rig. What do you suggest I do?

a) Use Centurion Implants to increase ECM optimal to 46km
b) Use Talon Implans to increase ECM strength to 50
c) Exchange a Jammer for ECCM
d) Exchange Tanking Rig for ECM Optimal Rig (43km)
e) Something else entirely.
f) HA! Widow?! NOOOB.

Please let me know what you think, and why you would choose what you choose. Unless you chose F, in which case you should just start posting about how the redeemer is better or how I should start fitting expanded cargoholds. Thanks for the help in advance!

Also, I haven't done any research into what implants would augment the Widow from slots 7-10. If you have any insight on what should be done, I would greatly appreciate it.
Pyus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-28 09:31:16 UTC
Look at the price/availability of a set of Centurions and then tell us if you're still interested in considering that as an option. As for ECM range vs strength, that will depend on the way you intend to use the blops.
Primicerius
#3 - 2012-12-28 10:21:12 UTC
Yes, price is no issue.

Quote:
As for ECM range vs strength, that will depend on the way you intend to use the blops.


What would the depending factor be? Engagements will happen through a cyno, not through warp-ins.
Sorted
Highwaymen
#4 - 2013-01-03 15:42:10 UTC
Cents have a stacking pen, with any other mod/ship bonus effecting the same skill.
they broke imo, next to useless last time i looked
Sorted
Highwaymen
#5 - 2013-01-03 15:43:48 UTC
get crystals and fit part tank, imo.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2013-01-03 22:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
It all depends on what opposition you expect. I would first rule out ECCM. If you're worried about enemy falcons ruining your day, then you're already preparing to lose. Any good blops gang will have a variety of ewar spread among the bombers and/or recons, and you should be able to damp that falcon down or kill him pretty fast. If you're really worried about it, just put a projected ECCM on one of your gang's ships (although they use a ton of CPU).

IMO you should be prioritizing jam strength, and jam range (and maybe targeting speed). Its jams that will let you cloak, its jams that will protect your gang, and its jams that will stop stuff from saving your target. If you guys drop a carrier, and another carrier comes to save him, it'll be a high jam strength that gets you that kill (unless triage, lol). It'll be a high jam strength that prevents that cloud of warrior II's from being ordered to kill your bombers. The range is also useful. Keep in mind that in space, doubling the range of your jams increases the amount of space within your range by a factor of 8. Sometimes the only dimension that matters is the line from you to the target, but once people start trying to save the target, or start congregating 200km off grid to size your gang up and look to pick off stragglers, then that entire space that forms your jam-range, becomes important.

As for using a tanking rig, I wouldn't be so sure on it. A little extra EHP is a nice thing no matter who you are, but the cost may not be worth it (extra jam range). Think about it this way, if you're in a black ops gang, and there's bombers and arazus and pilgrims flying around, then you will not be primaried. First of all, you are an offensive gang, and should be retreating whenever **** looks bad. Jams help you retreat, tank doesn't. There will be no stand up fight with your black ops gang. You will either lock out a small number of targets entirely and **** them, or you will trying to flee, or they will be staying outside your engagement range and trying to snipe your bombers/recons since you won't have logi support. You're an enormous jamming threat, but you aren't the dps that's breaking the tank of their carrier or killing their gang. If you're jamming out half the opposition, the rest of their ships would probably be better served swatting paper thin bombers out of the air than trying to kill you first. My point being that the extra EHP has very little tactical value, while the the better jamming range has excellent tactical value.

That said I have never been in a blops gang where the Blops BS did anything more than serve as a transportation/fuel/misc utility device. So take it with a grain of salt.

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Primicerius
#7 - 2013-01-05 07:29:51 UTC
Batelle wrote:
It all depends on what opposition you expect. I would first rule out ECCM. If you're worried about enemy falcons ruining your day, then you're already preparing to lose. Any good blops gang will have a variety of ewar spread among the bombers and/or recons, and you should be able to damp that falcon down or kill him pretty fast. If you're really worried about it, just put a projected ECCM on one of your gang's ships (although they use a ton of CPU).

IMO you should be prioritizing jam strength, and jam range (and maybe targeting speed). Its jams that will let you cloak, its jams that will protect your gang, and its jams that will stop stuff from saving your target. If you guys drop a carrier, and another carrier comes to save him, it'll be a high jam strength that gets you that kill (unless triage, lol). It'll be a high jam strength that prevents that cloud of warrior II's from being ordered to kill your bombers. The range is also useful. Keep in mind that in space, doubling the range of your jams increases the amount of space within your range by a factor of 8. Sometimes the only dimension that matters is the line from you to the target, but once people start trying to save the target, or start congregating 200km off grid to size your gang up and look to pick off stragglers, then that entire space that forms your jam-range, becomes important.

As for using a tanking rig, I wouldn't be so sure on it. A little extra EHP is a nice thing no matter who you are, but the cost may not be worth it (extra jam range). Think about it this way, if you're in a black ops gang, and there's bombers and arazus and pilgrims flying around, then you will not be primaried. First of all, you are an offensive gang, and should be retreating whenever **** looks bad. Jams help you retreat, tank doesn't. There will be no stand up fight with your black ops gang. You will either lock out a small number of targets entirely and **** them, or you will trying to flee, or they will be staying outside your engagement range and trying to snipe your bombers/recons since you won't have logi support. You're an enormous jamming threat, but you aren't the dps that's breaking the tank of their carrier or killing their gang. If you're jamming out half the opposition, the rest of their ships would probably be better served swatting paper thin bombers out of the air than trying to kill you first. My point being that the extra EHP has very little tactical value, while the the better jamming range has excellent tactical value.

That said I have never been in a blops gang where the Blops BS did anything more than serve as a transportation/fuel/misc utility device. So take it with a grain of salt.


This was all incredibly useful insight, and I appreciate you sharing it with me!