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I Won't Build "Your Empire"
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Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
#61 - 2012-12-27 22:48:22 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
the other problem you ahve is the players,
if ccp focus on industry they complain about the lack of 'pew attention'
if ccp focus on 'the pew' they complain about broken industry


So true.

CCP ignored the playerbase (at least) once and gave us Incarna. Players raged.
CCP listened to the playerbase (at least) once and gave us Crucible. Players raged (once the high wore off).

It's a lose-lose situation. Even Aesop wrote a fable about this: You can't ever please everyone.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-12-27 22:55:32 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:

  • I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.

    • Ladies and gentlemen, the reason why nobody values these posts.

    Dodixie > Hek
    SmilingVagrant
    Doomheim
    #63 - 2012-12-27 22:59:40 UTC
    Bane Necran wrote:
    Alavaria Fera wrote:
    Except a drake blob has usually 250+ players. And when there's multiple blobs, it's much larger.


    If only things were easier the smaller the group you're in, instead of the opposite being true.


    I can say ironically that the smaller a gang is the easier it is to manage/trust everyone is doing the right thing.
    Mocam
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #64 - 2012-12-27 23:11:39 UTC
    LOL!!!

    For almost half a decade nullsec has fought against what that brain damaged individual just posted as how nullsec & eve in general should be seen.

    It's not "clones & drones" fighting big battles.. Yet what does this twit post? Read what he says again..

    R&R time is not for rest & relaxation but "work". Damn but that is one hell of a fubar attitude.
    Forfeiture of individuality - you bring nothing special to 'the blob" in nullsec...
    No small fighting - only blobs is how things should be.

    I suppose a lot has changed since the old days but I don't think even a large portion of nullsec would care for the ideas he expressed.

    And folks wonder why many refuse to go to null these days - to give up their personalities to a hoard mentality and find themselves not "gaming" but "working" at it ? Oh yeah, that sounds like such a very attractive place to go!!!

    Is his post a recruiting post "in drag" for highsec?

    "Highsec - where you can be an individual. Where you can relax and play EVE as a game. Where INDIVIDUALS and SMALL GANGS operate daily to accomplish whatever tasks they set for themselves!" - with a null post "This must be STOPPED!!!"

    yeah, a really good laugh.
    Ginger Barbarella
    #65 - 2012-12-27 23:25:14 UTC
    Mocam wrote:
    LOL!!!

    For almost half a decade nullsec has fought against what that brain damaged individual just posted as how nullsec & eve in general should be seen.

    It's not "clones & drones" fighting big battles.. Yet what does this twit post? Read what he says again..

    R&R time is not for rest & relaxation but "work". Damn but that is one hell of a fubar attitude.
    Forfeiture of individuality - you bring nothing special to 'the blob" in nullsec...
    No small fighting - only blobs is how things should be.

    I suppose a lot has changed since the old days but I don't think even a large portion of nullsec would care for the ideas he expressed.

    And folks wonder why many refuse to go to null these days - to give up their personalities to a hoard mentality and find themselves not "gaming" but "working" at it ? Oh yeah, that sounds like such a very attractive place to go!!!

    Is his post a recruiting post "in drag" for highsec?

    "Highsec - where you can be an individual. Where you can relax and play EVE as a game. Where INDIVIDUALS and SMALL GANGS operate daily to accomplish whatever tasks they set for themselves!" - with a null post "This must be STOPPED!!!"

    yeah, a really good laugh.


    QFT +1

    "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
    Haedonism Bot
    People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
    #66 - 2012-12-28 00:09:45 UTC
    This thread makes me tired. Why are you all so fascinated with hating each other's zones/styles of play. There is enough space out there for all of us. Nullsec is pretty much fine. Lowsec is pretty much fine. Highsec is pretty much fine. All of them can be tweaked and changed a bit to keep the game fresh, but none of them requires radical changes. Blobs are fine, small gangs are fine, solo is not the worst thing in the world. EVE is not made for any one of these play styles but for all of them.

    I've seen too many of these tear soaked moanfest threads lately. Stop whining and change the subject, already.X

    www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

    Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
    Ludi Burek
    Exit-Strategy
    Unchained Alliance
    #67 - 2012-12-28 00:11:55 UTC
    ElQuirko wrote:
    masternerdguy wrote:

  • I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.

    • Ladies and gentlemen, the reason why nobody values these posts.



    Actually, everyone is worthless until proven otherwise, in RL and eve. I am sorry you have not woken up yet to reality of human social structure and still think you mere existence makes you awesome. Reality is not always what you've been told. Participation medal winner Lol Oh wait, I apologize, most people are worth something... as consumers (targets) to those creating products and or content.

    Here is an nice video painting the reality: **** or walk
    Alavaria Fera
    GoonWaffe
    #68 - 2012-12-28 00:16:11 UTC
    SmilingVagrant wrote:
    Bane Necran wrote:
    Alavaria Fera wrote:
    Except a drake blob has usually 250+ players. And when there's multiple blobs, it's much larger.

    If only things were easier the smaller the group you're in, instead of the opposite being true.

    I can say ironically that the smaller a gang is the easier it is to manage/trust everyone is doing the right thing.

    Coordinating multiple blobs is so easy, a moron could do it.

    In other words, highsec should be able to beat us up easily since they clearly outnumber us.

    Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
    Mars Theran
    Foreign Interloper
    #69 - 2012-12-28 00:40:19 UTC
    Malphilos wrote:
    masternerdguy wrote:

    EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


    Really? The box I have says:

    "Conspire with thousands of others to bring the galaxy to its knees, or go it alone and share the glory with no one."

    I understand that's from well before your time, but you're still wrong.



    Pretty sure some more recent advertising covers that as well, in the pre-game trailer
    zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
    Katherine Jasmone
    #70 - 2012-12-28 00:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Jasmone
    masternerdguy wrote:
    FoxBird Freir wrote:
    You can be casual and play with rl friends in 0.0, just a whole lot easier to have a base of opperations for such gameplay in high. Eve IS casual, doesn't get much more casual than offline lvling and isk grinding(r&d/industry).


    I have no problem with casual gamers as long as they don't expect things to be balanced around them and they are actually casual.

    Like I said ice mining 14 hours a day isn't casual, playing the market all day isn't casual, and running craploads of alts in a mission / complex / anom / asteroid belt is NOT casual.


    Nope, it is another form of PvP and thus legitimate targets in one way or another. Gank, outstrip them of their resources or whatever works in order to give you an edge over your competition.

    I am a casual gamer, but I never play EVE in a casual manner. One rule applies to all regardless if you are in null, low or high. "Check your six!"

    Carebears, Nullbears and CCP, oh my.
    Katherine Jasmone
    #71 - 2012-12-28 00:50:16 UTC
    Zaknussem wrote:
    Kitty Bear wrote:
    the other problem you ahve is the players,
    if ccp focus on industry they complain about the lack of 'pew attention'
    if ccp focus on 'the pew' they complain about broken industry


    So true.

    CCP ignored the playerbase (at least) once and gave us Incarna. Players raged.
    CCP listened to the playerbase (at least) once and gave us Crucible. Players raged (once the high wore off).

    It's a lose-lose situation. Even Aesop wrote a fable about this: You can't ever please everyone.


    This gets my +1.

    Carebears, Nullbears and CCP, oh my.
    M1k3y Koontz
    Speaker for the Dead
    Stay Feral
    #72 - 2012-12-28 00:57:22 UTC
    You can't nerf highsec. Yet.

    Buff nullsec first, if you nerf highsec without providing a viable alternative for the manufacturing that needs to occur,, your just going to cause the prices of everything to go up.

    Nerf highsec, swing the nerfbat, but make nullsec a viable place for industry first, there needs to be decent refining IN THE SAME STATION as a large number of manufacturing slots.

    And htere needs to be better researching stations, the Caldari research station sucks, I've seen two caldari stations in nullsec, EVER. This after having lived in 4 different (sov) 0.0 regions and countless roams through at least dozen more.

    How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
    Randolph Rothstein
    whatever corp.
    #73 - 2012-12-28 01:17:07 UTC
    Ludi Burek wrote:

    Actually, everyone is worthless until proven otherwise, in RL and eve. I am sorry you have not woken up yet to reality of human social structure and still think you mere existence makes you awesome. Reality is not always what you've been told. Participation medal winner Lol Oh wait, I apologize, most people are worth something... as consumers (targets) to those creating products and or content.



    well actually your mere existence makes you awesome

    “The knowledge that the atoms that comprise life on earth - the atoms that make up the human body, are traceable to the crucibles that cooked light elements into heavy elements in their core under extreme temperatures and pressures. These stars- the high mass ones among them- went unstable in their later years- they collapsed and then exploded- scattering their enriched guts across the galaxy- guts made of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and all the fundamental ingredients of life itself. These ingredients become part of gas clouds that condense, collapse, form the next generation of solar systems- stars with orbiting planets. And those planets now have the ingredients for life itself. So that when I look up at the night sky, and I know that yes we are part of this universe, we are in this universe, but perhaps more important than both of those facts is that the universe is in us. When I reflect on that fact, I look up- many people feel small, cause their small and the universe is big. But I feel big because my atoms came from those stars.”

    BAM!!! you have been Neil deGrasse Tysoned in the face!!!!
    Sir Diablos
    Requiem Knowledge
    #74 - 2012-12-28 01:19:04 UTC
    masternerdguy wrote:
    In many of the defensive cries from hi seccers attempting to justify that hi sec is balanced I've been seeing a recurring theme: "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

    "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

    This is the epitome of the fundamental misunderstanding hi seccers have about the nature of this game. It is based on 3 incorrect assumptions.


    1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
    2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
    3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


    So what do you resort to? You resort to blaming the evil nullseccers for all your problems and talking about how unfair it is that you might lose, or that setting up your 5 man alliance in the middle of Deklein won't work, or that you got blobbed. Then when that doesn't work you cry about how important it is to be a "casual gamer".

    The definition of casual gamer seems to be pretty flexible these days. I didn't know grinding missions or ice mining for 14 hours a day was casual.

    Anyway, the nerf will happen. Summer is coming.


    Hmmm...tell me more about this conspiracy theory of yours.

    I sometimes have to wonder when the harshness of space was replaced with the soft foamy feel of a theme park.
    Surfin's PlunderBunny
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #75 - 2012-12-28 01:20:07 UTC
    Randolph Rothstein wrote:
    Ludi Burek wrote:

    Actually, everyone is worthless until proven otherwise, in RL and eve. I am sorry you have not woken up yet to reality of human social structure and still think you mere existence makes you awesome. Reality is not always what you've been told. Participation medal winner Lol Oh wait, I apologize, most people are worth something... as consumers (targets) to those creating products and or content.



    well actually your mere existence makes you awesome

    “The knowledge that the atoms that comprise life on earth - the atoms that make up the human body, are traceable to the crucibles that cooked light elements into heavy elements in their core under extreme temperatures and pressures. These stars- the high mass ones among them- went unstable in their later years- they collapsed and then exploded- scattering their enriched guts across the galaxy- guts made of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and all the fundamental ingredients of life itself. These ingredients become part of gas clouds that condense, collapse, form the next generation of solar systems- stars with orbiting planets. And those planets now have the ingredients for life itself. So that when I look up at the night sky, and I know that yes we are part of this universe, we are in this universe, but perhaps more important than both of those facts is that the universe is in us. When I reflect on that fact, I look up- many people feel small, cause their small and the universe is big. But I feel big because my atoms came from those stars.”

    BAM!!! you have been Neil deGrasse Tysoned in the face!!!!


    Tyson has argued that the concept of intelligent design towards the advance of scientific knowledge. <--- Haha no wonder he has an inflated sense of self importance

    "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

    Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
    Randolph Rothstein
    whatever corp.
    #76 - 2012-12-28 01:32:08 UTC
    Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


    Tyson has argued that the concept of intelligent design towards the advance of scientific knowledge. <--- Haha no wonder he has an inflated sense of self importance


    wow did you just quoted wikipedia? dont do that,there is missing context and this is wrong forum for debate about it
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #77 - 2012-12-28 01:37:27 UTC
    Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
    Tyson has argued that the concept of intelligent design towards the advance of scientific knowledge. <--- Haha no wonder he has an inflated sense of self importance

    What you said doesn't make any sense. It's not even a complete sentence.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    Alavaria Fera
    GoonWaffe
    #78 - 2012-12-28 01:40:05 UTC
    Randolph Rothstein wrote:
    Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


    Tyson has argued that the concept of intelligent design towards the advance of scientific knowledge. <--- Haha no wonder he has an inflated sense of self importance


    wow did you just quoted wikipedia? dont do that,there is missing context and this is wrong forum for debate about it

    Missing context is what GD is all about.

    Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
    Karrl Tian
    Doomheim
    #79 - 2012-12-28 01:52:28 UTC
    Vaju Enki wrote:
    Can't wait for the highsec rebalance expansion.


    Yeah the last two were great.
    Bohoba
    #80 - 2012-12-28 02:02:13 UTC
    Mars Theran wrote:
    masternerdguy wrote:
    In many of the defensive cries from hi seccers attempting to justify that hi sec is balanced I've been seeing a recurring theme: "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

    "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

    This is the epitome of the fundamental misunderstanding hi seccers have about the nature of this game. It is based on 3 incorrect assumptions.


    1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
    2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
    3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


    So what do you resort to? You resort to blaming the evil nullseccers for all your problems and talking about how unfair it is that you might lose, or that setting up your 5 man alliance in the middle of Deklein won't work, or that you got blobbed. Then when that doesn't work you cry about how important it is to be a "casual gamer".

    The definition of casual gamer seems to be pretty flexible these days. I didn't know grinding missions or ice mining for 14 hours a day was casual.

    Anyway, the nerf will happen. Summer is coming.


    You seem upset. Are you upset?


    Smile ..sorry, had to get that out there.

    ..anyway, I think the point of your post is lost on me. I don't mine at all really; much less 14 hours a day. I don't multi-box and run missions or PvE sites. I do know someone who does though, and they mine too; sometimes even at the same time. Anyone else, and I'd swear they were botting.

    I think you're missing the point. Nullsec crowd has no more earned the right to be special, than anyone else has. Not in general anyway. I got here first back in 03-05 doesn't qualify. You might have had to maintain it, but you never had to go through the hoops to acquire it that would be required now.

    Do you get it? Probably not, but let me attempt to explain. You never had significant opposition. There were no heavily entrenched forces with years of digging in and manipulating markets preventing your entry back then. There was just open space and roaming, exploring gangs, rather like lowsec is now.

    No, I wasn't there, but I understand what happens when you have yet to develop the resources or truly understand and have familiarity with the territory you are moving in to. There is no way you could have just waltzed in with SuperCaps and Carriers, and the game was much different then. The population is also much higher now, and experience has given the Nullsec crowd the ability to literally control that entire territory without much effort.

    You might think it is effort, but you'd be wrong. 10000 people working towards a common goal against hundreds is not effort.

    ..anyway, whatever. It isn't something I spend a great deal of time concerning myself with, but don't think that because people don't want to become a drone amongst your entrenched forces that they are considering themselves special or entitled to things without earning them.

    You'd be wrong.



    humm I remember no player made stations only pos's and conqurable stations no cap ships it was pos wars for sov and 4-6 hours to take a station or a pos with Bs's and whatnots :) gawd the amount of ammo used back then :)

    so I for one do know what it truly is like to cut my way into o.o taking space the hard way was up to 12 hours a day pew pew now every thing is done in 15 min with cap ship blobs and u move on to next system no sweet no tears just evaporate the systems with ease sometime a fight may arise but if a system is locked down properly all threat can be removed

    to easy still to railroad sov