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I Won't Build "Your Empire"
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masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-27 18:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
In many of the defensive cries from hi seccers attempting to justify that hi sec is balanced I've been seeing a recurring theme: "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

"I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

This is the epitome of the fundamental misunderstanding hi seccers have about the nature of this game. It is based on 3 incorrect assumptions.


  1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
  2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
  3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


So what do you resort to? You resort to blaming the evil nullseccers for all your problems and talking about how unfair it is that you might lose, or that setting up your 5 man alliance in the middle of Deklein won't work, or that you got blobbed. Then when that doesn't work you cry about how important it is to be a "casual gamer".

The definition of casual gamer seems to be pretty flexible these days. I didn't know grinding missions or ice mining for 14 hours a day was casual.

Anyway, the nerf will happen. Summer is coming.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#2 - 2012-12-27 18:52:48 UTC
Can't wait for the highsec rebalance expansion.

The Tears Must Flow
FoxBird Freir
Bloomberg Horizont
#3 - 2012-12-27 18:56:04 UTC
You can be casual and play with rl friends in 0.0, just a whole lot easier to have a base of opperations for such gameplay in high. Eve IS casual, doesn't get much more casual than offline lvling and isk grinding(r&d/industry).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#4 - 2012-12-27 18:56:38 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
In many of the defensive cries from hi seccers attempting to justify that hi sec is balanced I've been seeing a recurring theme: "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

"I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

This is the epitome of the fundamental misunderstanding hi seccers have about the nature of this game. It is based on 3 incorrect assumptions.


  1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
  2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
  3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


So what do you resort to? You resort to blaming the evil nullseccers for all your problems and talking about how unfair it is that you might lose, or that setting up your 5 man alliance in the middle of Deklein won't work, or that you got blobbed. Then when that doesn't work you cry about how important it is to be a "casual gamer".

The definition of casual gamer seems to be pretty flexible these days. I didn't know grinding missions or ice mining for 14 hours a day was casual.

Anyway, the nerf will happen. Summer is coming.

Blobs are an important part of "empires", as are blue lists. I'm glad to help build our oppressive regime that harvests so many tears ~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-12-27 18:57:25 UTC
FoxBird Freir wrote:
You can be casual and play with rl friends in 0.0, just a whole lot easier to have a base of opperations for such gameplay in high. Eve IS casual, doesn't get much more casual than offline lvling and isk grinding(r&d/industry).


I have no problem with casual gamers as long as they don't expect things to be balanced around them and they are actually casual.

Like I said ice mining 14 hours a day isn't casual, playing the market all day isn't casual, and running craploads of alts in a mission / complex / anom / asteroid belt is NOT casual.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#6 - 2012-12-27 18:58:59 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Can't wait for the highsec rebalance expansion.


same here,tho i doubt ill be playing in 2020
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-27 19:06:51 UTC
So maybe they actually do need a bunch more little dead end holes scattered here and there that won't fit a vast empire but are just right for an up and coming corp to dream about conquering only to later have to set their sights elsewhere because of their ultimate claustrophobia.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-27 19:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
masternerdguy wrote:


  1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
  2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
  3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.



Who says those are misconceptions or misunderstandings of whatever?

"I am special" is debatable, but I guess it works. When I was starting out, I was a CEO of my own corp to dodge the NPC corp tax, I did what I felt like, and it was all pretty special.

EVE WAS totally relaxing for me. I ran L4s in high-sec. Most of the time I was half-asleep doing it. And even now, with all the drone changes, I can still run them half-asleep and totally relaxed. And these days, I spin the button in FW in a semi-comatose state in the evening sometimes.

Small gang/solo? I spent the better part of my first 6 months in the game solo. And a year after that mostly small gang/solo. So why says the game isn't balanced for small gang/solo? There's tons of people who derive tons of fun from solo and small gang stuff. Case in point, just look at FW right now. Most of the folks there are deriving tons of fun from that.

Bottom line? I don't feel the "misconceptions" that you listed are misconceptions at all. They're a playstyle choice. One that is supported by the sandbox that is EVE. If you were correct, then that would mean EVE isn't a sandbox any more.

And in closing? I totally understand why people don't want to go to null. It's the precise same reason why I ALWAYS prefer to join a 60-man-or-less guild in any MMO, as opposed to a 600-man-or-more guild. I prefer being on the first-name basis and familiar with each guild member. As opposed to being a faceless, nameless Cog #27812 in a thousands-strong zerg with no personality or meaning.

It's a choice. Just like some people choose to mine, or be a pirate, you should respect that choice and not push your misconceptions onto other people.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#9 - 2012-12-27 19:10:20 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
In many of the defensive cries from hi seccers attempting to justify that hi sec is balanced I've been seeing a recurring theme: "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

"I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

This is the epitome of the fundamental misunderstanding hi seccers have about the nature of this game. It is based on 3 incorrect assumptions.


  1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
  2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
  3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


So what do you resort to? You resort to blaming the evil nullseccers for all your problems and talking about how unfair it is that you might lose, or that setting up your 5 man alliance in the middle of Deklein won't work, or that you got blobbed. Then when that doesn't work you cry about how important it is to be a "casual gamer".

The definition of casual gamer seems to be pretty flexible these days. I didn't know grinding missions or ice mining for 14 hours a day was casual.

Anyway, the nerf will happen. Summer is coming.


Oh god... so much bullshit

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#10 - 2012-12-27 19:15:58 UTC
Maire Gheren wrote:
So maybe they actually do need a bunch more little dead end holes scattered here and there that won't fit a vast empire but are just right for an up and coming corp to dream about conquering only to later have to set their sights elsewhere because of their ultimate claustrophobia.

Besides wormhole, you mean? Like that but with local?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-27 19:17:29 UTC
Ship design decisions are obviously made around small-gang play. Unfortunately that system doesn't scale up the same way in all cases. Why do you think null fleets are chock full of ships with resist bonuses and not local armor/shield rep bonuses? It seems like Null was just hastily tacked on, and the dev team have been slowly turning it into an actual part of the rest of the game since then. I don't fully understand all the animosity toward high-sec dwellers on this forum, though. It's like being angry at people that don't like peanut butter because it's your favorite food. As to whether null needs balancing....I can't really say. I've never had reason to go there, which is probably part of the problem.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#12 - 2012-12-27 19:18:35 UTC
You should lighten up. Try piracy. No commitment. No rules. No working for the man. ...and no "working" at all really.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-12-27 19:20:28 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Besides wormhole, you mean? Like that but with local?

Like wormhole, but with a stable address behind a jumpgate. I'm one of the "Local is bad" crowd. Wormholes seem like they're pretty popular with the people who want their own little empire. The experience isn't exactly the same.
Jenavee De'amore
New LIfe corp
#14 - 2012-12-27 19:24:33 UTC
Again I don't think nerfing hisec is the answer to your prayers your looking for o.O alot of people will just unsub and that's about the jist of it....

Maybe if large null sec alliances started looking at themselves and thought how could we make our territories more appealing to attract activity in the form of industrialists etc. More industry would encourage production and would stock up empty stations where the average PVP'er could buy their ships, ammo, mods etc... This would then encourage more PVP encounters that everyone craves if not just general activity in these empty null sec systems!! I'm obviously just hypothesising, it's up to these players to do something off their own backs to provide solutions. Using the old chessnut 'nerf hisec' is just wearing a little thin if not boring!!

It's not the players in hisec that are at fault but the players that already live in nullsec who are at fault....

Jena o/
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#15 - 2012-12-27 19:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
masternerdguy wrote:
In many of the defensive cries from hi seccers attempting to justify that hi sec is balanced I've been seeing a recurring theme: "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

"I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

This is the epitome of the fundamental misunderstanding hi seccers have about the nature of this game. It is based on 3 incorrect assumptions.


  1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
  2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
  3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


So what do you resort to? You resort to blaming the evil nullseccers for all your problems and talking about how unfair it is that you might lose, or that setting up your 5 man alliance in the middle of Deklein won't work, or that you got blobbed. Then when that doesn't work you cry about how important it is to be a "casual gamer".

The definition of casual gamer seems to be pretty flexible these days. I didn't know grinding missions or ice mining for 14 hours a day was casual.

Anyway, the nerf will happen. Summer is coming.


get a life Shocked
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-12-27 19:31:21 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


get a life freak


What an intelligent and fascinating retort.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#17 - 2012-12-27 19:33:03 UTC
Maire Gheren wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Besides wormhole, you mean? Like that but with local?

Like wormhole, but with a stable address behind a jumpgate. I'm one of the "Local is bad" crowd. Wormholes seem like they're pretty popular with the people who want their own little empire. The experience isn't exactly the same.

Honestly the problem is that if so a blob will burn down your home eventually. If only because boat saw a structure and had a fleet of bored drakes.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#18 - 2012-12-27 19:33:09 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


get a life freak


What an intelligent and fascinating retort.


Roll
Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
#19 - 2012-12-27 19:34:33 UTC
Overall I will give you a 3/10.

Glad you are a happy little slave. :)
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#20 - 2012-12-27 19:50:24 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
In many of the defensive cries from hi seccers attempting to justify that hi sec is balanced I've been seeing a recurring theme: "I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

"I won't go to nullsec because I don't want to help build your empire. I want to build one with my RL friends."

This is the epitome of the fundamental misunderstanding hi seccers have about the nature of this game. It is based on 3 incorrect assumptions.


  1. I Am Special - Nobody is special. Everyone is a worthless until proven otherwise. Your value is solely what you bring to the community.
  2. EVE is Relaxing - EVE has never been relaxing. It has been about hard work and commitment. You might have fun, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
  3. EVE is About Small Gang / Solo - EVE has never been balanced around small gang or solo, and this has never been pushed by any of the advertising. In fact the opposite is pushed.


So what do you resort to? You resort to blaming the evil nullseccers for all your problems and talking about how unfair it is that you might lose, or that setting up your 5 man alliance in the middle of Deklein won't work, or that you got blobbed. Then when that doesn't work you cry about how important it is to be a "casual gamer".

The definition of casual gamer seems to be pretty flexible these days. I didn't know grinding missions or ice mining for 14 hours a day was casual.

Anyway, the nerf will happen. Summer is coming.


I said it before I'll say it again, if CCP believe's that making hi sec worthless and a grief fest then go for it, money talks, if they lose clients because of it then so be it, if they don't fine.

You say your worth is based on what you bring to the community, really? How'bout their subscription, keeps CCP alive for the community, miners, industrialist, missioners, traders, PVP'ers, PVE'ers all add to the isk flow, no one entity makes eve work.

Everyone comes to eve for their own reasons including relaxing why should relaxation be what you define it to be?

Anyway this is such a nonsense.
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