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A Bittervet's Perspective on Nullsec

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#161 - 2012-12-27 05:38:22 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
we are arguing in circles

you can not nerf having friends, all you can do is provide content for small groups. myself and others have already listed some examples

No, must nerf having friends because of blobbers and blue lists, these are killing eve. Why can't you understand ?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2012-12-27 06:18:36 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Yes the area in general is there are some areas (not goonswarm) where a section 3-4 systems wide is unused, as to xcbk-x it is still only used to go through as you can not do much activity without killing something.


What do you mean "not goonswarm"? All the systems in that area are owned by GSF.

Oh, and no one goes through xcbk-x for anything. Sometimes these out of the way systems are great for other purposes. And part of that they suck for other uses. That system only has 4 belts, so trying to rat or mine that system heavily to put in upgrades is near impossible.

Actually when I said area in general I was referring to Null.

4 belts is actually a reasonable number of man hours to mine out. But yes you are right the amount of hours requires of usage to get and maintain sov would need to be modified as a base value per system.



Or, you just end up going to some place that has more belts or what ever it takes to get to get the activity rolling for the upgrades. Hint, xcbk-x is very close to several system with both ratting and mining upgrades. Those that want to chew on spod with the hope of getting another batch of ABC's already have places to do it. The biggest impediment to mining in null right now is that you can make just as much on highsec ores, and arguably more since the mining buff curtailed most of the ganking. Seriously, the biggest complaint from highsec miners is possibly gettign bumped by James315's friends, if you happen to be in a few parts of Caldari space.

Crappy systems are a reality in Eve. And most people realize that making every system totally awesome, or even upgraded to be totally awesome, would also have downsides. If sov was tied strictly to usage, you would see powerful alliances cherry pick the best systems, and just be glad to not have to pay sov bills on the others. Up and coming corps that want to pick up those "unused" systems are never going to really worry about some group like GSF dropping supers on them. They'll fail because they can only grab the crappy systems and the small-gang PvP'ers will make life miserable even without the hotdrops.

It is one thing to deal with roams and gankers and afk cloakers when you have a system with tech moons, good true-sec, crokite in the betls, plasma and storm planets, and overall easy to upgrade. It's another if the moons just pay for fuel cost, bad true-sec, few belts that are no better than highsec ores, few and lower bounty rats, and a bunch of gas and barren planets.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-12-27 07:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:



Or, you just end up going to some place that has more belts or what ever it takes to get to get the activity rolling for the upgrades. Hint, xcbk-x is very close to several system with both ratting and mining upgrades. Those that want to chew on spod with the hope of getting another batch of ABC's already have places to do it. The biggest impediment to mining in null right now is that you can make just as much on highsec ores, and arguably more since the mining buff curtailed most of the ganking. Seriously, the biggest complaint from highsec miners is possibly gettign bumped by James315's friends, if you happen to be in a few parts of Caldari space.

Crappy systems are a reality in Eve. And most people realize that making every system totally awesome, or even upgraded to be totally awesome, would also have downsides. If sov was tied strictly to usage, you would see powerful alliances cherry pick the best systems, and just be glad to not have to pay sov bills on the others. Up and coming corps that want to pick up those "unused" systems are never going to really worry about some group like GSF dropping supers on them. They'll fail because they can only grab the crappy systems and the small-gang PvP'ers will make life miserable even without the hotdrops.

It is one thing to deal with roams and gankers and afk cloakers when you have a system with tech moons, good true-sec, crokite in the betls, plasma and storm planets, and overall easy to upgrade. It's another if the moons just pay for fuel cost, bad true-sec, few belts that are no better than highsec ores, few and lower bounty rats, and a bunch of gas and barren planets.


Make some areas utter **** and scale it up as you get farther from high to places that are fuckin awesome.

Problem then is who is going to join an alliance that owns **** space when you can farm the best space.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Frying Doom
#164 - 2012-12-27 08:14:08 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Yes the area in general is there are some areas (not goonswarm) where a section 3-4 systems wide is unused, as to xcbk-x it is still only used to go through as you can not do much activity without killing something.


What do you mean "not goonswarm"? All the systems in that area are owned by GSF.

Oh, and no one goes through xcbk-x for anything. Sometimes these out of the way systems are great for other purposes. And part of that they suck for other uses. That system only has 4 belts, so trying to rat or mine that system heavily to put in upgrades is near impossible.

Actually when I said area in general I was referring to Null.

4 belts is actually a reasonable number of man hours to mine out. But yes you are right the amount of hours requires of usage to get and maintain sov would need to be modified as a base value per system.



Or, you just end up going to some place that has more belts or what ever it takes to get to get the activity rolling for the upgrades. Hint, xcbk-x is very close to several system with both ratting and mining upgrades. Those that want to chew on spod with the hope of getting another batch of ABC's already have places to do it. The biggest impediment to mining in null right now is that you can make just as much on highsec ores, and arguably more since the mining buff curtailed most of the ganking. Seriously, the biggest complaint from highsec miners is possibly gettign bumped by James315's friends, if you happen to be in a few parts of Caldari space.

Crappy systems are a reality in Eve. And most people realize that making every system totally awesome, or even upgraded to be totally awesome, would also have downsides. If sov was tied strictly to usage, you would see powerful alliances cherry pick the best systems, and just be glad to not have to pay sov bills on the others. Up and coming corps that want to pick up those "unused" systems are never going to really worry about some group like GSF dropping supers on them. They'll fail because they can only grab the crappy systems and the small-gang PvP'ers will make life miserable even without the hotdrops.

It is one thing to deal with roams and gankers and afk cloakers when you have a system with tech moons, good true-sec, crokite in the betls, plasma and storm planets, and overall easy to upgrade. It's another if the moons just pay for fuel cost, bad true-sec, few belts that are no better than highsec ores, few and lower bounty rats, and a bunch of gas and barren planets.

Your statement there almost looks like a "If you don't join a major alliance don't bother statement", which again leads to the if Null is so screwed why not just get rid of it.

But I think you would find it a harder exercise for larger alliances to ensure that all the space they claim, crappy or not is being used, while smaller alliance holding just a few systems would be easier as they only have a couple to monitor.

And yes they will get super hot dropped, I had it happen to me in NPC Null, kind of a fact of life no matter where you are in Null.

As to cherry picking, yes they would but they do that now and take the crappier space as well, so at least if they cherry pick there will be systems left over.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#165 - 2012-12-27 08:44:49 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Crappy systems are a reality in Eve. And most people realize that making every system totally awesome, or even upgraded to be totally awesome, would also have downsides. If sov was tied strictly to usage, you would see powerful alliances cherry pick the best systems, and just be glad to not have to pay sov bills on the others. Up and coming corps that want to pick up those "unused" systems are never going to really worry about some group like GSF dropping supers on them. They'll fail because they can only grab the crappy systems and the small-gang PvP'ers will make life miserable even without the hotdrops.

It is one thing to deal with roams and gankers and afk cloakers when you have a system with tech moons, good true-sec, crokite in the betls, plasma and storm planets, and overall easy to upgrade. It's another if the moons just pay for fuel cost, bad true-sec, few belts that are no better than highsec ores, few and lower bounty rats, and a bunch of gas and barren planets.

Well more likely plucky newbie alliances that pick up systems nearby are gonna end up assimilated somehow.

Or, you know, in HBC and ~accidentally~ camping our JBs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-12-27 09:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Miri Amatonur
Mathrin wrote:
Miri Amatonur wrote:
I've read alot of posts here today that go along in my direction. There is not enough penalty for ever growing numbers may it be corporations, alliances, coalitions or fleet fights.
Smaller is better!


But this is eve. There is no plot protection. Smaller isnt better. 100 dies to 1000.


It's so because the game mechanics are that way. It doesn't have to stay this way for ever. It's a suggestion to CCP that it could work another way which could create alot of activity within 0.0.

Gilbaron wrote:

you can not nerf having friends, all you can do is provide content for small groups. myself and others have already listed some examples


Indeed that is needed. Thought that alot of activities in 0.0 don't require very large groups today (mining, ratting, plexing, PI ...).
At first small groups (lets say 300 to 500 characters) need tools to defend that space against the nomadic hordes of super alliances and coalitions of today.

Alavaria Fera wrote:

No, must nerf having friends because of blobbers and blue lists, these are killing eve. Why can't you understand ?


Do you really know all your "friends" within Goonswarm Federation? Nearly 9000 characters the equivalent of a small town.
Do you know all your "friends" within GoonWaffe? Nearly 4000 characters which is still alot.

You must spend all your time keeping in touch with them.
If you ask me, i highly doubt that you really know 25% of them in the sense of friend.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#167 - 2012-12-27 09:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Miri Amatonur wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

No, must nerf having friends because of blobbers and blue lists, these are killing eve. Why can't you understand ?


Do you really know all your "friends" within Goonswarm Federation? Nearly 9000 characters the equivalent of a small town.
Do you know all your "friends" within GoonWaffe? Nearly 4000 characters which is still alot.

You must spend all your time keeping in touch with them.
If you ask me, i highly doubt that you really know 25% of them in the sense of friend.

I don't know every player's cyno alt, no. But thankfully, we're all able to cooperate and have fun shooting structures with the help of some boat stories.

I know, you jealous we have fun. Sorry.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2012-12-27 11:24:49 UTC
The way nullsec is now is a result of player controled content

the players made the blob to adapt to enemys
the players made coalitions to adapt to enemys
the players adapted the sov to meet they own needs

0.0 is just moon warfare or evicting for lulz/power trip

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-12-27 11:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Miri Amatonur
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Miri Amatonur wrote:
(...)
If you ask me, i highly doubt that you really know 25% of them in the sense of friend.

I don't know every player's cyno alt, no. But thankfully, we're all able to cooperate and have fun shooting structures with the help of some boat stories.

I know, you jealous we have fun. Sorry.


Intersting that i don't read anything about friends in your answer anymore. It's a huge mob that cooperates. Most of them faceless and anonymous to you.
What you deem fun is not my concern at the moment.

psycho freak wrote:

The way nullsec is now is a result of player controled content

the players made the blob to adapt to enemys
the players made coalitions to adapt to enemys
the players adapted the sov to meet they own needs

0.0 is just moon warfare or evicting for lulz/power trip


Yeah so true. It's a player made problem on the basis of the current game mechanics. A change of the game mechanics could release us from that cycle.
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#170 - 2012-12-27 14:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Skellington
Tough crowd tonight, lol :)

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2012-12-27 17:33:16 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
I've been playing since December 2007, so basically the start of 2008. I got into EVE at the Trinity expansion and was instantly hooked on the ideas the game presented.


  • Non consensual open world pvp
  • World Building / Empire Building
  • Offline Leveling


I was writing my life story about all the alliances I've been in since 2008, but then I realized it was kind of a long winded rant that wasn't going anywhere. Instead I want to offer you my perspective on what nullsec used to be, and what it is now.

Then (2008-2010)
Nullsec used to be several medium sized alliances competing for resources and space against each other, they would form temporary coalitions to defeat a common enemy but those would dissolve quite fast and the next era of nullsec sov wars would begin.
example: Providence Holders, GBC, Northern Coalition

couldn't make it past this part, sorry

hold on to be fair i'll try again

Quote:
There were few supercapitals and the Titan had the classic doomsday, which was ok because Titans were rare

lol who am i kidding?
flakeys
Doomheim
#172 - 2012-12-27 17:39:23 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
so basically the start of 2008.




Bitter yes , vet NOPE Lol

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#173 - 2012-12-27 18:34:29 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Quote:
There were few supercapitals and the Titan had the classic doomsday, which was ok because Titans were rare

lol who am i kidding?

CCP was right, titans were rare.

But then blobs happened Blobs... of titans.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Anndy
The Evocati
#174 - 2012-12-27 20:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Anndy
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Quote:
There were few supercapitals and the Titan had the classic doomsday, which was ok because Titans were rare

lol who am i kidding?

CCP was right, titans were rare.

But then blobs happened Blobs... of titans.


actually kinda funny really the titan and original DD were meant to stop blobs now they have become part of the blob
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#175 - 2012-12-27 21:03:19 UTC
Anndy wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Quote:
There were few supercapitals and the Titan had the classic doomsday, which was ok because Titans were rare

lol who am i kidding?

CCP was right, titans were rare.

But then blobs happened Blobs... of titans.

actually kinda funny really the titan and original DD were meant to stop blobs now they have become part of the blob

It was pretty much inevitable.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Anndy
The Evocati
#176 - 2012-12-27 21:27:38 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It was pretty much inevitable.


suppose we can thank BoB for that

biggest problem is that supers just dont die often enough, i'd like to see them seriously lower their tanking ability but also really cut the price, maybe just have like double a carriers tank for moms but lower the cost to 5 bill then a titan could be say 4x a carriers tank with a cost of around 10 bill

that will make sure they die as people wont be as scared to lose them plus smaller alliances could afford them which will allow them to actually attempt to fight the blob
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#177 - 2012-12-28 00:16:58 UTC
Anndy wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It was pretty much inevitable.


suppose we can thank BoB for that

biggest problem is that supers just dont die often enough, i'd like to see them seriously lower their tanking ability but also really cut the price, maybe just have like double a carriers tank for moms but lower the cost to 5 bill then a titan could be say 4x a carriers tank with a cost of around 10 bill

that will make sure they die as people wont be as scared to lose them plus smaller alliances could afford them which will allow them to actually attempt to fight the blob

Yeah, maybe. Will be pretty amusing to see the first 200 titan 50 supercarrier fleet though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#178 - 2012-12-28 00:23:55 UTC
Why not have the upgrade bands only repopulate at downtime or more?
Or better have the sites respawn at 24 hours plus change.
This way if you want more sites you have to use more systems.
Xtreem
Knockaround Guys Inc.
#179 - 2012-12-28 00:24:13 UTC
Can you be a bittervet with the statement "I've been playing since December 2007, so basically the start of 2008"

2005 is as low as i can go to be a bittervet.
Katherine Jasmone
#180 - 2012-12-28 00:54:04 UTC
Anndy wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Anndy wrote:
aside from moon goo null is fine, just need to wait for the coalitions to implode and split into small alliances

Why should they?


happens to pretty much every alliance eventually, theres always internal issues which have the potential to blow up and eventually cause an alliance to fall apart, should be even worse with these massive coalitions


Remove the alliance mechanic from the game. It kills the competitiveness and fosters inertia/mass.

Carebears, Nullbears and CCP, oh my.