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Null is Broken, Hisec working as intended.

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Kamden Line
Sovereign Citizen and other Tax Evasion Schemes
#21 - 2012-12-27 07:34:47 UTC
I love how People have departed from an attitude of 'HTFU' to 'Ultima Online was the best game ever'.

PVP action keeps a game healthy. Spending hours kills rats to get better gear to kill more rats is frankly boring as ****. If that's really the way high sec players want to see the game, World of Warcraft is thatta way -->.

Ultimately, there needs to be a rebalance - high sec needs to be worth less, but the NAP fests of the current nulsec politics also need to stop happening. I should know, I happen to be in the middle of one.

CCP recongizes this and understand the need for a rebalance and various other fixes, and so does the CSM. But considering the comments of the current CSM (the last CSM minutes reminded me of a session of the American House of Reps.), I'm very concerned with execution. I'm hoping that whatever nerf or buff that is put in place isn't utterly nutso like Faction Warfare was/is (orbit to make 200 mil/hour).

Also, the trend of discouraging high sec ganking and 'PVP' Lol is disheartening. If CCP has truly abadoned the ways of the HTFU, then this game is finished and no amount of General discussion threadnaughts will change that. The tendency for this game to eliminate the stupid and elevate the smart is what sets it apart from other MMOs - if CCP eliminates that, then other upcoming MMOs like Star Citizen will quickly eat EVE-Os market share and set in motion the inevitable death slide of player population.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-27 07:37:13 UTC
Rain6635 wrote:
it should be that high sec missions are run just for the standings, so pilots can travel through unmolested on their way back to jita. no LP or ISK rewards and bonus.

AND standings degrade over time... so you have to return to repair standings with missions periodically.

like going to the DMV or filing taxes, something that everyone has to do.


uh, what

people run missions for ISK and LP, not for standings

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#23 - 2012-12-27 07:37:38 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Sure this has to be done carefully though, imprudently nerf hisec mining for example, and inflation will skyrocket, and people will whine about plex prices going to a Billion possibly.


That's not what would happen.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Torakenat
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-12-27 07:55:32 UTC
Andski wrote:

uh, what

people run missions for ISK and LP, not for standings


Well, in order to get to lvl 3, 4, etc you have to get the standing to run for decent isk/lp.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-12-27 07:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Peter Raptor wrote:

It is Null sec that needs to be Buffed somehow, cos if you nerf the daylights outta High sec, people will have little choice but to

leave, and we'll get the same lousy player numbers as during the last unending Hulkaggeddon before the Mining Barge Buff.

The problem is that many aspects of highsec are offered in near infinite amount and without cost. Adjusting aspects of nullsec to be more appealing then things that are free, extremely convenient and wholly without risk would be far more game breaking then merely downgrading specific highsec services. If there was a way to achieve this without touching highsec I would be entirely for it since it would create much less fuss.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-12-27 08:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Torakenat wrote:
You can't force someone to play the way you want to play.

However, you can entice players to play like you.

Hard to do when null isn't that enticing to begin with.

Torakenat wrote:
However, if you buff null sec and implement more content to give players more of a reason to leave hi sec you might have a better chance in getting a higher population in null.

When highsec has perfect manufacturing and refining (for those with appropriate skills and standings of course) there's no buff you can do in nullsec that will make it enticing enough to leave highsec without completely breaking the game. Highsec needs a nerf for this to be possible.

Torakenat wrote:
Why don't we have a persistent ongoing arena system. Where you can queue up in your pos or npc dock? Like an 8 pilot/16 pilot random setup? Or a pre-made fleet 8 pilot/16pilot arena teams?

Because it's a dumb idea?

Torakenat wrote:
Why don't we have generic mission givers in pos's in null?

Yeah, mission agents, that's what we need!

Torakenat wrote:
Can we make null a little more new player friendly? Hell my corp/alliance is a null sec corp/alliance and if it wasn't for them holding my hand I would happily stay in hi sec.

The only reason null isn't new player friendly is because there's no CONCORD here and there are these things called bubbles and cynos, both of which mean you need to have a bit better understanding of game mechanics in order to survive and make a living.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#27 - 2012-12-27 08:02:10 UTC
Rain6635 wrote:
it should be that high sec missions are run just for the standings, so pilots can travel through unmolested on their way back to jita. no LP or ISK rewards and bonus.

AND standings degrade over time... so you have to return to repair standings with missions periodically.

like going to the DMV or filing taxes, something that everyone has to do.


That would be frickin awful; it's a good thing you're not a Dev here.
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Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-12-27 08:20:39 UTC
Torakenat wrote:
However, if you buff null sec and implement more content to give players more of a reason to leave hi sec you might have a better chance in getting a higher population in null.

Why don't we have a persistent ongoing arena system. Where you can queue up in your pos or npc dock? Like an 8 pilot/16 pilot random setup? Or a pre-made fleet 8 pilot/16pilot arena teams?

Why don't we have generic mission givers in pos's in null?

Is it possible to give certain systems a buff for say mining yield. While mining in this system you get X amount percentage increase in yield?

1. As many has said before on various different threads, you can't buff nullsec without prior nerf to hisec.
2. Eve is a sandbox, an open world MMO where almost every aspect/activity you do, be it pvp or pve can and should allow people to go in and crash your party. Arena is an exclusive closed instance, it doesn't fit in a sandbox concept and it never will.
3. No.
4. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ore_Prospecting_Array_5

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#29 - 2012-12-27 08:32:53 UTC
^ You can just overly buff null sec, without nerfing hi sec first.

Of course that will probably act as a nerf to hi sec. But there would be no initial nerf first.

Also if this game is a sandbox, why nerf hi sec, or buff null then?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#30 - 2012-12-27 08:37:53 UTC
raskonalkov wrote:
^ You can just overly buff null sec, without nerfing hi sec first.

Of course that will probably act as a nerf to hi sec. But there would be no initial nerf first.

Also if this game is a sandbox, why nerf hi sec, or buff null then?

Yeah, it's a sandbox, stupidly imbalanced titans were fine, sheesh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2012-12-27 08:39:22 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Torakenat wrote:
Can we make null a little more new player friendly? Hell my corp/alliance is a null sec corp/alliance and if it wasn't for them holding my hand I would happily stay in hi sec.

The only reason null isn't new player friendly is because there's no CONCORD here and there are these things called bubbles and cynos, both of which mean you need to have a bit better understanding of game mechanics in order to survive and make a living.

Well yeah, newbies are so cute though. Like when they get bubbles in the intro op, it's like "why can't I warp anymore".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#32 - 2012-12-27 08:41:12 UTC
Keep on beating the dead horse. Nerfing high-sec will only result in lower player numbers for EVE. It won't bring more players to Null, period.

People who don't want to PvP will rather leave the game than be forced to PvP.

However, buffing Null and giving (a lot) more toys in that particular sandbox would be a good start to make Null more interesting. Hell, maybe it would get interesting enough that 90% of the corps living there wouldn't gank everyone and anyone entering null just for the momentarily break from boredom.

Currently, null is the gankfest hell-hole it is just because most of the players living there have nothing better to do to pass their time.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#33 - 2012-12-27 08:51:10 UTC
Kamden Line wrote:
I love how People have departed from an attitude of 'HTFU' to 'Ultima Online was the best game ever'.

PVP action keeps a game healthy. Spending hours kills rats to get better gear to kill more rats is frankly boring as ****. If that's really the way high sec players want to see the game, World of Warcraft is thatta way -->.


That's a great attitude there. Ultima Online's greatest strength was that there were so many different paths you could take. Many of them completely doable with zero PvP experience.

You would be surprised how many people enjoy grinding missions, even if you find it mind numbingly boring. If all of them would leave EVE for WoW, you would be PvPing the same three other players still remaining quite soon.

CCP will need to start adding meaningful content in their game soon. Tweaks and fixes are only going to keep people playing a while. And by content I mean sandbox content. Tools for the players to create their own content.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-12-27 08:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Thomas Gore wrote:
That's a great attitude there. Ultima Online's greatest strength was that there were so many different paths you could take. Many of them completely doable with zero PvP experience.

Which is exactly what EVE should NOT be.
Reading this makes me angry.

Thomas Gore wrote:
CCP will need to start adding meaningful content in their game soon. Tweaks and fixes are only going to keep people playing a while. And by content I mean sandbox content. Tools for the players to create their own content.

"People enjoy doing missions" = missions are meaningful content, apparently.
No.


If I want to force you to PVP, I will, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. This is a PVP game.
The only thing you can do to prevent PVP in this game is not undock or buy anything on the market, ever.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-12-27 08:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
EI Digin wrote:
RAGE QU1T wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left

A lot of other space to do business in. High-sec should be left to new players and the little coddled children who can't handle conflict in a PvP game.


As I said elsewhere , many people play EVE to relax, manufacture stuff, hang out with friends, not to have an FC yelling at them for allegedly making the team lose a PVP match. If forced to PVP, many would rather leave.


Confirming, no one likes EMO raging FC's spamming alliance crying for more Logi's, furthermore people are tired of CTA online


So don't join an alliance that demands you to play on their terms?
and get blobbed by everyone and their dog, of live a clandestine life of trying to get something out of null and give up because hisec is easier.

thing is, every alliance, not only in null btw, demands you to play with their terms. difference is, some do it so well that you won't even notice.



let's be honest here. the reason why nullsec sucks is because there isn't enough good space for everybody. you put a 500-man alliance there, you either bend over or you get smashed by alliances 3-5 times your size.

so you need more people, more people means that you need more iskies to make them stay, and a whole region can't sustain 500 people at the same time. try to have 7 people ratting in a single nullsec, doing anoms and whatever and tell me how much isk per each person you get.

grunts look at hisec and see it easier there and they either go there or whine because it's "better".

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-12-27 08:57:55 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
and get blobbed by everyone and their dog, of live a clandestine life of trying to get something out of null and give up because hisec is easier.

thing is, every alliance, not only in null btw, demands you to play with their terms. difference is, some do it so well that you won't even notice.

Been in every alliance, have you?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#37 - 2012-12-27 09:00:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
and get blobbed by everyone and their dog, of live a clandestine life of trying to get something out of null and give up because hisec is easier.

thing is, every alliance, not only in null btw, demands you to play with their terms. difference is, some do it so well that you won't even notice.

Been in every alliance, have you?

Yes, you didn't notice, clearly.

How can anyone argue against this: "I'm right, you just don't know it".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#38 - 2012-12-27 09:01:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
raskonalkov wrote:
^ You can just overly buff null sec, without nerfing hi sec first.

Of course that will probably act as a nerf to hi sec. But there would be no initial nerf first.

Also if this game is a sandbox, why nerf hi sec, or buff null then?

Yeah, it's a sandbox, stupidly imbalanced titans were fine, sheesh.


I suppose by defining sandbox by not be able to crash parties. Overly imbalanced titans would hurt the sandbox, since they would be too hard to crash.

I would also say then, that titan blobs and any blob should be pretty much banned, since that makes the party hard to crash as well. Also characters with higher SP should be taken away since, that makes it harder to crash parties as well.

The sandbox might be a viable fun thing someday.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-12-27 09:01:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
and get blobbed by everyone and their dog, of live a clandestine life of trying to get something out of null and give up because hisec is easier.

thing is, every alliance, not only in null btw, demands you to play with their terms. difference is, some do it so well that you won't even notice.

Been in every alliance, have you?

I don't know. have I? I'm just a grunt. been playing this game for over 9 years and people keep complaining about the very same issue since 2003, but hey. I'm just a grunt.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-12-27 09:02:11 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Yes, you didn't notice, clearly.

How can anyone argue against this: "I'm right, you just don't know it".


if I was right, I would say so.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right