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NPC Corps - Time for a change?
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#61 - 2012-12-25 23:01:50 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
You put a 500M bounty in freighter pilot "x", gank him with yer fellah's and you're just getting back 20% of that bounty, bad operation is bad.

Just go there and gank, problem solved.

That's not how bounty works.

If you pay yourself some of the money you gave away, that's profit?

O...k...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-12-25 23:03:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
You put a 500M bounty in freighter pilot "x", gank him with yer fellah's and you're just getting back 20% of that bounty, bad operation is bad.

Just go there and gank, problem solved.

That's not how bounty works.

If you pay yourself some of the money you gave away, that's profit?

O...k...

Of course not, I'm just saying he's got an important detail wrong. The overall meaning is the same.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Toshiroma McDiesel
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-12-26 00:59:30 UTC
Umega wrote:


The majority of players in NPC corps are bot miners, bot traders, bot mission runners, and afk freight runners.

Anyone that strongly opposes negative changes to NPC corp hiding is a kingpin, or at the very least, utalizes above actions.



Sweet, I can play that game too!

The majority of null sec players are neckbeards that live in their momma's basement, posting furrie pics on 4chan while waiting for CTAs

Hey, That was fun Pirate


I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.
Pyre leFay
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-12-26 02:23:03 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Pyre leFay wrote:


Yet then groups of individuals, or even groups of alts would each make personal corps and so you could only ever wardec 1 at a time.
Which stems from a problem with the ease to create solo corps. Yet would it be bad to make them harder to create?



So get players out of npc corp but make it harder to make player corps? You've been drinking too much eggnog.


Its not so much as asking the question should it be done, but would it simply replace one problem for another? May as well wardec individuals for less then a whole corp in kind of a paid limited engagement no matter NPC corp or not.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-12-26 02:58:48 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Umega wrote:
(snipped...)

The majority of players in NPC corps are bot miners, bot traders, bot mission runners, and afk freight runners.

Anyone that strongly opposes negative changes to NPC corp hiding is a kingpin, or at the very least, utalizes above actions.

(snipped...)


/me raises hand - at least _I_ am not the majority of players in NPC corps...

Here Here


This is my very first character and will always be my main character.

I may be in NPC corp but I'm very active both in-game and in these forums, usually trying to be a helpful contributing member of this community.

When in-game, I usually have over 1/2 dozen different chat channels open at a time, including the NPC corp chat where I answer new player questions. In-game I receive numerous Eve Mails and private chat convo's at various times from lot's of players, mainly about my contribution 'The Plan'. I have also contributed quite a bit to the Evelopedia, both in creating pages and or adding missing info to existing pages.

Most of my in-game friends all belong to different player corps. At various times will fleet up to help each other. Yeah, I may be exempt from WarDec but it doesn't make me safe. About 1/2 dozen members of THE KULT MERCENARIES (thanks for the lesson) fulfilled a contract by taking the liberty (and security hit) to introduce themselves to me rather quickly in a 0.7 security system on 2011-09-04.

I don't just stay in high sec either, as an explorer I always chase down expeditions to last stage in low sec when available. I also spent a month solo playing cat and mouse (I was the mouse) with the Russians in Great Wildlands which taught me a lot, another time I was a forward scout helping a new corp's convoy take a POS and structures into a null sec system. The list goes on.....

Since I am in NPC corp, I can't have my own POS which means I have to deal with long wait times for nearby research / copy slots in high sec. Now if I don't want to wait, and I usually don't, I have to search through a lot of low sec stations for a short wait time which usually ends up being a long distance away from my base of operations.

For a long time can flippers would go after NPC corp members in high security knowing full well the NPC corp member could not get help from fellow corpmates. Too bad the new Crimewatch mechanic has changed that now.

I could go on and on but quite frankly, I'm tired of seeing threads like this constantly being posted by people trying to blame their problems on NPC corps. Give it a rest already. If CCP is fool enough to listen and takes away my freedom of choice in how I want to play this game, I'll just take my money and spend it on another game. One thing is for sure, I won't be the only one doing that.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#66 - 2012-12-26 05:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:
Umega wrote:


The majority of players in NPC corps are bot miners, bot traders, bot mission runners, and afk freight runners.

Anyone that strongly opposes negative changes to NPC corp hiding is a kingpin, or at the very least, utalizes above actions.



Sweet, I can play that game too!

The majority of null sec players are neckbeards that live in their momma's basement, posting furrie pics on 4chan while waiting for CTAs

Hey, That was fun Pirate





ahh the joys of generalization.....they work both ways don't they lol.



Some people don't dig the communal aspect of the game. I can relate. 0.0 burnout here. grass ain't so green. Yay, save the csaa.......again. Nothings says omfg this is what eve is all about like saving some other person's isk (or RTM) maker.

hate the NPC corp empire bear that much, gank em what I say usually. Strange world where I can respect an honest ganker over an empire war dec bear. A ganker at least takes his chances. Will the right loot drop to make this gank worth it? Sometimes they make out good, sometimes they don't. Hell for added difficulty they give themselves a time limit. Dead ship in a set amount of time or concord comes by and says game over.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#67 - 2012-12-26 06:21:26 UTC
I don't see anything wrong with NPC Corporations to be honest, I don't use them myself. In regards to dealing with botters that is what my Suicide alt is for. Fact is though everyone needs a refuge in order to consolidate power and get back on their feet . NPC Corps also provide players with the option of avoiding griefing once they are completely kicked down, otherwise we could literally hunt someone until they quit the game.

Incentive to leave an NPC Corporation? Plenty.

  1. Access to using POS Structures and Their Benefits
  2. Ability to war dec other player corporations
  3. Ease of management
  4. Avoid the flat tax rate and have it go directly to a goal of your new corporations choosing
  5. Ability to own sovereignty and share inventory via Corp Hangars
  6. Freebies and Knowledge from other more established players
  7. The ability to develop and identity not just for your character but their organization


There is probably much more out there. Although I've wanted to pod some NPC corp members into oblivion, I don't see the issue really. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't effect my game play.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-12-26 07:12:51 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with NPC Corporations to be honest, I don't use them myself. In regards to dealing with botters that is what my Suicide alt is for. Fact is though everyone needs a refuge in order to consolidate power and get back on their feet . NPC Corps also provide players with the option of avoiding griefing once they are completely kicked down, otherwise we could literally hunt someone until they quit the game.

Incentive to leave an NPC Corporation? Plenty.

  1. Access to using POS Structures and Their Benefits
  2. Ability to war dec other player corporations
  3. Ease of management
  4. Avoid the flat tax rate and have it go directly to a goal of your new corporations choosing
  5. Ability to own sovereignty and share inventory via Corp Hangars
  6. Freebies and Knowledge from other more established players
  7. The ability to develop and identity not just for your character but their organization


There is probably much more out there. Although I've wanted to pod some NPC corp members into oblivion, I don't see the issue really. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't effect my game play.






this basically. When not bitter and jaded I do enjoy my stints in 0.0. On an empire break, again, and man tbh the hiding empire bears are already punishing themselves imo. Living only to mine and run level 4's....ain't much of a game life. doing this crap willingly day after day with no hope for some fun, they are screwing themselves really. HAving billions in the wallet nice and all but damn....its in game money. Not like you can take it with you out of game, legally anyway lol. To each their own as always though.
Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis
#69 - 2012-12-26 10:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nur AlHuda
Full support for the idea. Currently NPC corps are heavily used to avoid several gaming mechanics and people put there characters specialy for that purpose. Unlimited mining with no taxes, trading, hauling , scouting and farming. In fact its more rewarding currently to avoid game mechanics and put char to npc corp. Since you get concord protection and only thing that can ever hurt npc corp member is suicide gank. So if we take this special attack away its guaranteed invulnerability. No isk is lost but more isk is created without any sort of risk. You can virtualy create a well tanked farm of ratters or miners without any fear of wardecs. Gankers can kill one of the ships but will never be able to kill more.due to concord.

*NPC companies should have 25% tax.
*JC prices would need to be adjusted.
*Podkilled members would need to respawn at NPC corp HQ only.
* NPC corp members would be taxed on mined ice, ore upon docking as in real corp.

The purpose is to make npc corporation standard mechanic not to use them as the tool to avoid consequences.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#70 - 2012-12-26 11:49:20 UTC
How about instead of any of these automatic punishmets.... people seem to love having the other guy hurt with no way to avoid it.
We just make NPC corps more interactive.

Every once in a while, you will get given a task.
The timer on this task starts the next time you log on.
The task depends on your skill points, and to some extent where those points are, lots in combat skills, get security type tasks, lots in mining/industry, industry type tasks.
No payment for these tasks, or maybe some LP, but no ISK at all. And a small standing boost if you do them.
If you fail to do them, you take a large standings hit, and your tax goes up by 1%.

If you have a higher tax rate, requests will come more often, to reflect the Corp owners getting more and more annoyed at your lack of participation in the affairs of the corp. And eventually other penalties if the tax rate gets high enough.

All of a sudden we have NPC corps feeling a little more Player Corp like, with tasks required. Which will make the transition to a Player Corp easier to take also.
Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis
#71 - 2012-12-26 12:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nur AlHuda
What punishments? there are corps out there who have 50% tax. There are corps who have 0% tax. Hell people can creatheir own private corps with 0% tax. People use npc corps as a free ridet hey are stated by ccp to serve only for transition period so there is clearly somethink wrong when npc corp can offer more bonuses then real corp.

60% of eve pop is living in highsec but only 15% of losses happen there guess why? Do you know how much isk is created by alts or farms with no isk sink aviable?
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#72 - 2012-12-26 19:04:57 UTC
Eraza wrote:
the problem here is that many people in npc corps dont see any advantages to gain by leaving.
quite a lot of them are in npc corps because they got into a war or three they didnt want to fight, and bailed into npc corps because they dont find it fun to be in a war

nerfing existing content will just make people angry, and more importantly, will probably not work all that well to the desired goal

to get people to leave, they have to see some potential gain by joining,
most npc corp people i talk to, DO NOT see that gain
they see player corps as added risk, with no extra gain
nasty nerfs wont really work because that will make people leave the game rather then the npc corp

aside from cowards, a lot of people are in npc corps because they dont have friends in player corps
what would really be needed, is if some new gameplay mechanic, would be only for player corps, for example, agent missions, that are not available to people in npc corps

something like special group missions, like a corporation, could accept a mission, and then the people in the corp had some objectives, which would mabey require more then one person to do

mabey make a corp lounge area for the stations, so to not be the only person you ever see in a station, you need to be in a player corp

things like that would help a lot more then taxes and restrictions i bet :)


I think it should make sense that if you're in a gallente npc corp you wouldn't be allowed to run missions for caldari or amarr agents. After all, aren't these empires at war with each other? This would not prevent npc corp players from enjoying eve (since it doesn't really matter in the long run who you run missions for) but if you wanted to say, move to Jita because of the market there, you would have to accept the risk of leaving your NPC corp to join a 'neutral' player corp, even if that corp is your own 1 man corp.
Stuhami
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-12-26 19:44:24 UTC


Well If you want to kill someone in Highsec, gank them.

Already doable without need to wardec. Be ready to spend enough isk to do it though, and even so not that much. That is risk versus reward. Highsec is not the biggest isk maker out there unless you grind missions and any industrialist can make a living anywhere, maybe even easier in null since there is less over all competition for station slots.

High-sec corporations and high-sec in general is there to protect citizens of new Eden from complete dominion by other entities large enough to make it impossible for people play if they so choose to. Already in null-sec, mega-corps and alliances make it somewhat improbable from the solo gamer to go about their day unless they where specialized in doing so. and even so it is their choice; as it is yours choosing to wardec whoever for whatever reason and complaining cause you can't.

High sec corporations aren't a free escape from wardec, they are a compromise; or have you ever seen anybody in a high sec corporation have a POS in low or null unless they have an alt with it's own corp that CAN get war-dec'd

Have you seen them with thousands of other players experiencing a unique battle with hundreds enemies bofore them and comrades beside them?

High -sec corporations are a compromise and it's not a free get out of jail card. Saying so means not looking at the bigger picture of the risk versus reward Sandbox of EVE ONLINE.
Tragot Gomndor
Three Sword Inc
#74 - 2012-12-26 23:39:12 UTC
worst thread ever, not even a new idea is stated... ccp, please close, thx

NONONONONONO TO CAPS IN HIGHSEC NO
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#75 - 2012-12-27 08:45:03 UTC
A simple way to discourage NPC corps is to put restrictions on them similar to trial accounts. Maybe not as severe but limit them to tech one stuff including modules used on ships AND when it comes to building/inventing. Blink
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#76 - 2012-12-27 18:28:38 UTC
I know its hard for some to accept, but there are lots and lots of people who play this game and have no desire to be randomly shot at with ovewhelming force.

However, its easy to see that the reason people stay in NPC corps is for the added safety . Being a bear isn't really about being risk adverse, its about risk management. To get people out of NPC corps you have to make player corps the safer option.

I would suggest that the corps of a given faction be in competition with eachother. Missions from ones own NPC corp should get a much improved payout. However: the missions given by the opposing NPC corps are the same. For instance Both corp a & b give the same pocket for Damsel, and a form of Wardec exists between those fleeted with the mission holders, and only within the pocket. Only one of the 2 players can complete and turn in the mission.

Missions are no longer safe, fleeting for missions is encouraged, pvp is encouraged, and you can avoid it all by making your own corp and running the risk of Wardec.

Mining is a tougher nut to crack, unless you do something silly like allow LP to purchase letters of Marque from the NPC corp for limited Wardec against their opposing competition. Say 10000 LP gets you a couple of hours and turns the competition into valid targets. Again, avoidable simply by joining a player corp.

Ideally you would get the ability to choose which NPC corp to join, and the newbie corps would not be subject to this competition, but at the end of 30 days you would be automatically given a choice of regular npc corp and dropped from the newbie corp.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#77 - 2012-12-27 18:40:39 UTC
So,
Mike Voidstar wrote:

However, its easy to see that the reason people stay in NPC corps is for the added safety . Being a bear isn't really about being risk adverse, its about risk management. To get people out of NPC corps you have to make player corps the safer option.

When you are out of your player corp you drop to the FW corp instead of the non-war NPC corp?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-12-27 18:52:26 UTC
Instead of crazy workaround solutions with questionable lore like taxing everything, just do the obvious, straightforward solution:

For 1 week or so, a new character can sit aroudn in an NPC training corp / "academy." At which point, they then "graduate" whether they like it or not, and get shifted to some other type of small NPC corp, or perhaps the game puts them automatically in their own one man corp with some generic numbering system name or whatever.

Point being, you don't have to incentivize them to leave. You can just kick them out with game coding.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#79 - 2012-12-27 21:01:17 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
So,
Mike Voidstar wrote:

However, its easy to see that the reason people stay in NPC corps is for the added safety . Being a bear isn't really about being risk adverse, its about risk management. To get people out of NPC corps you have to make player corps the safer option.

When you are out of your player corp you drop to the FW corp instead of the non-war NPC corp?

Yes. You still drop into Garound Investment or whatever, but now that corp has enemies, missions have competition, privateers can hunt them for a price, etc.

The only thing nerfed is the safety and security... If you want that you will have to form or join a player corp.
Jimmy Hawks
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-12-28 10:22:01 UTC
I don't think the problem is in the system. The Problem is among the Community. If you want to get people out of the Starter Corporations / NPC Corporations, then just offer them more than the NPC Corporation does.

I do not believe that increasing Taxes or a "nerf" is the right way. Higher taxes will not get people out of the NPC Corp. And if, they will probably make a One-Man Corporation. However, that's not really the desired effect either because in a One-Man Corp, people are not really part of the active community, while in an NPC Corp there is at least some activity and good (most of the time) socializing (at least in CAS).
Another option is: if the nerfs for NPC Corps get too nasty, people will leave. Not the Corporation but EVE Online all together.

Again, the problem is not the system, the problem is the Community. We all should accept that other Capsuleers have other ways to enjoy their time in New Eden. And for everyone there is also enough room for what they like to do.
PvPers that like the dirty gank have their Low-Sector. People that like the higher "Art-of-Space-War" and the politics have Null-Sector, adventurers have their vast Wormholes, and the Care Bears have their beloved High-Sector.

Sure, PvP is a core thing of EVE, but after all it's also a SANDBOX where people should be allowed to enjoy their Space-Life the way they wish to, not the way others want them to (for that mindset you may want to switch to a WoW-PvP Realm where it's narrow like that). Leave the "safe" (it's a lie anyway, isn't it?) NPC Corps to the Care Bears. They leave the Null-Sectors to you too and don't try to change it to their likes.

To many of us EVE Online is the Goddess of all MMOs. Because it's Community based, because it's difficult to learn (compared to other MMOs that is), it looks amazing, it has nearly endless possibilities and it grants us a freedom no other MMO offers.
We're one Community and we should stick a little bit more together for the sake of the survival of EVE Online. No need to destroy each others comfort zones.