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Building a better battleship.
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Qolde

Scrambled Eggs Inc.

Likes received: 193

#121 - 2012-12-21 21:22:03 UTC

Shanara As wrote:

too bad that these kind of threads turn into "show me yours i show you mine"-fitting evaluations.

its not the fitting that is the problem. it´s the fact that shows in almost every game where damage and defense are measured against each other.

take the classic roleplaing game for example: D&D (basic, way bach then).

lets say a giant has 20Hitpoints

a goblin has 2.

lets imagine the goblin attacks the giant (he´s hungry and desperate..)

i mean its a game and all but lets be honest: no way that a single goblin could ever stand a chance to kill a giant on his own.
(mosquito-elephant-scenario).

this is something that is just totally lacking in eve.

just increasing / decreasing dps/ehp will not help because it still does not take into effect the actual "effect" the weapons of small ships will ever have on way larger ships.

or to transport the scenario into more modern pictures: a guy with an AK47 can unload all the shots he want on a tank, he will never stand even a remote chance to damage , nevertheless destroy the tank.

how shall a frigate ever stand a chance to destroy a battleship ?
tackle it ? oh sure. web it ? of course
damp, TD, ecm hell yeah. but seriously damage or destroy it ? c´mon. thats what you need bigger guns for.

if, of course you could fit larger calibres in smaller ships , that would e a totally different scenario....

There are ways to fit battleships so that NO other single subcap can kill it. It wont have tackle, and it's guns may not stay on forever. It can get expensive quick, and 3 normal battleships can definitely kill it fast. Hint, passive shield tanked battleships with high meta invulns cannot be killed by a single subcap.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.

Perihelion Olenard

Likes received: 210

#122 - 2012-12-22 01:57:17 UTC | Edited by: Perihelion Olenard

Tara Read wrote:

Jeyson Vicious wrote:

Amen brotha....

Just read initial post but the soft spot in my EVE Heart is my pet Hyperion that have spent gawd awful amounts of ISK on to equip with the best of the best of the best. Even still it wouldn't hold up to much of anything and has issues with simple sites I scan down.

EVE is a strategic cruiser world.

Never could you be so wrong. The Hyperion is a beast of a vessel and can dps as much as a Vindicator if you only cook it's guns for a little while. It's the perfect ship for putting on serious amounts of hurt and with the hybrid rebalance should make anyone who squares off against one think twice.

Heavy power

8x Neutron Blaster Cannon II

Medium power
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x 100MN Microwarpdrive II
1x Large Shield Extender II
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II

Low power
1x Damage Control II
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
2x Tracking Enhancer II

Rig Slot
3x Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Drones

4x Ogre II

EHP: 102,626

DPS: 1376 DPS [1122.1 Guns 253.4 Drones] Volley: 4865. This is with CDA. For lulz overloaded 1544 DPS.

Speed: 1041 M/S [Overloaded]: 1490 M/S

Capacitor Lasts: 9 Minutes with Cap Booster 800 charges.

I find it interesting that this ship become 'beast' or 'amazing' when not using it's active armor-tanking bonus. Same thing about the brutix. Almost like armor holds the ships back.

Elrich Kouvo

Doomheim

Likes received: 116

#123 - 2012-12-24 05:54:48 UTC

Onictus wrote:

pyr8t wrote:

Onictus wrote:

There are plenty of reasons to use a battleship, assuming you have the support available.

You can say that about any ship in the game. What's your point? You can also fly a shuttle, assuming you have the support available.

Wow. Thank you for that insight.

Ok send BCs against battleships with equal numbers see who wins.

Seeing as how most BCs can fit way more EWAR/Speed Tank than your usual Battleship and still be viable.... I might go with the BCs. A fleet of T1 cruisers can take out battleships fleets with support.

Jeyson Vicious

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 65

#124 - 2012-12-24 06:33:38 UTC

Perihelion Olenard wrote:

Tara Read wrote:

Jeyson Vicious wrote:

I find it interesting that this ship become 'beast' or 'amazing' when not using it's active armor-tanking bonus. Same thing about the brutix. Almost like armor holds the ships back.

I've joked before that the "imma' banana" song plays in my head as "I'm armor repp'ing" in my Hyp. Not in front of comp right now but I armor rep, go hybrid (10 days away from starting large rail gun specialization), target track, lock disrupt and paint and it just does not hold up on simple sites I scan. I drain and run (All with either faction or officer mods). But, my Rokh, with exception of needing occasional warp away and re-supply can get through them. No matter... I'm about to run my Kronos though the car wash and the take her deep space and sees what I can sees.

4runner

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 52

#125 - 2012-12-24 11:39:38 UTC

What would fix the BS for me, would be a slighty more tank, and nerf Web and scram for frigs> BS

how can a frig the size of the warp core in a Bs be able to scramble it 100% with a tiiiiiiny warp scram module or slow down this huge mass of a ship with its tiny web module its just silly.

Not saying it should be taken off but nerfed, scram cycles have a % chance of failing and webs on frigs and dessies will almost not slow BS anything down, you would need a cruiser sized Web or a scram to have some real effect on a BS

just my 2 cent

DerArt1st

Doomheim

Likes received: 34

#126 - 2012-12-24 12:20:30 UTC | Edited by: DerArt1st

Tara Read wrote:

Jeyson Vicious wrote:

Whats so special about that?

[Typhoon, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Internal Force Field Array I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Ogre II x5

1878 dps for less money and u can also choose less dps with an actual tank + tackle + mwd.

Makavi Astro

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 46

#127 - 2012-12-26 08:15:49 UTC

Shanara As wrote:

That is exactly what I meant in my post!! Good thinking sir, that is what EVE needs.
Right now (as I have said) we can go through battleship's armor if we have enough rocks, which should not be possible.

Washichu May

Psilocybin Research

Likes received: 32

#128 - 2012-12-26 09:36:35 UTC

SImple. Introduce tackle class vs ship class scale.

If a frigate webs battleship, its 10% (or something). If a battleship webs a frigate, its 90%.
It takes 3 frigates, 2 cruisers/bc, and 1 battleship to warp-disrupt a battleship.

The original problem comes from the fact that back in the day, before signature radius shenanigans, battleships could just instapop bejesus out of everything smaller then a battleship. The days of 3 sensor booster megathrons instapopping interceptors. So they introduced the whole signature radius thing.

Well, just continue the thought, and apply it to every offensive module, not just weapons. How come frig can jam a battleship? There should be wolfpack of frigs required for the task, not 1.

If you have an assault frigate able to repair drone damage, you can hold a battleship indefinitely. Try holding down a ship on sea with a dinghy?

Ken 1138

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 114

#129 - 2012-12-26 17:34:17 UTC

Washichu May wrote:

Well this is one of the best and most interesting suggestions i've seen in this whole thread.

And to those posting battleship fits, it's already been settled. Even if you put 10 bil into a battleship, it's still not gonna be that much better.

Songbird

Likes received: 86

#130 - 2012-12-26 18:30:44 UTC

first of all a BS that can be scary to a frig? Not sure if somebody posted the domi , 6 medium neuts, 2 cap boosters, 2 reppers, 2 webs....

As for the suggestion that is should take 2 cruisers to tackle a bs and 2 frigs to tackle a cruiser and so on.... That would be a ginourmous change to the fundamental game mechanic. It is still a very good idea and something similar to what I suggest.

And what I suggest is:
A bs sized web: t1 has 65% and 13 km range, t2 has 75% and maybe 14km range. It will have BS sized fitting requirements - don't have EFT here but something similar to some of the officer webs. Maybe some 500 grid or something similar - something big enough so it's really restrictive to put on a cruiser/bc sized hull. 2 t2s should be pretty close to what a vindi can do ... And vindi is scary to a lot of smaller ship.

Washichu May

Psilocybin Research

Likes received: 32

#131 - 2012-12-26 18:43:48 UTC

Songbird wrote:

first of all a BS that can be scary to a frig? Not sure if somebody posted the domi , 6 medium neuts, 2 cap boosters, 2 reppers, 2 webs....

That's all fine and dandy in theory, but if you undock in that dominix, and get jumped by anything else then a frigate pilot who is stupid enough to sit in medium neut range, you're toast. As for how often you would get such pilot that you could actually kill in a ship like that, my guess would be 1 in 200. And that pilot will probably be a newb, so it hardly matters.

So you suggest that losing several domis until you encounter an idiot in a frig is OK?

Afuran

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 40

#132 - 2012-12-27 21:32:27 UTC

Interesting topic with a good array of ideas. And whats more they are correct- A Battleship class ship should be feared on the field.

It should be an intermediate ship somewhere between a battle cruiser and a dreadnaught.

I don't think that they should be changed to hit smaller ships easily- that's where their fleet support ships come in.

I do like the idea of buffing them across the board so they have more tank, better scan res, etc but still keep them vulnerable to smaller ships so they don't become the only ship that people will fly.

I also like the idea of having a BS class ship that can support a range of different sized guns but this concept needs to be a kind of jack-of-all trades, master-of-none so that it is like a support ship rather than a pure combat vessel.

I'm hoping CCP are using the same concepts they have with the cruiser re-balancing http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63522/1/2013shipbalancing.jpg

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