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Two Best expansions and the two worst expansions

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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-12-25 01:57:37 UTC
Well, I had checked out Eve Online during the last month of the Trinity expansion and was cloned just a couple weeks after the Empyrean Age expansion went active so I can only go from my own experiences.

The best:

#1 = Apocrypha
In my opinion this is definitely the shinning star of all the expansions I've experienced.

#2 = Incursion
Was tough to pick a second one. I feel this one pretty much completed what the Apocrypha expansion started.


The worst:

#1 = Incarna
What can be said has already has been said multiple times. This was a complete FAIL by both CCP and Players.

#2 = Retribution
This expansion has not added anything of value to my game at all. In my opinion there's just too many things to list. It has mainly created nothing more than trouble / handicaps / problems for my gameplay experience.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#62 - 2012-12-25 06:00:31 UTC
Best:

Revelations I+II
-Revelations I always will have a special place in my heart as the expansion which I started the game with. Other than that, a lot of added game mechanics which really turned EVE into the game it is today with new game mechanics like salvaging, rigs, and heat.

Apocrypha
-Of course the shining achievement of adding W-Space and related content, as well as a good portion of additional content to keep everyone else busy.



Worst:

Dominion
-The whole focus of this expansion was Sov changes, but it ended up changing the status quo for the worse. Stupidly high EHP structures with a ton of timers and supercapital ship changes spurred the development and buildup of the massive coalitions and supercap proliferation that we see today.
Rebalancing previously mediocre faction battleships and the new planet graphics were neat, but nowhere near enough to bring this one back up the list.

Incarna/Quantum Rise/(Tyrannis)
-What all these have in common is a lack of any outstanding content. Quantum Rise was entirely forgettable besides the addition of the Orca and weapon grouping. Incarna and to some extent tyrannis both suffer from the same problem of having a "spotlight" feature which simply was just not implemented the way it perhaps should have been. This is less of a problem with Tyrannis than Incarna, but they both suffer for it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#63 - 2012-12-25 09:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Notice how Apocrypha is leading in the best choice, hint hint CCP.


Well, they said it's the prototype of the expansion they don't want to deliver any more. X
Imagine that.

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Olga Ivanovna
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-12-25 23:52:21 UTC
Didnt play when apocrypha was hot, so I cant judge if it truly was the best...

So imho the best was;
Incarna :) - not for the features, but rather for opening the dialogue between ccp and players.
Retribution

Worst:
Incarna, because it was just visionary without adding anything to the game.
Incursions, i still dont get the point
Umega
Solis Mensa
#65 - 2012-12-26 01:58:07 UTC
I think it's funny how many people absolutely RAGE about what CCP does with CCP's money. You people would be a lot happier, and better off mentally if you accepted the fact that you are paying for current content.. and once you hand the money over for current content, it is no longer you're money. Voice opinions all you want.. but using the arguement that it is your money is silly.

No point touching Apoc, Retri, Cruc, Trit, EA.. spit-n-polish along with brand new additions that do not break other aspects of the game are always a plus.

Which leads me to.. Incursions. A brand new feature, that really did nothing for the core value of the game or the sandbox.. at all. It blew up LP values, (imo) negatively effected the market place (PLEX spike begins, PLEX effects everything even if through a sublte ripple), brought ppl out of null/low/wh because the RvR was so ridiculous.. while adding very little pvp influence (other than rogue logis). What ended up happening is ******* HILARIOUS when you look back on it.. it took PvP pilots doing the PvE faster and better to clear the moms so the farming machine would stop.. if but for a moment. That's what it took to get a big spot light on it before Inferno.

Wormholes did EVE right.. where Incursions did it wrong.

Dominion - aka 'Fade to Black'. They worked on FW in EA2, I mean Inferno.. so who knows, eventually.. we're now in that 18+ month range, so brighten up! One thing to mention.. pirate overhaul (RIP phantasm). The lag got fixed.. what didn't was them tiny lil missile spitters.. still shoulda kept it as was, 2 'new' Titan DDs = dead Mom, I mean SC. Can you imagine what null might be like if it wasn't for the next big patch after Dominion..

Which leads me to.. RMR. I'm rather stunned the approval of it, when you factor what caps ultimately accomplished..

 Ume-Pro Studios
Kaildoth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-12-26 04:18:44 UTC
I dont really think Exodus was a bad expansion. If you look at it from today's point of view maybe, cause POSs didnt end up being so good, but back then the ability to start building things in your own corner of space was pretty awesome, plus the moon mining was something new and interesting.

Best:
Exodus
Apocrypha

Worst:
Trinity (i dont really care about pretty graphics...)
Incarna
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#67 - 2012-12-26 04:33:15 UTC
Incarna was by far the best. I've never seen a more wretched hive of tears and butthurt. The most epic of all trolls since guiding hand social club, and best of all, ccp was doing the trolling. God, I wish they would do it again.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Frying Doom
#68 - 2012-12-26 04:41:41 UTC
Best:
Apocrypha
Incarna

Apocrypha for showing how good an expansion can be.
Incarna for showing CCP what happens when they think they can shovel any crap at us and think we will buy it.

Worst:
Inferno
The next one.

Inferno mostly for the half finished UI and the even more broken war dec system.
The next on where they hopefully fix POSs YaY but then go on to explain that the rest of the resources for 2013 are going to be spent on trying to once again fix Null while they trash hi-sec.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#69 - 2012-12-26 13:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
CCP Falcon wrote:

So I've been playing since a week after release, and my favorites are :

Apocrypha - Release date March 10, 2009

There was just so much good stuff in this release, it's hard to pin down everything I enjoyed. Training queue (omg!), T3, Wormholes... yeah, it's my favorite.

Retribution - Release date: December 4, 2012

Retribution was amazing, and was the first deployment I saw as a Dev rather than as a player. It's unbelievable how many people were staying late at the office, or working their fingers to the bone to make sure that things were polished and set for release. So much goes on behind the scenes, it's unbelievable.

I think my two worst as a player were :

Quantum Rise - Release date November 11, 2008

This was mainly backend stuff and didn't bring a lot of new game play to the table other than a speed overhaul. For me, I would have just called it Empyrean Age 1.1, but I can understand why it was labelled as its own expansion, as the backed stuff that was done was massive, and has really paved the way for providing a larger, more solid foundation to grow EVE on.

Incarna - Release Date June 21, 2011

From a player point of view, a lot of the people I used to fly with labelled this one "Incarnage" - Enough said I think. On a more serious note, even joining the company so long after it, it's plain to see that even though a high price was paid, we learned a lot of very valuable and humbling lessons that have really allowed us to re-organize, push forward, and grow.
Two best in my opinion are Trinity and Apocrypha; two worst are Empyrean Age and Incarna.

Quantum Rise was a fantastic expansion (see http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=1672 and http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=1674) giving rise to the vast increases in fleet fight size and Jita population. Later increased even further by inventory work (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2277) and Time Dilation.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-12-26 18:49:52 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Notice how Apocrypha is leading in the best choice, hint hint CCP.


Well, they said it's the prototype of the expansion they don't want to deliver any more. X
Imagine that.

Were any reason provided? I would like to read something on this one.
Because well, the only reason I can come up with is that Apocrypha had some actual content while many others were iterations of polishing stuff. And bringing something like that means much more work to do...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#71 - 2012-12-29 04:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
CCP Falcon wrote:

I think my two worst as a player were :

Quantum Rise - Release date November 11, 2008

This was mainly backend stuff and didn't bring a lot of new game play to the table other than a speed overhaul. For me, I would have just called it Empyrean Age 1.1, but I can understand why it was labelled as its own expansion, as the backed stuff that was done was massive, and has really paved the way for providing a larger, more solid foundation to grow EVE on.


I love you man, but I can't possibly disagree with this more.
Quantum Rise is one of my favourite expansions ever for two huge reasons:
  • Quantum Rise, more than any other single patch, took steps forward towards fixing lag. Think about how you would have reacted five years ago if someone had told you that CCP would (through a couple of expansions) make lag a tiny shadow of the problem it used to be. Years of "fix lag" being both the cry of legitimate frustration and the poster child for "impossible" causes, and the backend work on Quantum Rise combined with the work of team Gridlock later did the impossible.
  • The nano nerf is probably the second most significant balance change in the years since I started playing EVE (after the AOE doomsday removal that set in motion the chain reaction that influences almost every 0.0 fleet doctrine change to this day). Think about the way we look at 90% webs as a kind of unstoppable superbonus today, and remember what it was like when every web did that. Every ship had a 10km doom bubbles around it that really crippled combat options. It's easy to take all the gameplay that the nano nerf gave us for granted since we're so used to it now, but it's really a huge change that probably has a greater effect on the average EVE player today than even the biggest expansions like Apocrypha.

My list would be:

Best:
  • Retrbution - I'm pretty sure I'm biased since this was also the first whole expansion I was able to work on from start to finish, but I'm immensely proud of what our team accomplished over the past months and I couldn't think of a better time for my name to enter the credits.
  • Quantum Rise - See above (I got into some lively debates on this exact issue with some CSM members during the summit drinking nights, I think we all came to understand each other though)

Suboptimal:
  • Dominion - The bright spot of this expansion was the removal of AOE doomsdays which as I said above was a change that sent out ripples that continue to this day. However shooting high hp structures is like hitting yourself in the balls with a hammer, and combined with a significant step backwards in server performance really soured what should have been a grand redesign of the system that spawns so many of EVE's epic stories. In a lot of ways Dominion is still an unfinished expansion, hopefully we'll be able to complete it sometime soon.
  • Incarna - This one has been covered pretty extensively already, doubt most people's opinions differ all that much.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
David Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#72 - 2012-12-29 14:43:48 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Notice how Apocrypha is leading in the best choice, hint hint CCP.


Well, they said it's the prototype of the expansion they don't want to deliver any more. X
Imagine that.

Were any reason provided? I would like to read something on this one.
Because well, the only reason I can come up with is that Apocrypha had some actual content while many others were iterations of polishing stuff. And bringing something like that means much more work to do...


The main reason they said they'd stop is because the last time they tried it, they really, really messed it up. Incarna was meant to be a HUGE content expansion, full of options and shinies and new places to go and people to be. It... wasn't that.

It was in fact a bit crappy.

Okay, a lot crappy, and riots happened.


But, the thing is: EVE is hugely better now. They mostly fixed lag! CCP hired a PvP guy to rebalance frigates, and he's already halfway through the battlecruisers! Ten thousand tiny irritations have been smushed by the Little Things project!

We're probably at the point where the only things left to fix are major projects. POSes, moon minerals, supercap proliferation, the DUST link, etc.
Really, we're due something huge and game-changing, if only because the small stuff is drying up. Maybe it's time to invade the Jove. Maybe wormhole space needs to start giving us T3 Destroyer BPCs. Maybe incursions need to roll out to EOM so we can finally get our hands on shiny black railgun Armageddons. I've no idea what route CCP will take, but I'm pretty sure they've got something big and kick-ass in the works.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-12-29 16:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: fukier
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

I think my two worst as a player were :

Quantum Rise - Release date November 11, 2008

This was mainly backend stuff and didn't bring a lot of new game play to the table other than a speed overhaul. For me, I would have just called it Empyrean Age 1.1, but I can understand why it was labelled as its own expansion, as the backed stuff that was done was massive, and has really paved the way for providing a larger, more solid foundation to grow EVE on.


I love you man, but I can't possibly disagree with this more.
Quantum Rise is one of my favourite expansions ever for two huge reasons:
  • Quantum Rise, more than any other single patch, took steps forward towards fixing lag. Think about how you would have reacted five years ago if someone had told you that CCP would (through a couple of expansions) make lag a tiny shadow of the problem it used to be. Years of "fix lag" being both the cry of legitimate frustration and the poster child for "impossible" causes, and the backend work on Quantum Rise combined with the work of team Gridlock later did the impossible.
  • The nano nerf is probably the second most significant balance change in the years since I started playing EVE (after the AOE doomsday removal that set in motion the chain reaction that influences almost every 0.0 fleet doctrine change to this day). Think about the way we look at 90% webs as a kind of unstoppable superbonus today, and remember what it was like when every web did that. Every ship had a 10km doom bubbles around it that really crippled combat options. It's easy to take all the gameplay that the nano nerf gave us for granted since we're so used to it now, but it's really a huge change that probably has a greater effect on the average EVE player today than even the biggest expansions like Apocrypha.



You do make some valid points but QR really killed galente ships for a long long time... and even with tallest semi fixing hybrids last year there are still some thorns left in hybrids (mainly medium rails) and lack of ammo diversification...

edit:
if you are keen on finishing dominion (and i pray every night before bed you do) please call version 2.0 EvE Online: Regency
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#74 - 2012-12-29 17:01:04 UTC
I get the distinct impression that dominion was really, really awful. But I'm not a nullsec person so it hasn't really affected me. So my picks for terrible are:

- Inferno
I don't think I've ever seen another EVE expansion that was quite so exclusively negative in its impact on the game. All of the features were very obviously unfinished and poorly conceived and in the end had to be massively altered post-release to fix the gigantic, glaring holes in them. Chief among these horribly botched features were the War Declaration system and Unified Inventory, both things that people called out as being godawful and broken considerably before release, but got put out in a crappy, unfinished form anyway. Literally the only part of the game I interact with that this expansion affected that it didn't screw up was the wars panel in the corporation screen, which is actually pretty good, also you can right click on an alliance or corporation to declare war on it, which is great.

- Incarna
We all know the deal with this one. CCP Totally ignoring the entire playerbase and dedicating a huge quantity of time and resources to developing a thing that nobody wanted at the expense of things they actually did want and then failing to actually deliver that thing properly. New turrets were good though.

Good expansions?

- Apocrypha
It gave us wormholes, wormholes are great and so are tech 3 ships. A new type of space to violence people in and new ships to violence them with. You can also rob the hell out of a wormhole corp with very little effort and make loads of money.

- Incursion
I don't actually like incursions much, but clearly other people did. There may have been some problems with how they were balanced, and these problems might persist, I have no idea. But Incursion brought a tremendous quantity of activity to the game with regards to new and returning players and it turned highsec into a fantastically target rich environment. Incursion was with out a doubt the best time I had playing EVE and I think I personally ran exactly one incursion site ever.
Red Maiden
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-12-29 17:04:36 UTC
Best:

Apocrypha:
Enough has already been said why this expansion was so good.

Retribution:
For me, the best thing about this expansion (among many other good changes) is the attention being given to the UI. I love this direction, and hope its iteration continues. Besides ambulation, I believe that improving the UI is the next best way to attract, and keep, new players.

Incarna:
The CQ was a great step toward making it easier for new players to "get" EVE. I love the CQ, and always have "load station environment" checked. The best thing about all the surrounding drama were the changes that resulted: a refocused, even more open and communicative CCP. I can only imagine the internal changes that resulted (the changes that the players don't see). I wonder what the epic/story discussions are like during iteration planning? Lively, I bet.


Worst:
None. I've enjoyed each expansion in varying degrees.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#76 - 2012-12-29 17:14:42 UTC
it easy for me to pick my personal best list:
crucible, inferno, retribution

all of them have the same theme: improve eve's foundation, fix broken mechanics
crimewatch, inventory, bounties, FW, war, ships, interface, graphics, sound ...

I only play eve actively for about three years but wow it changed a lot. I remember the talk about new "big things" back when i started. As i started it was a usability nightmare. Everything you did was basically a workaround for something not working as it could or should. Eve was in a state where adding new features would be inferior to fixing existing mechanics. Incarna was needed as example for that - so it was a good thing in retrospect.

whats left for future in the foundation theme:
pos (this alone could be blown up to be the big thing for its own expansion IMO), intel tool (local, dscan), collision system, manual flying, null sec love, wspace love, more UI & graphics (V3)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-12-30 01:16:01 UTC
who cares ,what the best or worst expansion is.
It matters, if you like this game.
And if you like this game ,until now ,all expansions were good.
Yes even Incarna ,it made a unique discussion possible ,that goes on until today
Maybe we expected more from some of those expansions,but all of them or the promise they had ,kept you to this game

is there a best expansion ? yes maybe

is there a worst expansion? yes there is

does it matter?

not really,bc you are still here

R.S.I2014
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#78 - 2013-01-02 22:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: 45thtiger 0109
Lets Telly the total up the best Expansion of all time Drum Roll is Apocrypha

The second Expansion of all time is wait for it Retribution

Well done CCP on a great Job.

The worst Expansions

Are Dominion

And Incarna

Thanks everyone for the input and thanks to CCP also for your input into this forum. Big smile

And if other players who would like to have an input please do so.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#79 - 2013-01-04 12:18:05 UTC
Incarna - was bad more to a lack of communication than anything else everyone felt CCP dropped the ball and didn't want to admit it ,Add to that the micro transaction talk and the possibility of a pay to win format and again total silence from all at CCP
and tempers ran wild


This patch the drone issues are what most mission runners are upset about as for the rest after a few fixes and a few patches later most of it works as intended

the new crime watch seems to function well etc ....

Drones being instapopped in missions is still something that needs to be addressed and hopefully soon

my favorite patch was the one where jump freighters were added as it made living in 0.0 a lot easier moving mass amounts of goods with other caps was a pain and took multiple trips

TCU's were a great addition until they nerfed the systems again with true sec status cutting off haven and sanctums to those who had worked hard to upgrade the space to get there in the first place a lot of smaller alliances working on becoming big alliances were hurt by that change quite a few disbanded over a lack of income
because you can't afford pvp if you can't afford to replace ships

And all each patch has had its up and downs depending on your style of play and what you wanted to accomplish

some Titan pilots were angered over the change to doomsday but some mothership pilots loved the fighter bombers

i was upset when the Moros was changed and no longer got its super awesome drone bonuses

but i liked the addition of fuel bays to the cap ships

Back in the day i was mad when they nerfed nano and nerfed nos but you learn to adapt strategy and over come

started this char in 2007 and i am still here can't say that for any other game and i know a lot of people that have been playing longer than me and they are still here

So ya take the good with the bad take the knocks and the wins and keep on warping LolP