EVE General Discussion

effing forums, ccp please fix this bullshit "no html" code i get for using youre own "bold" function.


REMOVE STATISTIC REPORTING FROM 0.0

Not all of it, but the following:

Rats killed per system
The ability to remotely view soveregnity upgrade levels (force people to physically visit the system to see if its got it - only allow the corp that owns the tcu/ihub to remotely view)
Jumps per system


Why?


0.0 is meant to be lawless space. Why are the stargates reporting stuff back to concord? I thought that once in 0.0 the stargates did not do this - hense why we do not recieve a sec status hit for podkilling, or attaking without aggression in 0.0. It makes no sense that the stargates report back to concord on statistics such as NPCS's killed per hour, jumps per hour, and the ability to remote view sov upgrades (clicking a systems' information and you're able to see they have industry lvl 4)

This is an excessive reporting tool, one that is used by the big corps/alliances of 0.0 to ensure their hold on space is complete.

Its impossible for a small corp/alliance to "sneak" into 0.0 and put a claim on a small, ****** sec status system. (this is essentialy the first step all corps/alliances make when they decide to try 0.0 - take a small quiet system, setup and use it to its maximum potential to make cash - then see where to go from there)

At current - its IMPOSSIBLE for them to to this for a number of reasons.

yes yes your'e thinking if they take a system they're on the map immediately. True. they are - but they may not go in with intents of putting up sov - they may choose the silent approach - a 0.0 system with say 15-30 belts in system, **** sec status, and unclaimed. Noone should notice they move in - they are found and removed by big alliances that watch the likes of Dotlan for npc's/hour killed. The big alliances move in - aim guns at the little guys and say "pay us 1bil/month and you can stay here - no we wont let you put up sov either" - if not just blow them up straight away to bring "the troops morale back up" because they just got their arses kicked in a big fight.


Its just impossible for a small corp/alliance to set foot in 0.0 space without being held for randsom by a big 0.0 corp demaing they join a pet alliance and pay ludacrious ammounts of rent.



How can CCP counter this - in a way which wont hurt the big alliances, but will also give the little ones a viable chance at 0.0 space?


Remove the statistics reporting from 0.0. As i said earlier - Concord dont get notified via the stargates about whom you podkill, why shuold concord get wind of how many npc's per hour get killed, or how many jumps per system, or even the ability to show the info of a system and see remotely that some random corp/alliance has the industry 4 upgrade in system?


You need to cut back on the support for the big alliances - removing those statistics is the way to do it.

The big corps/alliances have the resources, and manpower, to assign someone to scout duty to fly around their space and keep an eye out for "intruders" - if they hold sov in systems they'll also get notified instantly if someone drops a tower - but why keep a tool in game which ensures that the little guy's cant make a move without the searchlights being on them?

I know, but again, Dotlan will show npc's killed per hour/24 hours and they'll easily be able to see by that, and jumping in and seeing a Dscan full of wrecks - that the system is actively being used.

Then they just put their own afk/cloakey in there (even if it is just someones 10day old alt that can use a frig and cloak) which will prevent the people in there for using it. If they do.. said cloakey alt just relay's back to his mates they've grown comfy to him being i system and are using it again then send in a small fleet to deal with them, or permnanlty leave the system with an AFK cloakey.



ti is so hard, to get you're foot into 0.0 without bending over and selling you're soul to a big 0.0 alliance, and the current success rate with sneaking into 0.0 is on par with the success Australia will have with NOT getting a carbon tax.

Sneaking in isnt the point, you're not supposed to be able to do it. If your corp is decent at pvp, and isn't full of morons it's not hard to get into 0.0. No decent 0.0 alliance will ask for isk at all, do your research into alliances. You don't ever 'just go into' 0.0. You have to plan and you have to be prepared for it. It's not casual land, 0.0 is for the hardcores with little in the way of lives. Don't fit that mold, dont try to remake 0.0 to fit you, you have to fit 0.0.

Hello member of Test Alliance Please Ignore.

When they figure out what you'r doing, move somewhere else and start over. Nullsec is so effing big and so effing empty once you get away from the chokes it isn't even funny. Besides, all the null pvp'ers are in lowsec nowadays anyway.



B-b--but I'll lose my PvE ship! My K/D ration will go down! You're just a big meanie who wants to kill stuff that can't fight back.

Logitstics hassle. IT takes what... two to three hours to setup a pos properly, that is with corp hangars, ship maint arrays, let's say ammo assembly array as they want to be self sufficient, perhaps a drone array too, and becuase they want to protect their investment the remainder of the CPU/power on the pos gets filled up with guns.


I used to be a pos monkey, the ***** that ran around setting up, refueling, pulling down and moving pos's. Believe me, it is hell, it gets to a point that you'd prefer to go to put your'e hands on a stove IRL. well, not that bad.... but having to do it on say, a weekly basis, added the risk of you're **** going kaboom in transit due to gatecamps, its just not worth the time and effort for some.

Tho dont get me wrong - it is a valid playstyle, i know people whom do exactly this, but its mainly a strategy used by mining corporations. Jump a rorq into a dead quiet system with lotsa belts and no sov, drop a small tower, and corp hangar array, mine the system dry, packup and move. If anything happens - no worries, rorq is carrying the ore, and its only a small tower and corp hangar array, it takes what... 10 minutes to setup (without anchor time) and 1 day using the system to its full potential covers the pos 's worth tenfold.

It works prefectly for miners using this strategy - becuase nothing on dotlan reports that X number of roids have been killed per hour. The only thing that will give away that they are there, is number of people in system, and if someone physicialy jumps in and sees them.


And my point is raised again - everyone knows what everyone is doing becasue of the stats reporting features. Why is this necessary? How many spy's are there in all the big alliances and corporations? Why is this job not left to them? Why is this stuff getting reported to begin with? Other than to tend the needs of lazy people?

Remove those stats, and more people will be able to give 0.0 a try.

Yes, many will still die as they're scouted out, but the fact that they can do things in semi-secret - and everything they do isnt on pen/paper on a statistical page somewhere - gives them alot of time, and to the player himself - alot of hope - that his dreams of getting his 50man corp a home in 0.0 space, again without being the laptog of a big alliance, and paying tenfold what the system is realy worth in "rent".

The current problem is anything other than a blob = death

CCP Realises this, which is why they're nurfing stuff, and adding more ships :)

in the meantime... we work with what we are given, and talk about our dreams of a non-blob-0.0

quoting by far and away the most liked answer in the thread so you can add something to the OP about it, in case you forget or accidently ignore it.

I think that the biggest problem is NBSI policy of null sec. If neutrals could not get instantly shot down and the larger alliances of null sec had some reason to act like legitimate governments instead of a giant band of rogues and bullies, maybe null sec wouldn't be so awful.

I think the solution is one which encourages alliance to adopt a more lenient policy on outsiders as well as a manageable way of providing NPC forces for large alliances to protect systems. The reason it has to be npc forces which are beholden to player authority is because honestly, being in a standing fleet just running around playing police is not a fun way to spend your time. The number and strength should be limited, maybe to around 5-10 ships per system (which would have to be replaced when destroyed - or perhaps the alliance is just charged money when their ships are destroyed). I don't think the police should respond to the mere presence of enemies: only if they attack assets of the alliance or neutrals within the system. Obviously ten ships wouldn't stop a well organized fleet or twenty or more people, and really that's not the point. For a large battle, the alliance will have to come out and help defend. For small skirmishes or one guy going rogue, maybe it might afford a little safety in exchange for the costs involved (and I think people baiting the police ships to destroy them would be a relatively high risk and one that maybe even shouldn't be mitigated).

What I'm thinking is allowing the sov holder to set their system as "protected". By enabling this option, they are allowed to place Gate guns at their stargates in that system which will react to aggression of neutral-neutral, neutral on alliance member or the presence of enemies (reds).

To offset these costs, the sov holder are allowed to set the tax rate of the system - any bounties, minerals collected, etc is automatically deducted from what those working within the system would normally collect, which could then fund the defenses and possibly even provide additional profit by themselves - but only if they profess a system to be protected under their alliance otherwise it would operate under the current situation. The charge could not be avoided unless the target is marked as a hostile (and thus would be attacked on sight anyway and not afforded protection). In other words, players can be given good money for making space a nicer place to live in rather than a FFA blob-fest.

Anyway, that is my opinion. In order for Null Sec to be more popular, there has to be a method of alliances making it safer rather than only making it a dangerous endeavor. The point of null sec should be Player Authority rather than NPC authority, which adds the danger of uncontrollable human element, rather than just a place where unless you are part of a big alliance you'll get blown up even if you haven't aggressed anything. I know a lot of people would also be in favor of making holding individual space require more firepower, or just outright increase the number of null-sec systems. Of course, if an alliance wants to be pirate-like, they can. And it would be exactly like it is now.

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Sure, EvE is about PvP and being a sand box, and I think that that element should definitely stay. I wonder what would happen if one alliance simply controlled each and every system within null sec, I wonder if CCP would do anything.

Another interesting feature would be allowing alliances to post, for a nominal fee, on the concord news network. The posts should have rules involving them - such as they have to be in character and believable within the game - and should be reviewed and accepted by someone at CCP. This one feature would be awesome and is already in some ways incorporated with the little flavor news blips CCP posts from time to time. It should be prominent and easily accessible, which will allow even high-sec care bears a glimpse into the politics of the galaxy.

I don't think that Sovereignty Null Sec can really be changed to entice many high sec dwellers to move there without changing it in a way that would be detrimental to those that do like to play in that environment. It's the casualness or "do things on my terms" and propensity to play solo or in small groups that characterize many High Sec players that put them at odds with Null Sec realities. Certainly removal of Local Chat intel would be a boost to those not adverse to PvP to venture into Null Sec, but live there is another matter, since with current Sov mechanics that's not really possible without joining a very large structured player Alliance.

* So what keeps me out of Sov Null Sec is having to be part of a large player organization and playing on others' terms for causes I couldn't care less about, nothing is going to change that. I've done it, first time I played EVE, and hated it. Get rid of Local and I might visit, but I'll never live there.

NPC Null Sec is another matter, I spent about half my time out there on my last venture in this game (just came back), and I did ok there as a solo player. But in terms of risk and efficiency in making ISK which is what a lot of people base things off, my move to NPC Null Sec would not be considered time well spent. But I didn't go there just for ISK, I went there for the challenge, the excitement of navigating the risks, and to try and be involved in the story by working for a Pirate Faction. Well the results were it was a bit of a challenge and it was more exciting than High Sec, but I didn't feel rewarded for it in terms of game mechanics, and running missions and building up standing with the local Pirates is completely meaningless..well aside that I'm punished in not being able to hunt local RATs without wrecking my standings.

* What would get me to stay out in NPC Null Sec would be to make it more rewarding compared to High Sec (without making it another must group activity) and most critically make aligning with Local Pirate Factions and building up standings really mean something (and having negative standings have consequences). Make it feel like a home and make it feel like your part of back story of EVE.

I really think NPC Null Sec is key to getting more people from the rest of space involved, by making living there about relations with the local NPCs not player Sovereignty, then it needs to be profitable enough compared to High Sec to attract more than combat PvP types and die hard RPers. Create more pockets of NPC Nullsec held by various NPC factions not just Pirates and see if communities begin to thrive out there. If they do it should add to trade and smaller scale PvP for the whole of Null Sec.

High Sec PvE needs to be nerfed, again and again, and again! Sorry, but I really believe this. There should be areas of safe space to trade and do some sorts of industry and for raw newbies. However, in a Sandbox like this there should never be a safe place that is also competitive in comparison to the more dangerous space, it shouldn't even be close. Most mining shouldn't happen in High Sec, and if it does it should be heavily taxed by controlling Empires and Concord somehow, it's their space and their resources that keep it "relatively" safe. Missions are even worse, there should be no even moderately lucrative PvE combat missions that don't involve conflict with other players. So aside from FW, higher level missions should be in Low Sec and NPC Null Sec only. Either that or really make FW impact all players not just those that signed up for it and bring back Wardecs as they were pre Privateers.

At it's very core what's wrong with EVE is the risk vs reward balance, pretty much everyone is very risk adverse, so raise the rewards for taking risks and heavily reduce for situations that result in near 100% safety. Make the risks look manageable if not avoidable. And don't create mechanics where the solution is always just to get more players, more alts, or a bigger ship. More Isk Faucets from PvP, much less from PvE. More variable outcomes in game play that involve actual player involvement in determining outcomes, ie adjusting Local Chat Intel to an enhanced scanner system, Null Sec gate camping (which is called zone camping in other games) is pretty weak game play too, I'd like to that turned into something better for all involved as well.