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A thesis on the solutions and reality of slavery

Author
Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#61 - 2012-12-12 04:50:42 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Ms. Amun:

By the way, I'm not trafficking slaves, especially not within the Republic as the latter is against imperial law. I'd like to request that you'd stop implying that I'm not a law-abiding subject of her Majesty, the Empress.


A law-abiding subject? I see.

Quote:
Also you see me quite puzzled as to how this harmless exchange lead to you once again (emphasis mine) embracing the terroristic methods of Ms. Morgan, unless you - which brings me back to my first point - take this far too personal or were searching for something from which you can fabricate a justification for the unjustifiable.

I remain faithfully,
N. Mithra


It's been a rewarding night.

I made you a firm promise, and it is being kept. Many slaves were "reclaimed" (ho ho!) and snooked past customs to a new life. The Republic Fleet looked on, as bored as you like, as usual. Your gunners were asleep, so extra credit to them. Exactly 52 (fifty-two) surviving Amarr traffickers heard your name as the last thing they'll ever hear in this life-time. To honour you further, any remaining mechanical flotsam was also labelled in your name.

The only down-side is that Joint Harvesting are considered a 'wet' Corp by your kind. It spoils the triumph, a little.

Holo-vid on its way to you. Sneak preview one and two.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"

Luna Mori
AmmuNacionale
#62 - 2012-12-16 23:07:12 UTC
Luna Mori wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
...I want to hear about your ability to provide clothes, housing, medical care, education, community, and all the rest of the things that we are currently providing for these slaves...


If I can show you two schemes which do exactly that, will you release your slaves to us?



Ms Luftschreck asked to hear of our ability to provide for these slaves as she can. The Ani Tribal Assembly, the Animatruu, operates a liberation scheme whereby rescued slaves are cared for and integrated into the local community. Medicines, foodstuffs, livestock, textiles, power cells, and other goods and materials are donated to the scheme by capsuleers.

Releasing slaves into a community which isn't prepared or able is straight out of Sarum's Book of Dirty Tricks and is bound to be a disaster. I specifically asked if Ms Luftschreck would release her slaves to us, the Animataruu, and not the Republic. We at least are prepared, able, and willing to do what the Rebulic cannot or will not.

The offer stands. However, I seriously doubt Ms Luftschreck would have the courage to empower her slaves with the opportunity.

General Secretary, Ani Tribal Assembly

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#63 - 2012-12-16 23:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Luna Mori wrote:
Releasing slaves into a community which isn't prepared or able is straight out of Sarum's Book of Dirty Tricks and is bound to be a disaster. I specifically asked if Ms Luftschreck would release her slaves to us, the Animataruu, and not the Republic. We at least are prepared, able, and willing to do what the Rebulic cannot or will not.


As I expected, there is the misconception here that a manumitted slave is released to someone. An ex-slave is free to make his home wherever he sees fit. The Empress didn't 'release' slaves to the Republic - she liberated slaves and some of those ex-slaves made the decision to to make the Republic their home. That the Republic wasn't and isn't able to deal with those immigrants isn't the responsibility of her Majesty.

All that aside, whether one can claim to be able to care for liberated slaves or not, it is against the act of liberation which manumission is to 'request' a 'release to someone' from the one holding the slave until that very act. It's showing ignorance of and disregard for the liberty of the manumitted and their right to decide on their own accord where they want to live.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#64 - 2012-12-17 22:56:57 UTC
Luna Mori wrote:
Luna Mori wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
...I want to hear about your ability to provide clothes, housing, medical care, education, community, and all the rest of the things that we are currently providing for these slaves...


If I can show you two schemes which do exactly that, will you release your slaves to us?



Ms Luftschreck asked to hear of our ability to provide for these slaves as she can. The Ani Tribal Assembly, the Animatruu, operates a liberation scheme whereby rescued slaves are cared for and integrated into the local community. Medicines, foodstuffs, livestock, textiles, power cells, and other goods and materials are donated to the scheme by capsuleers.

Releasing slaves into a community which isn't prepared or able is straight out of Sarum's Book of Dirty Tricks and is bound to be a disaster. I specifically asked if Ms Luftschreck would release her slaves to us, the Animataruu, and not the Republic. We at least are prepared, able, and willing to do what the Rebulic cannot or will not.

The offer stands. However, I seriously doubt Ms Luftschreck would have the courage to empower her slaves with the opportunity.



The Republic does not provide all these things ?
Luna Mori
AmmuNacionale
#65 - 2012-12-18 00:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Luna Mori
Lyn Farel wrote:
Luna Mori wrote:
Luna Mori wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
...I want to hear about your ability to provide clothes, housing, medical care, education, community, and all the rest of the things that we are currently providing for these slaves...


If I can show you two schemes which do exactly that, will you release your slaves to us?



Ms Luftschreck asked to hear of our ability to provide for these slaves as she can. The Ani Tribal Assembly, the Animatruu, operates a liberation scheme whereby rescued slaves are cared for and integrated into the local community. Medicines, foodstuffs, livestock, textiles, power cells, and other goods and materials are donated to the scheme by capsuleers.

Releasing slaves into a community which isn't prepared or able is straight out of Sarum's Book of Dirty Tricks and is bound to be a disaster. I specifically asked if Ms Luftschreck would release her slaves to us, the Animataruu, and not the Republic. We at least are prepared, able, and willing to do what the Rebulic cannot or will not.

The offer stands. However, I seriously doubt Ms Luftschreck would have the courage to empower her slaves with the opportunity.



The Republic does not provide all these things ?


The sudden arrival of millions of homeless, hungry mouths would test any society's mettle. I find it difficult to believe that Sarum could not have known that. The Republic were set up. Sarum and her dirty tricks department got a good laugh out of it. If the basics Ms Luftschreck demanded had been in surplus in the Republic, or provided by the Empire at the time, then Sarum's gesture might have had greater, and more lasting meaning. If there had been any sincerity in the act then I'm sure it would have been more successful.

General Secretary, Ani Tribal Assembly

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2012-12-18 01:03:23 UTC
To be fair, you asked that they be freed. I fail to see how it is the Empire's fault that you couldn't cope with supporting them once this happened.

Are you seriously telling me that, as a culture, you've been pursuing the immediate and complete freedom of ALL slaves held by the Empire and yet you had no plan in place to care for even a fraction of just the Minmatar slaves when your dream began to be realised? And that having realised this, you then blame the woman who freed that fraction and has the power to free the rest of them?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#67 - 2012-12-18 11:12:07 UTC
She's not only telling you that she is pursuing the freedom of all slaves, but that they have to be 'released' to herself or 'the Minmatar people'. One has to keep in mind that of the slaves freed by the edict of the Empress, only a tiny fraction chose to migrate to the Republic. The majority stayed within the Empire and - not surprisingly - they don't have to deal with the same existential problems as the ones that went to the Republic.

Also, given how big even the Republic is, one can hardly say that 'the sudden arrival of millions of homeless, hungry mouths would test any society's mettle'. It's like saying a few hundreds of people that suddenly arrive at a metropolis couldn't possibly be cared for.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-12-18 12:11:51 UTC
In the end, Sarum's release of slaves proved you all "freedom fighters" were just an empty lot. Captain Ssakaa, for example, claims killing 52 amarrian slavers and freeing their slaves as some sort of triumph. Do you know what percentage of the entire slave population this is? Easy: none.

"Freedom fighters" keep boasting about how they defeated this ship or that and freed the slaves transported within, but truth is that Empress Sarum did more for the freedom your race than all of your pod pilot efforts since the begining of your independance. Including the traitorous attack that the Elders launched on Amarr space.

You are all just talk.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2012-12-18 19:59:47 UTC
The main issue is not so much that they can be provided shelter by the Republic or not, but more a matter of principles and power with a contradictory context to what was unofficially expected.

In the case where the slaves are liberated by the Minmatar forces, there is a debt hierarchy involved. The liberators keep a moral power over the freed slaves.

In the current case where the slaves are released by the opposing enemy, and for those that come willingly back to the Republic, the hierarchy goes in the other way : the local power have no ascendancy over the released slaves.

This might be why Minmatar loyalists are still complaining. Added to the fact that they have a political agenda to pursue besides, of course.
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-12-19 03:44:53 UTC
The Republic has been sowed with His word
watch it sprout, in look of the light,
trim the weeds that hinder its growth.

Anyone can count the seeds in an apple,
but only God can count the number of apples in a seed.

von Khan

Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#71 - 2012-12-21 13:27:43 UTC
Sepherim wrote:

"Freedom fighters" keep boasting about how they defeated this ship or that and freed the slaves transported within, but truth is that Empress Sarum did more for the freedom your race than all of your pod pilot efforts since the begining of your independance. Including the traitorous attack that the Elders launched on Amarr space.

You are all just talk.


What do you want? A poem? A eulogy to the ***** Sarum and Ardishapur X Y or Z or any of the other monkeys who went before her? Maybe one in advance to her own successor, who may not be such a wonderful species of despot.

At any rate, briefly scanning through the replies here, seems everyone's missed Luna's whole point, as expected. Clue is in a very small word indeed.

PS Talk? That's another 50 Mary slave-traffickers added to the to-do list. Lovely They'll thank you in "heaven" perhaps, chappie.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"

Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#72 - 2012-12-21 13:31:09 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Added to the fact that they have a political agenda to pursue besides, of course.


Yes. Co-incidentally, of course.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"

Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-12-25 02:47:22 UTC
Amarrians or who ever wish to enlighten me !

alot of things are hard for me to understand, even if i try hard to look to the core of things, but at moments like this eyeing ower the logs of transpired comunication, i simply cant understand, or grasp the reason ? ... A earlier Amarr speaker mentioned that minmatar wouldent be released until they were educated, something in the lines of their not ready, you are all fueled by your belief that you and only the Amarian way is the right way and anything else is hearacy and should be converted into the fold, now this said, does not the Amarrians themself comit heracy by being allied with the Caldari, to my understanding they are ewen more, or ewen further away from the spiritual beliefs of the Amarrians, then the Minmatar tribes, or is there a dubble standard here or does your faith only serve when the enemy is weaker, things just dont logically add up here, please do enlighten me !

Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#74 - 2012-12-25 08:56:50 UTC
Fey Ivory.

The following was written by someone who's name I cannot recall, but it's a corker of a quote and the author should be recognised if we could but locate him or her.

There's reference to their 'friends' the Caldari within, for your edification, who would suffer a similar fate if all else falls.

"Udorians have a more successful, more prosperous and less oppressive society than you? Conquer and enslave them.
Sabi Sanik have theological disagreements with you? Murder and exile them.
Takhmal have theological disagreements with you? Murder and exile them.
Ni-Kunni live inoffensively in a far corner of the cluster? Conquer and enslave them.
Another tribe on the Ni-Kunni homeworld resists you? Wipe them out.
Minmatar have a prosperous, successful and technologically advanced society that functions just fine without your god? Conquer and enslave them.
Starkmanir throw you off the planet that's rightfully theirs after a half-millenia of abuse? Wipe them out.
Jovians have a prosperous, successful and technologically advanced society that functions just fine without your god? Attempt to conquer and enslave them (although thankfully, that didn't work out too well for you).
Federation has a prosperous, successful and technologically advanced society that functions better without your god? Make plans to conquer and enslave them.
Business partner becomes politically inconvenient to support? Stab him in the back."



Sincerely,

A.A., Phrenologist.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#75 - 2012-12-25 09:24:10 UTC
So long as the Empire insists on the backward and inefficient anachronism that is Slavery they'll never get an opportunity to wipe out the State. Have you seen the way they do business? Our CEOs would be Heirs within a decade!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#76 - 2012-12-25 11:22:59 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
Amarrians or who ever wish to enlighten me !

alot of things are hard for me to understand, even if i try hard to look to the core of things, but at moments like this eyeing ower the logs of transpired comunication, i simply cant understand, or grasp the reason ? ... A earlier Amarr speaker mentioned that minmatar wouldent be released until they were educated, something in the lines of their not ready, you are all fueled by your belief that you and only the Amarian way is the right way and anything else is hearacy and should be converted into the fold, now this said, does not the Amarrians themself comit heracy by being allied with the Caldari, to my understanding they are ewen more, or ewen further away from the spiritual beliefs of the Amarrians, then the Minmatar tribes, or is there a dubble standard here or does your faith only serve when the enemy is weaker, things just dont logically add up here, please do enlighten me !



Political imperatives.

Some conservatives back in the day pushed for an invasion of the State. It did not happen because they were a minority thinking that way.

Then, CONCORD was created, and the State signed it.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
So long as the Empire insists on the backward and inefficient anachronism that is Slavery they'll never get an opportunity to wipe out the State. Have you seen the way they do business? Our CEOs would be Heirs within a decade!


I am unsure if you are being serious or if that is actually a form of irony.

Considering that the Tash-Murkon family, wealthier than any Caldari megacorporation and owning around 8% of the New Eden total wealth, injected so much capital into Caldari markets during the crisis and decline they went through before YC 111, I find that rather ironic.

I also know that many Caldari think slavery inefficient, but the Amarr obviously do not seem to share that line of reasoning.
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-12-25 18:29:03 UTC
Pulivin Motic wrote:
I never understood why the Amarr would use slaves when cheaper more efficient methods were already available and abundant. Why not automate what drugged slaves have been doing? Why not hire experienced workers who will stimulate the local economy....

It is not about "stimulating the economy", it is about bringing civilization, technology, and a shared culture to worlds populated by dirt-scratching, poor people. We were enslaved, and it is one of the best things to ever happen to us. We have emerged as free people, citizens of the largest and greatest empire in the universe, unified where once there were just isolated bands of people scratching at the dirt for water. An Amarrian slave is less productive than a Caldari wageslave, but the Caldari don't need to invest in the future of their workers learning to becoming Caldari for the first time. Sayings like "The nail that stands up will be hammered down" don't make sense when you have taken on the responsibility for whole worlds of people who haven't even been metaphorically refined into the metal you would make "nails" out of yet.