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Drone boats useless in PvE?
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Sordeo Regius
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-12-25 04:32:25 UTC
I just started playing again and needed to isk up for some ships. I quickly noticed how useless my drone boat was against anomaly rats. I basically have to recall drones after every rat, sometimes more often than that. My isk per hour has gone significantly down. This has made my drone boat pretty much useless.

Are people just switching off drone boats now? Anomalies are very redundant, not sure what this AI patch was supposed to accomplish, just force people away from drone boats?
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-12-25 05:26:37 UTC
Use sentries. They're rarely targeted and even when they are, they can tank for a while so there's no hurry pulling them in.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-25 09:10:27 UTC
Target Painter.

You're welcome.
Sasha Vykos
Orphans of Perdition
#4 - 2012-12-25 09:30:54 UTC
Still using my Rattlesnake for levels 4's and after a few early niggles i'm breezing through them like I did before the patch.

NPC AI on some missions is a bit weird at times but I haven't lost a single drone since patch day, plus the addition of a TP does seem to help.

If your worried about frigs popping ur tech 2 lights, use tech, 1 cheap and easy to replace.

T
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-12-26 00:42:19 UTC
I believe this might help answer your questions:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=186445&find=unread

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-12-26 00:52:37 UTC
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Use sentries. They're rarely targeted and even when they are, they can tank for a while so there's no hurry pulling them in.


Actually, they're always targeted. Rats aggro drones according to size, frigs and cruisers on small drones, elite frigs and cruisers in addition on medium, BS and everything else on large and sentry. Sentries aggro everything, they just don't instapop as often.
Cris KillAlot
Anderson Arms Tech
#7 - 2012-12-26 04:37:41 UTC
hmm as far i expirence is that NPC frigs and Destroyers simply loves my drones... and lots of euqals dead drones... and imo it more or less made the drone boot useless in missions... since small nps will shred ypu drones... on my galente gun boots i just stop carrying any thing but L1 scout drones.. cheap.. and you can carry a lot.. which you gonna need!

All in all another nail in the coffin for all but tengu for misions.... which i think is realy sad... but then tengu have so imba for misions 2 years running that its not even funny... "good job ccp" striking whit your usually game balance. or should i game imbalance!

So nothing new, just fail!
Zaq Phelps
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-26 11:19:53 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Use sentries. They're rarely targeted and even when they are, they can tank for a while so there's no hurry pulling them in.


Actually, they're always targeted. Rats aggro drones according to size, frigs and cruisers on small drones, elite frigs and cruisers in addition on medium, BS and everything else on large and sentry. Sentries aggro everything, they just don't instapop as often.


NPC

NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.
Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.

From Retribution 1.07 patch notes.
Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-26 13:11:41 UTC
Which is actually a firther nerf to the drones.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-12-26 15:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Well, I don't fly droneboats a lot, but I don't think that using sentry drones is so much different than using, say, tachs. Very few rats can hit past 60-70 km even if they go nuts and will try to get your drones with fervor... Bouncers hit just fine at that range, Omnitracked Gardes should be fine too.

To get that range, well, I believe that MJD helps.

Also before I post more stuff, I'd say that with non-droneboats, rats don't hate little things that much. Maybe people who suggest to grab aggro with TP or something are actually right...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Arelia Nova
7 Dancers and a caldari Shuttle
#11 - 2012-12-26 16:58:32 UTC
Sasha Vykos wrote:
Still using my Rattlesnake for levels 4's and after a few early niggles i'm breezing through them like I did before the patch.

NPC AI on some missions is a bit weird at times but I haven't lost a single drone since patch day, plus the addition of a TP does seem to help.

If your worried about frigs popping ur tech 2 lights, use tech, 1 cheap and easy to replace.

T


Are you using sentry or heavy's now and what where you using before patch?
Cat Steele
Delphia Trust
#12 - 2012-12-26 18:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Steele
I am not a big drone boat user however I feel that light and medium drones have been rendered nearly useless. I just had a mission where I sent my drones out 5-6k, one was insta popped, and I lost two others before I could even retrieve them. This is with durability 5 and drone navigation 5.

I am all for adapting, but I must admit I'm a little pissed off that I trained those skills to 5 and basically they are worthless the way things stand right now.

EDIT:

After playing with the new AI mechanics for a while longer, I have learned to adapt. I no longer have an issue with the new AI.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#13 - 2012-12-27 10:58:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
I dont get it. Ppl that clearly roam the forums dont read the drone guide posts?


  • Use Sentries (always have gardes and some missionspecific long range variant)



  • NEVER use heavies againt anything else than close orbiting BSs



  • In fact never use any drones except against close orbiting ships



  • TP is your friend. TP 1 frig and drone the rest.



  • So tbh, never use any drones other than lights on orbiting frigs. Gardes can handle close orbiting BSs



Do this and ull have no drone aggro issues. I'm more hesitant to bring my Mael into missions with heavy frig action cause of the low light drone dmg.
Rengerel en Distel
#14 - 2012-12-28 03:43:15 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
I dont get it. Ppl that clearly roam the forums dont read the drone guide posts?


  • Use Sentries (always have gardes and some missionspecific long range variant)


  • NEVER use heavies againt anything else than close orbiting BSs


  • In fact never use any drones except against close orbiting ships


  • TP is your friend. TP 1 frig and drone the rest.


  • So tbh, never use any drones other than lights on orbiting frigs. Gardes can handle close orbiting BSs

Do this and ull have no drone aggro issues. I'm more hesitant to bring my Mael into missions with heavy frig action cause of the low light drone dmg.


TPs don't hold aggro, but are still your friend.
Not every ship can field sentries.
Heavies are nearly useless, it's too bad some ships are designed around using them instead of sentries.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-28 04:56:33 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
  • TP is your friend. TP 1 frig and drone the rest.

My experience with the target painter was that it did absolutely nothing, i tried painting a target i was shooting at, one i was not shooting at, small and large targets. The result was always the same, once i launched i set of medium drones i would have 5-8 cruiser switch to them within seconds. After several attempts i had lost 2 drones and 5 other was in deep armor.

I tested it flying a myrmidon in Sansha's Nation neural paralytic facility (5/10 DED exploration site), where pocket two has a total 16 cruisers and battlecruisers.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-12-28 07:03:17 UTC
Sentry drones do most damage of all drones. Sentries are nearly untouched by new NPCs.

NPCs absolutely tear mediums apart, but have hard time hitting light and fast drones, like warriors II.

So, either sentries or fast small drones.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#17 - 2012-12-28 09:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
If you read above there are many ideas about how to minimize aggro on your drones and they all work to slight degree's. In short Drone boats are no longer viable for PVE due to the effort and micro management now need to operate them. You will get far better ISK/phr and an easy time using a turret boat. The problem gets worse on a logarithmic scale the more dps your drones do compared to your highs.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#18 - 2012-12-28 09:09:30 UTC
NPC

NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.
Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.

From Retribution 1.07 patch notes.

This made the problem 99% worse, drone boats are simply not an option for competitive PVE, using turrets requires no micromanagement.

Drones have gone from the afk OP PVE boat of choice to useless in one patch. I'm not suggesting changing this back but players should change their strategy ie use turrets for NPC in non wormhole sec, just stating the facts.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-12-28 15:22:54 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
competitive PVE


Shocked What's that and where can I get some?

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-12-28 15:26:26 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Sentry drones do most damage of all drones. Sentries are nearly untouched by new NPCs.

NPCs absolutely tear mediums apart, but have hard time hitting light and fast drones, like warriors II.

So, either sentries or fast small drones.


Rats aggro drones according to size. Sentry, like heavies, get aggro from full range of rat sizes, they just tank it better. And they're not the most dmging, heavies are. Mediums doesn't get aggro from BS rats. Light drones aggro frig rats, and not elite frig rats, only regular, that's why they stay alive.
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