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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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New Eden Open - Feedback

First post
Author
Lazlo Ho
Another Day Older
#21 - 2012-12-03 01:50:37 UTC
More matches is better so consider, in the later days where there are less matches, revisiting previous ones via replay. See if you can get commentary from the pilot to go with it or something.

I can't think of anything else to offer. I like the broadcast as it is so if you change nothing I'll still tune in for the next one anyways.
MeagerMiner
#22 - 2012-12-03 04:28:25 UTC
I would pay 100 times over.. (oh wait, it was free).. 1000 times over to watch the next one... ..

The whole thing overall seemed to go very well. I enjoyed the whole show on the last day, delays and all.

Learned a lot from the content you guys provided..

Much thanks to the own3D TV people for makin this kick ass !!

Thanks to Razer for continued support too...

Appreciate all the hard work behind the scenes to make this happen from CCP staff .. on top of busting their asses for Retribution...
l0rd carlos
Goryn Clade
#23 - 2012-12-03 06:11:28 UTC
Romvex wrote:
I only have one quarrel with the overall tourney; PLEASE let ships use faction and deadspace mods, I just have a fetish with super pimped out alliance tournament ships being blown up. I really don't see the reason why they can only use t1 and t2. if there is an important reason someone please explain

It's because it should be about the best piloting skills, and not who can afford the most pimped out taction ship.
I like it how it is right now.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Edward Tivruskii
No Taxes for The Scope
#24 - 2012-12-03 06:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Tivruskii
so what about the tournament winner prediction give aways?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=173295



and for the criticism:
1) I had a blast. Great Tournament!

2) no bracket graphics ... I have never seen any tournament without a visual of the bracket situation ... how am I supposed to keep track of the tournament?
I complained about this every week and foxfour and whomever took note ... nothing changed in the course of 3 weeks. Is it that difficult to prepare them?
3) your team info slides looked ******
Axel Stryder
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-12-03 11:04:28 UTC
Get rid off CCP Dolan and you're good.
HaartSp
The Deliberate Forces
HYDRA RELOADED
#26 - 2012-12-03 13:30:29 UTC
Organizing enough people to practice can be one of the biggest obstacles for many teams, especially the smaller ones. It would be good if team size in each match was kept small in future tournaments. Maybe bring it down from 12 to 10 again or even 8 for alliance tournaments. Matches will be easier to follow and each pilot will matter that much more.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#27 - 2012-12-03 13:41:31 UTC
HaartSp wrote:
Organizing enough people to practice can be one of the biggest obstacles for many teams, especially the smaller ones. It would be good if team size in each match was kept small in future tournaments. Maybe bring it down from 12 to 10 again or even 8 for alliance tournaments. Matches will be easier to follow and each pilot will matter that much more.


Yeh this for sure.

Also some form of secure training on the test server. I do believe CCP are trying to work out something for this, and I believe secure training will encourage more teams to participate.
xo3e
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-12-03 13:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: xo3e
make "blind" banning: teams see opponents bans only when all bans are done.

or just dont tell first ban to team that bans second, because it gives advantage that based on random.

and do something with cap transfer turtles (seriously, that last Hitama-Ronin match was absolutely not cool).


also yeah, cash prizes are irrelevant (unless it is really huge numbers like in dota tournaments).
give more isk and unique ships instead.

and more importantly INGAME DECORATIONS (who needs medals that collect dusts in my hangar?? i need HUGE banner all over my avatar in eve that I AM SUPER TOUGH)

Signature removed. Navigator

cBOLTSON
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-03 16:15:30 UTC
I watched most of the matches and I have to say I enjoyed it. Some great team play from some of the teams the level of play has certainly gone up.

I would say two things.

1. I assume you are adding the videos to your youtube channel?

2. It would have been great if this tournament was advertised more in game, have Giant billboards by major stargates.

So yes looking forwards to the next Alliance tournament now. Hopefully we shall see some awesome rare ships as prizes again =D

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......

Nimbor
D.A.R.P.A.
#30 - 2012-12-03 16:35:44 UTC
i did not like the bans
i missed something exciting like the arena shrinking in size over time as the fight progresses
i didnt like the reflection of the bluescreen in the table
i feel alot of small hiccups could have been easily avoided with a test broadcast
i am sad alot of the mistake were being repeated during the tournament like the sounds issues
i did not like the middle weekend being in the Thanksgiving weekend
i missed at least the big names, or the single big alliance teams
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#31 - 2012-12-04 15:57:58 UTC

Feedback at random:
- Loved the new info overlay with moar bars!
- Add a 4th bar for capacitor, make it yellow or orange.
- Flash a person's name when they take damage (suggested above)
- Draw lines from Shooters to Targets on the overlay.
- Draw failed ECM faintly, draw successful ECM icon full-bright.
- Announcing is getting better - try to talk over each other less.
- Get own3d's replay player to not suck, stutter and lockup so often.
- Loved the bans mechanic - it seems just right (though it does increase ISK cost to participate quite a bit)

On the subject of cash prizes, team size and team identity:

Cash prizes and e-sports make better sense for smaller teams. It's easier to divide up, and there's less isk investment for 4v4 or 6v6 matches. A group of friends could easily get a team together without the need for alliance-level funding. There's also more sense of personal accomplishment, and you can focus on individual pilots more. 4v4 is probably a good size. I'd love to see lots of smaller teams in a big tournament than the number of big teams we had.

The alliance tournament should stay the big one with 12v12 (or more), and nothing but in-game prizes.

Other potential variations for the smaller e-sports tournaments (mostly brainstorming here):
- Limit ships and/or fittings to Tech I.
- Limit ship classes to only BC hulls or only Cruiser hulls, etc.
- Have theme tournaments with Gallente-only ships, or FW themes with Amarr vs. Minmatar only.
- Try giant free-for-all brawls, last man standing wins. (These could be fillers between alliance tournament matches as well as you get closer to the finals)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#32 - 2012-12-04 16:13:57 UTC
I have a point in relation to the "bars". While I was watching the replays of my matches, I felt slightly upset that the tremendously large amount of remote sensor boosting and projected ECCM on most of my setups was not able to be indicated to the viewers and thus let both them and the commentators understand why we were still in many cases able to shoot.

For example, there is the Attack bar, and for a direct comparison to that we look at in the Defence bar on the opposing team. This gives both viewers and commentators some sort of idea of each teams ability to deal with the amount of "attack", this results in an easily understandable comparison for the viewers and is great.

However, for the control bar, we only have an idea of the offensive side but no understanding how the opponents team can deal with that defensively. As much as a shield booster is a counter to a gun, a sensor booster, or more importantly, a remote sensor booster is a counter to a sensor dampener. Like wise ECCM and Projected ECCM are the counters for offensive Jamming modules. You could even argue that the possible speed of a team is a counter to long range webbing.

I feel it would be great in the next tournament if we could somehow be made aware through the tournament UI bars of each teams defensive ability against offensive E-War modules.

Tim fromaccounting
Ferrous Infernum
#33 - 2012-12-04 16:17:34 UTC
seeing the ships being fielded how bout this for an idea for future AT's

making it mandatory for teams to bring at least 1 ship from each faction
i feel this can have multiple positive effects
all-out ecm teams will be put off to some extend, but at least they know some if not all of their racial jammers stand good chance to hit.
it also provides a basis for out-of-the box thinking for setups
it provides a higher chance for newer people to come in to fly the smaller ships like assault frigs and dont necesarily have teams rely more on the very skill intensive ships like the sleipnir
it creates a little bit of higher prediction, as some ships are better in any single ship class, but this doesnt has to be a bad thing and this is still plenty of options possible still
Vlada Silni
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
#34 - 2012-12-05 15:00:27 UTC
First of all, im not kinda forum warrior so ill try to be very short on comments.

Tournament was great and i honestly hope we can see 2 of these tourneys a year.

What I feel bad is ingame reward. I was discussing it with my team, and we all agree it would be much better if we could get some piece of eve history (some kind of unique ship, item or something like that) that could lure more teams. Cash price is allways welcomed :)


Comments where good and cameraman did his job very well.
Banning rule looks great, and i would like to have it in all upcoming tourneys.

very good job CCP and thnx for having me in Jovian space :)
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#35 - 2012-12-06 12:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Buhhdust Princess
in my eyes;

Everything was spot on, from banning, to amount of people in a match, the team sizes etc. It all worked perfectly. The delays were a bit "meh" but that was bound to happen on the first ever NEO tourny, now u know and it wont happen again i bet!

Many people mentioning that they lost track of who was who etc, well thats great, thats exactly why this isnt the alliance tournament. you're now building NEW judgements on players and teams based on who they are individually, and who they are as a New Eden Open team. You don't see players in different tournaments going "Oh but he belongs to this gaming community, i hate them" but "Oh he's a great SC III player, he's awesome individually.

New views, starting from fresh, with a new aspect of PvP. I liked it, keep it this way, teams that participate regularlyy will get well known as they play more.

Also, CCP Dolan, what an improvement from Alliance tournament X, the emotion behind ur ranting and cheering was admirable :D i was like that on the edge of my seat!
-Buhhd
K0UM
CHON
THE R0NIN
#36 - 2012-12-06 17:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: K0UM
I will add some ideas how to make tourney more attractive for more players.

1) Make it available for everyone. Entry fee should be reasonable (5 PLEX max) and all teams should be accepted. Adjust format to accept all teams. Strong teams with tourney history could get free pass through 1st round of pre-qualification, all others will fight at least one battle in tourney arena.

2) Make it even cheaper. Dont allow hardwirings. This is only advantage for big rich teams. Bans were great. But 40mins between bans and fight means that you have to have ready many more ships then you will need. Longer interval would allow to have fewer ships fitted. (And bans should be blinded because advantage of second ban is really huge)

3) Prices should be given to more teams - at least 8. For most players it sounds impossible to win a tourney. It sounds realistic to get into quarterfinals or semifinals. BPC with one unique ship for each quartefinalist could attract more players then 50 unique ships for a winner. I cant see any reason to give 50 ships worth 2.000.000.000.000 ISKs to finalists and nothing to everyone else. Participation in a tourney is really costly and information that only finalists will be rewarded is demotivating.

4) Get rid of round robin system. Hydra's self destruct showed us why. Double elimination format was significantly better.

5) I would recommend to have much bigger tactical overlay window. Fights in arena are mostly about position in arena. But the window was too small to recognise anything.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#37 - 2012-12-06 18:01:27 UTC
K0UM wrote:
I will add some ideas how to make tourney more attractive for more players.

1) Make it available for everyone. Entry fee should be reasonable (5 PLEX max) and all teams should be accepted. Adjust format to accept all teams. Strong teams with tourney history could get free pass through 1st round of pre-qualification, all others will fight at least one battle in tourney arena.

2) Make it even cheaper. Dont allow hardwirings. This is only advantage for big rich teams. Bans were great. But 40mins between bans and fight means that you have to have ready many more ships then you will need. Longer interval would allow to have fewer ships fitted. (And bans should be blinded because advantage of second ban is really huge)

3) Prices should be given to more teams - at least 8. For most players it sounds impossible to win a tourney. It sounds realistic to get into quarterfinals or semifinals. BPC with one unique ship for each quartefinalist could attract more players then 50 unique ships for a winner. I cant see any reason to give 50 ships worth 2.000.000.000.000 ISKs to finalists and nothing to everyone else. Participation in a tourney is really costly and information that only finalists will be rewarded is demotivating.

4) Get rid of round robin system. Hydra's self destruct showed us why. Double elimination format was significantly better.

5) I would recommend to have much bigger tactical overlay window. Fights in arena are mostly about position in arena. But the window was too small to recognise anything.


Great points here!

SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Brand Newbros
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#38 - 2012-12-08 00:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Bigger prize pool. It really needs to be 3-4 times larger than it was to generate froth around people's jowels. If the out of game money isn't enough then throw in some in-game stuff to balance out the cost. The PLEX was nice, not going to lie.

CCP Falcon needs to spend a bit of time flying on a tournament team to get some experience. Maybe a player-run tournament, idk.

Continue to automate the arenas. Gladiator sports could become quite popular.

A much larger overview window showing positioning. Larger ship models in the commentator views?

Keep balancing the points. Stealth bombers could come down a point. Destroyers a half-point or even a full point. Industrials a point. Throw in rookie ships for 1 point? Take the logistics up a point.

Keep balancing the ships. Absos are not bad, but Astartes and Nighhawks could use some love. And maybe the EOS. The eos is not bad, but it is not great. Putting a 125m3 dronebay on it might make it better. :P

The ASB nerf was good. Turtle tanks and shield tanks in general were pretty imba. Local armor tanks are generally non-viable due to DPS/Tank tradeoff and not being able to fit oversized reppers and having to use extra slots for it. Obviously they are different "feels" I am not sure if they need to be changed or not.

The bans were good, but it was tough to get shipped if something unexpected happened. 40 minutes was tight for us, I assume it was tight for most teams. You almost have to base out of a market hub which can be tricky for some people with perpetual wardecs. To dock or switch a clone you are playing with fire.

If you want to turn it into a "game-of-skill" that would mean running it ISK-free and possibly giving people "All-5 characters" to fly in. This could be done on an arena server of some kind I guess. It depends which direction you want to go with it. Eliminating the ship/ammo/implant costs and skill trainings would eliminate all the barriers to entry other than the PLEX entry fee and put all teams on equal footing. It is something to try, anyway. Hell if you do this then throw in all the unique cruisers and frigates and see how a tournament like that goes. It would certainly add some spice to the format for a tournament.

I assume CCP will continue to iterate and improve on the successes that came up this tournament. For the first tournament of it's kind is was very successful. I hope to see more of these in the months to come.
Taipion
Adeptus Petrous
#39 - 2012-12-24 09:00:29 UTC
- Not on youtube (bad), not even by now (very bad)
- Impossible to watch on own3d.tv if you missed it or wanted to rewatch (straight showstopper)

- everything else was great, though
Julian DeCroix
Socialist Death Panel
#40 - 2013-02-08 18:03:57 UTC
Overall, I thought the tourney was phenomenal. As a spectator, I thought there was a good balance between flash and substance in both the commentating and presentation.

I have seen some very interesting comments in this thread so far, particularly those from people who participated in the tourney. I liked the new bars, but after reading through the thread, I wonder if they may become a slippery slope. For instance, as was said elsewhere, offense and defense are good, obvious "counters", but there are no clear indications of ECM effectiveness or the presence or effect of ECCM. Cap warfare is such an integral part of these engagements, but barely portrayed at all in the overlay. So including this information could be a wonderful addition...but then we start running into the problem of how to present it all. More bars? A bigger overlay? Will we eventually reach a point where the spectator never even sees a spaceship, just a bunch of names, numbers and bars? I guess I'm just concerned that if we add ways to track all the crucial information, we'll lose the "sport" aspect - it really will turn into a Battle of the Spreadsheets. I'm not sure what to do there; I'd love to know when someone is completely neuted into oblivion just as much as anyone, but I think we may need to be willing to let some information slide in deference to keeping it exciting to watch. The key will just be where that balance point is, I expect.

The bans added so much to the strategy metagame, I can't see ever going back to not including them. I liked the interviews with the team captains; they did a lot to give me (a relatively new player with very little exposure to EVE politics) some impressions of who these people were, and who I wanted to root for.

The only real negative I can come up with was Own3d's poor player/presentation, but seeing as they sponsored the event and are now defunct it feels like speaking ill of the dead, so I'll leave that one alone. I will say once more that having the videos in an AT-style playlist/format on the CCP YouTube channel would be quite welcome.

Anyhow, to all involved, thank you ever so much. I greatly enjoyed the show you put on, and eagerly anticipate similar future events. o7
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