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Need advice from the guys who know.
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Steve Watts
Astral Acquisitions Inc.
#1 - 2012-12-20 20:16:21 UTC
So im new to EVE online, met up with a cool corp who seem to know what they are on about and after talking with them mining seems like a good foundation to build on. I recently just trained my skills so that i can fly a retriever and have purchased one, the question im asking is, what would be an ideal setup to really earn the ISK. I've only been playing around a week or so, so please bare with me as i have no idea about 99% of the game still.

Here is a list of what skills i have and what im using.

Skills:

Mining lvl 4

Inustry lvl 5

Mining Barge lvl 1

And this is what im flying :

Retriever

Strip miner I

I dont know much but can safely say that is a pretty basic setup, just wondering if any of you guys can recommend what i can do to build on this.

Cheers, Steve.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#2 - 2012-12-20 20:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Toku Jiang
If you are serious about mining you want to increase your mining barge skill and your mining skills so that you can use T2 strip miners and T2 mining crystals.

As for a setup, you need to train mining upgrades if you haven't.

Setup in a retriever until you can get T2 strips would be to run T1 strips in the highs, fill the lows with mining upgrades (train until you can use the T2 version of these as well), and in the mids add whatever tank you think you can. If you are mining in high sec with a group, it may not be all that necessary, or if you have drones you should be able to kill enemy frigates fast enough with them not to pop.

You will also want to train astrogeology - it is a science skill that increased yield by 5% per skill level.
Dave Stark
#3 - 2012-12-20 20:51:29 UTC
electronics IV
mining upgrades IV

those two will let you fill a retriever's lows with t2 mlus. that's something i've trained fairly quickly on my mining alts once they're in a mining barge.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-12-20 21:50:49 UTC
Steve Watts wrote:
So im new to EVE online, met up with a cool corp who seem to know what they are on about and after talking with them mining seems like a good foundation to build on. I recently just trained my skills so that i can fly a retriever and have purchased one, the question im asking is, what would be an ideal setup to really earn the ISK. I've only been playing around a week or so, so please bare with me as i have no idea about 99% of the game still.


I dont know much but can safely say that is a pretty basic setup, just wondering if any of you guys can recommend what i can do to build on this.

Cheers, Steve.


Here is a post I made a few weeks back that explains in detail what skills to train and in what order based on training time and yield. Basically it shows the best, most optimal way to train your skills for maximum yield while training your skills.

Quick summary for you is:
Skills needed to get into a retriever
Drones IV
Mining drones I
971m3 - Strip miner I + MLUI + 4 mining drone I
1120m3 - 1d 16h - MSMII + crystal 1d 16h
1245m3 - 3d 12h - MLUII
1245m3 - 0d 19h - pyro miing crystal II
1245m3 - 0d 19h - scor miing crystal II
1296m3 - 1d 21h - Astrology IV
1347m3 - 10d 17h Astrology V
1347m3 - 5d 19h - drones V
1390m3 - 0d 17h - drone interfacing III
1525m3 - 9d 10h - mining drone oper V (mining drones II)
1556m3 - 4d 5h - drone interfacing IV
1556m3 - 21d 16h - Mining barge V
1576m3 - 4d 12h - Exhumers IV (Now in a mackinaw)
Musashi Date
#5 - 2012-12-22 20:07:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Musashi Date
And somewhere between Styth's timeline up there ^^^^^^, you can look into Augentations/Implants for the +3% mining increase Highwall implant (it's the standard methinks, and its relatively cheap)

There's a thread about a third party program ISK Per Hour, it has a very useful Mining calculation feature. I highly suggest you check it out,
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#6 - 2012-12-22 20:18:05 UTC
Don't forget the basics to give your ship a bit of a tank, nothing fancy to start off with but:

Shield Management - 5% bonus to ship Shield capacity
Shield Operation - 5% reduction in Shield recharge time
Mechanic - 5% bonus to Structure (hull)
Hull Upgrades - 5% bonus to Armor hit points

And some more general skills

Energy Management - 5% bonus to Capacitor capacity
Energy Systems Operation - 5% reduction in Capacitor recharge time
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#7 - 2012-12-22 23:14:00 UTC
Electronics skill, to give you more CPU, has already been mentioned.

Engineering skill does the same for your Power Grid stat, and is also useful to train up, because you can fit more flexibly with more grid (and more CPU).

Navigation makes your ship fly 5% faster per level. That may not sound important, but mining barges are slow, and often you'll want to move around in a belt.

You should without hesitation train these 3 skillz to level 4 very quickly (and also the two mentioned elsewhere, that gives you more Capacitor or faster recharge), and train them to 5 (all five of them) within a very few months. That's how good they are.

Also, all five skillz will remain useful for you if you, at a later point, decide to pursue another career, as long as it involves flying around in spaceships (i.e. is not station trading, or some kind of metagame career). Those five, and a few more, are ones you will never regret having trained all the way to 5.
Dudley North
Interstellar Investments and Securities
#8 - 2012-12-23 02:54:00 UTC
Bad news with the retriever is that it only has single mid-slot, so is pretty well impossible to tank.

If griefers/gankers target you, your ship will be toast. If this does become a problem consider switching to a procurer and put some tank on it, something like this:

Strip Miner I

Medium Shield Extender I
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Survey Scanner I

Damage Control I
Mining Laser Upgrade I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

5x Warrior I (to taste - but I like to get kill mails off gankers as they die scratching a minimal few % of the shield)

EHP is 49K+ depending on skills and the loss in production is quite low in comparison to the Retriever (although, of course, it doesn't have the retriever's ore hold).
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-12-23 04:20:15 UTC
Dudley North wrote:
Bad news with the retriever is that it only has single mid-slot, so is pretty well impossible to tank.

If griefers/gankers target you, your ship will be toast. If this does become a problem consider switching to a procurer and put some tank on it, something like this:

Strip Miner I

Medium Shield Extender I
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Survey Scanner I

Damage Control I
Mining Laser Upgrade I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

5x Warrior I (to taste - but I like to get kill mails off gankers as they die scratching a minimal few % of the shield)

EHP is 49K+ depending on skills and the loss in production is quite low in comparison to the Retriever (although, of course, it doesn't have the retriever's ore hold).


A retrievers low cost is its tank. Taking anything away from its yield is a waste. A retriever that someone tries to gank is in most situations going to be lost, so fit it for max yield and use the additional yield to pay for any retrievers you lose.

Each MLUII you don't have is equal to the cost of your ship every 20 hours, having just a MLUI is like 17 hours.

Retrievers are cheap, go for max yield. You can mine enough every 2 - 4 hours to replace the ship, so don't worry about tank.
Dudley North
Interstellar Investments and Securities
#10 - 2012-12-23 12:14:06 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:


A retrievers low cost is its tank. Taking anything away from its yield is a waste. A retriever that someone tries to gank is in most situations going to be lost, so fit it for max yield and use the additional yield to pay for any retrievers you lose.

Each MLUII you don't have is equal to the cost of your ship every 20 hours, having just a MLUI is like 17 hours.

Retrievers are cheap, go for max yield. You can mine enough every 2 - 4 hours to replace the ship, so don't worry about tank.



That thinking is fundamentally flawed. Keep fielding gankable ships and the gankers will be back and will keep blowing up the "easy kills" again and again and again. It keeps them doing it because there are so many untanked mining ships around.

I'm speaking from experince here. Our main mining system was continuously targeted by gankers until we started fielding tanked ships like the one I described. After losing ships to barges and exhumers (ships lost to concord don't appear on killboards, ships that have recieved ANY damage from a mining ship drone appear in their loss column) they left and haven't been back since.

People flying untanked mining ships is what keeps the greifers and gankers doing it. Fly an untanked ship and you aren't doing your fellow miners any favours. (Although TBH after playing with the tanked miner builds our guys have taken to putting out MORE mining ships in system with known gankers - they got a taste for the humiliation kills on gank ships)
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#11 - 2012-12-24 01:15:14 UTC
If you are going to fly untanked mining ships in Hi-Sec I would suggest you team up with some mission runners in your corp. Some missions provide a nice little private belt. (Recon 1 of 3 has a huge veldspar field in the last pocket and 2 gates where you can post a scout or have a short range d-scan to see gankers coming) Hi-Sec gankers normally can't be arsed to probe down targets and just fly around in belts because it's easy.

Another neat thing about mission mining is if you get a good mission in a .8 or higher there wont be any belt rat spawns so you can go untanked and bring in noob corp members with terrible skills to join you risk free aside from other players.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#12 - 2012-12-24 21:31:42 UTC
Retriever max yield is fine. High recommend for you 1.0 and 0.9 miners who use this ship with mining drones.

Mine with corporation fleets that have orca. (( 0.7-0.4 ))
Orca keeps a shield transporter on it. (( One way to add some extra safety ))
This lets you keep mining drones going since orca can kill off the rats.

If ganking is an issue due to one group of guys just bothering you switch out one mining upgrade for a damage control until they find out how worthless any attempt is.

If you plan on mining in orca fleet all the time start working toward a hulk.
Decesse
Uberfrazn Industries
#13 - 2012-12-25 20:00:53 UTC
if your going to go into mining, keep in mind, your character that your training will become an alt, so start planning on a 2nd character, a main character.

Go for the Mackinaw asap, then train for Orca, Dont ask why, just put that into your plans.
Once you have a mining/industrial/hauling and refining alt, your in pretty good shape to start on the combat alt.
I recommend you specialize your first 12M SP into frigates and Core skills, Elite turret control and things of that nature.

Later on you may want to skill your army swiss knife character into Trade skills, (about 8M SP) and maybe even Jump freighter at a much much later date.
Dave Stark
#14 - 2012-12-25 20:56:10 UTC
Dudley North wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:


A retrievers low cost is its tank. Taking anything away from its yield is a waste. A retriever that someone tries to gank is in most situations going to be lost, so fit it for max yield and use the additional yield to pay for any retrievers you lose.

Each MLUII you don't have is equal to the cost of your ship every 20 hours, having just a MLUI is like 17 hours.

Retrievers are cheap, go for max yield. You can mine enough every 2 - 4 hours to replace the ship, so don't worry about tank.



That thinking is fundamentally flawed. Keep fielding gankable ships and the gankers will be back and will keep blowing up the "easy kills" again and again and again. It keeps them doing it because there are so many untanked mining ships around.

I'm speaking from experince here. Our main mining system was continuously targeted by gankers until we started fielding tanked ships like the one I described. After losing ships to barges and exhumers (ships lost to concord don't appear on killboards, ships that have recieved ANY damage from a mining ship drone appear in their loss column) they left and haven't been back since.

People flying untanked mining ships is what keeps the greifers and gankers doing it. Fly an untanked ship and you aren't doing your fellow miners any favours. (Although TBH after playing with the tanked miner builds our guys have taken to putting out MORE mining ships in system with known gankers - they got a taste for the humiliation kills on gank ships)


moving systems would have yielded you more isk than mining in gimped ships. just throwing that out there to counter the three paragraphs of terrible advice you just spewed.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-12-26 08:44:03 UTC
Dudley North wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:


A retrievers low cost is its tank. Taking anything away from its yield is a waste. A retriever that someone tries to gank is in most situations going to be lost, so fit it for max yield and use the additional yield to pay for any retrievers you lose.

Each MLUII you don't have is equal to the cost of your ship every 20 hours, having just a MLUI is like 17 hours.

Retrievers are cheap, go for max yield. You can mine enough every 2 - 4 hours to replace the ship, so don't worry about tank.



That thinking is fundamentally flawed. Keep fielding gankable ships and the gankers will be back and will keep blowing up the "easy kills" again and again and again. It keeps them doing it because there are so many untanked mining ships around.

I'm speaking from experince here. Our main mining system was continuously targeted by gankers until we started fielding tanked ships like the one I described. After losing ships to barges and exhumers (ships lost to concord don't appear on killboards, ships that have recieved ANY damage from a mining ship drone appear in their loss column) they left and haven't been back since.

People flying untanked mining ships is what keeps the greifers and gankers doing it. Fly an untanked ship and you aren't doing your fellow miners any favours. (Although TBH after playing with the tanked miner builds our guys have taken to putting out MORE mining ships in system with known gankers - they got a taste for the humiliation kills on gank ships)


That isn't an issue of untanked mining ships since all the T1 mining barges even when giving up all your mining yield in exchange for tank are still easily gankable. The situation you described could easily be solved by players simply watching local, and assigning known ganking corps/alliances as bad/terrible standings, and asigning locals who you see frequently mining with good standing.

Not watching local or keeping track of the systems regulars is how you lose ships, not by adding tank and ruining your yields. If a ganker wants to take out a mining ship, they can and will, the'll just start throwing more ships at you.
Dudley North
Interstellar Investments and Securities
#16 - 2012-12-26 10:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dudley North
**&&^%$ing forum board ate my (long) post..........

TL;DR version, because I'm not typing it all again:

Suspect previous posters were relying on old data from prior to mining ship changes.

Just run the numbers through EFT, draw your own conclusions

T1 Procurer with DCU = 49000 ehp and 3.8% (that's three point eight %) "lost" mining rate.
Procurer with no DCU and 2 MLU = 36000 ehp = "full" mining rate and the same as a retriver.

Neither worth ganking (cost > kill).

Poster got tired of gankers, used method successfully. Poster can now point at incoming gankers and laugh without having to mess with extreme and flawed measures that in themselevs cut into mining time.

Very low level of cynical suspicion of those propagating the "fact" that t1 ships can't be tanked. (Stressed previous poster's commnets likely due to not running numbers and relying on recieved wisdom rather than other agenda).
Dave Stark
#17 - 2012-12-26 11:26:57 UTC
Dudley North wrote:
**&&^%$ing forum board ate my (long) post..........

TL;DR version, because I'm not typing it all again:

Suspect previous posters were relying on old data from prior to mining ship changes.

Just run the numbers through EFT, draw your own conclusions

T1 Procurer with DCU = 49000 ehp and 3.8% (that's three point eight %) "lost" mining rate.
Procurer with no DCU and 2 MLU = 36000 ehp = "full" mining rate and the same as a retriver.

Neither worth ganking (cost > kill).

Poster got tired of gankers, used method successfully. Poster can now point at incoming gankers and laugh without having to mess with extreme and flawed measures that in themselevs cut into mining time.

Very low level of cynical suspicion of those propagating the "fact" that t1 ships can't be tanked. (Stressed previous poster's commnets likely due to not running numbers and relying on recieved wisdom rather than other agenda).


and now check how much isk/hour your losing by mining in a ship with less yield, docks more frequently, loses more isk to popped roids unless you're actively short cycling because it has less lasers etc.

it's cheaper to replace a popped retriever than to mine in a procurer fit for tank.
Dudley North
Interstellar Investments and Securities
#18 - 2012-12-26 11:55:34 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
and now check how much isk/hour your losing by mining in a ship with less yield, docks more frequently, loses more isk to popped roids unless you're actively short cycling because it has less lasers etc.

it's cheaper to replace a popped retriever than to mine in a procurer fit for tank.


Certainly you'll have to select and fit your ships according to your individual playstyle including whether you operate alone or part of a group with hauler support.

Perhaps assuming the OP has friends or does something other than AFK mine was a mistake on my part. (You dock when mining? You don't select your target 'roids according to mineral content?).

Perhaps I also made the unwarranted assumption that many find the prospect of feeding ganker's killboards unappealing (I have been accused at various times of "not being a proper carebear").

If you really truely believe that "it's cheaper to replace a popped retriever than to mine in a procurer fit for tank." then by all means do so. I respectfully disagree.

Ironically, your arguments have in part convinced me, in that I'm now actively investigating setting up Retriver production, and I may change my advice to newbies should such a production line prove feasible................
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#19 - 2012-12-27 12:27:54 UTC

before the last update, a ROKH mined more than a retriever.
(ofc you needed to be fast on your moves unloading ore
into orca or can because of very small rokh cargo).

but i guess now this isnt true anymore. or at least i hope. lol.

and i am not getting out of my mack coz i am in love with it.
with a proper orca boost and t2 mining crystals
my mack does mine approx 2300 m3 per cycle per stripper.

oh did i mention i love my mack ? lol

kisses

leo
Echhan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-12-27 18:14:51 UTC
RE: Tanking

Staying aligned to a celestial at 3/4 speed and watching your D-Scan is the best "tank" you can have if ganking is a concern. In fact, always use D-Scan, regardless of what you are doing. Be aware of what's around you.

Mine as far from the beacon as possible. That way, when some dude shows up in a Wolf, for example you have a few seconds to decide what he's up to. Is he ratting? Fine. If he turns and comes after you, tap F1 and F2 to end your cycles, hit warp, and take off with no align time.

Give him no opportunity to bump you off.

"Remembah, best deefense: No bee theah." --Mr. Miyagi.