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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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One possible solution to an age old problem!

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#141 - 2012-12-22 03:51:25 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
THIS is active gameplay. Not crying to CCP to change a consolidated and working game mechanic only cause we're too lazy or unable to deal with it.

Freighters need an EHP buff.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#142 - 2012-12-22 04:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Xessej
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Xessej wrote:
My only issue with cloaks is the absolute lack of a counter. Every other form of defence/ECM has a counter that at least reduces the effectiveness of the tactic.


what lack of a counter?? Anyone with more than 1 week in 0.0 know how to counter.

Bait.
Send a juicy drake in ratter camuflage and when the evil cloacker show up to gank place a point and call your friends.
Just to say the most obvious counter.

And yes, can requires days, but still fun. Outplay him on the psycological level and make him fall in your trap. THIS is active gameplay. Not crying to CCP to change a consolidated and working game mechanic only cause we're too lazy or unable to deal with it.

And why would a cloaker attack a lone drake when he wants to bomb a mining op or light a cyno for a hotdrop? I'm interested in actual gameplay not in some wild fantasy where a guy wastes hours on end to pick up a Drake KM..
Ittos
Beards Confirmed
#143 - 2012-12-22 06:31:20 UTC
If the issue is afk players and has nothing to do with cloak like you seem to switch to believe, how does a pos structure that detects cloaked players prevent someone from going afk whilst docked or in a shield bubble? I want to be able to go into your system where you hold sov and not have to worry about those pesky docked players! Their psychological warfare of being totally immune to any module or skill I have effects my gameplay. Why not put in a high skill requirement probe that let's me force players to undock or out of a bubble? If they're atk they can just redock or fly back in. After all, why are they logged in menacing my gameplay if they're not atk?

In all seriousness, the only way someone afk can affect your gameplay is if you know they're there. If you don't know, then you operate as normal hence the suggestions to remove local or remove cloaky ships from local.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#144 - 2012-12-22 10:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Kingpin Nil wrote:
being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard

AFK ratting is only a punishable offense if done nearly 24/7, in a way a player who actively plays could not be able to do it. Doing it 12 hours a day mostly in the same spawn location with small bouts of actual at-keyboard stints to maybe change the location or collect loot or other such things is debatable, but probably acceptable. Doing it for the duration of one mission (and then another mission some other place, and then another, and so on) is perfectly fine, not even a single question there.
A droneboat is needed for that "punishable" status, no other semi-afk methods (say, FOF missile-boats, for instance) are viable (you need to come back every few minutes for them, you can't remain AFK and still keep making ISK).

As far as I know, all the other things below are perfectly fine by CCP standards, as should be.
If you think you KNOW things stand otherwise, please link official statement which makes it a punishable offense to do any of the things below.

AFK mining (no botting, just AFK until full)
AFK gang boosting.
AFK (highsec) hauling.
AFK (POS) repair.
POS reinforcement timers.
Manufacturing.
BPC creation.
BPO research.
PI extraction.
PI processing.
Contracts.
Market orders.
Player-placed bounties.
Forum auctions.
Forum propaganda.
...and other things...

What do you know, you can already affect the game pretty strongly other than AFK cloaking, on a wider scale too, in quite a few ways, without actually being at the keyboard, or even while you're not logged in at all.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Mag's
Azn Empire
#145 - 2012-12-22 10:07:47 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So let me get this right. You want to nerf cloaks because you misread or rely to much, upon the the intel local is giving you?

How is that balanced?


nerf cloaks? I don't understand why people continue to not bother reading my first post! why are so many people hell bend on misdirecting this thread?
You stated "Without destroying cloaking altogether!" So only destroying them a little? Sounds like an nerf.
You also said it was "to be used to detect cloaks." If that's not a nerf to cloaks, then what is?

But I have to ask. Why are you wanting to nerf cloaks, when they are not the cause of your problem?



the whole point is to eliminate afk cloakers! not the mechanics behind them! you can still use cloaks as they were intended and more! just not while being AFK for a long period of time!

I don't know why this is such a hard concept for many to understand?
Any change that means cloaks become detectable, is a nerf to cloaks. I don't know why this is such a hard concept, for you to understand.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#146 - 2012-12-22 10:17:59 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:

Irrelevant the issue is players going AFK! Why does this simple concept escape so many people?
No, not irrelevant. Because you need to understand WHY they go AFK and for what purpose. You even say yourself, that they are "used to disrupt null sec operations." You can't have it both ways, just because it doesn't suit your argument.

Answer me this. Whilst people are AFKing, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?



it's irrenlavent because my argument inst about reds making locals paranoid its about addressing being AFK
If it's irrelevant, then why do you talk about it?

Let's see what you said shall we.
Kingpin Nil wrote:
You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

why are you logging into eve just to remain afk?
So if your gripe is about affecting the game whilst AFK, please tell us just what mechanic they are using to do just that?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#147 - 2012-12-22 10:25:50 UTC
Xessej wrote:
My only issue with cloaks is the absolute lack of a counter. Every other form of defence/ECM has a counter that at least reduces the effectiveness of the tactic.

Why not have a, very expensive/hard to build/skill intensive, probe or module that lets you scan down a cloaked ship. If you make the cloaked ship have a very small sig it would be challenging to get a warp in quickly which means the alert cloaker would have time to warp to a new safe or log off. Once on grid the hunters would need to get close enough to actually decloak the cloaker so it would still be challenging for the hunters while encouraging active gameplay by both sides which seems to me to be what we all should want.
Cloaks already have counters. Can be decloaked and can't recloak when targeted or within decloak range.

If you want to reduce the effectiveness of AFKing. Then either close local or don't rely on or misread the intel it's giving.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#148 - 2012-12-22 10:33:35 UTC
AFK cloakers are ages old, sure, but a problem? Nope.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mirima Thurander
#149 - 2012-12-22 10:50:11 UTC
How about we remove local then if there afk u can't see them so u don't care!

If u cant see them how can u know to hide in station/pos.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#150 - 2012-12-22 10:55:04 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
How about we remove local then if there afk u can't see them so u don't care!

If u cant see them how can u know to hide in station/pos.


If you want to do a major change, then remove cloaking from non cov-ops/recon class ships.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2012-12-22 10:57:11 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
again why would you decide to go AFK? why would you get an advantage over someone that logged off as opposed to someone deciding to go AFK for a while?



so now I need to log off every time I take a ****? what if I have diarrhoea? or need to take a ****? or grab some food? or go at the door to see who knocked? feeding the pets?

I could put here several reasons why.


also, if the afk cloaker is attacking you, he isn't really afk now is he?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#152 - 2012-12-22 11:21:43 UTC
AFK cloaking the problem that isn't a problem while we're heading for page 9!Lol
jamesoverlord
Black Layer Syndicate
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#153 - 2012-12-22 11:33:38 UTC
all i can see is more tears from the carebears jesus guys you idiot carbears are going to finish this game off carrying on the way you are change this change that since you lot started getting your own way with ccp nearly all elements of pvp are dieing stop moaning and learn to fight
Mag's
Azn Empire
#154 - 2012-12-22 11:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Pak Narhoo wrote:
AFK cloaking the problem that isn't a problem while we're heading for page 9!Lol
That's because people make suggestions, without understanding the subject. Then refuse to accept their failings, when others point them out.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#155 - 2012-12-22 11:49:48 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
it's irrenlavent because my argument inst about reds making locals paranoid its about addressing being AFK
…and the question we keep coming back to is: why does being AFK need to be addressed?
What's the problem with people being AFK when they're doing absolutely nothing while they're away?
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-12-22 11:53:56 UTC
First hour back after a nearly a year away and what threads top in GD? AFK cloaking......
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#157 - 2012-12-22 12:03:34 UTC
Sigh.... this topic again.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CLOAKING MECHANIC!

The only problem is how people react (OR lack of proper reaction)

Nullbear see cloaker and instead of going -
"Hey guys theres a enemy cloaked in our system, lets bait him / trap him / form a fleet in the next system / ANY other idea"

No, instead the nullbear goes - "Waaaahhh theres a cloaker , im going to go dock up as im scared of what he might do to me"

never even realising he could just move a jump or two over or try and kill that cloaker.

Its sad and pathetic.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Alice Fiorina
Doomheim
#158 - 2012-12-22 12:07:38 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:


so far only one person has been able to understand the whole point of this thread.


Not agreeing with you is not the same as not understanding.

You think there is a problem with AFK cloaking.

There is not.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#159 - 2012-12-22 12:11:53 UTC
Xessej wrote:

And why would a cloaker attack a lone drake when he wants to bomb a mining op or light a cyno for a hotdrop? I'm interested in actual gameplay not in some wild fantasy where a guy wastes hours on end to pick up a Drake KM..


Omg, was only a damned example, since the discussion was about AFK cloackers denying ratting. But can adapt the concept, don't have to litteraly send out a drake everytime there's someone cloacked! The sense was: find a proper way to make him decloack in a situation where you can trap him.

And since when bombing a mining op or hotdropping a fleet is not "active gameplay"??

The only problem yhis thread (as many others of the same kind) adress is the inability for few players to accept the idea (a base idea in EvE) that their gameplay can be influenced by other players and their will to negate any challange and any kind of player to player interaction if not with their consent and in their specific terms.

So, instead of adapting and putting some gameplay effort the only way they find "to counter" is sitting in station doing nothing and asking for CCP to do the job they're too lazy or too inable to do, adding/nerfing some well-known, consolidated amd fun for the rest of EvE, game mechanic.
Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#160 - 2012-12-22 16:15:05 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Xessej wrote:

And why would a cloaker attack a lone drake when he wants to bomb a mining op or light a cyno for a hotdrop? I'm interested in actual gameplay not in some wild fantasy where a guy wastes hours on end to pick up a Drake KM..


Omg, was only a damned example, since the discussion was about AFK cloackers denying ratting. But can adapt the concept, don't have to litteraly send out a drake everytime there's someone cloacked! The sense was: find a proper way to make him decloack in a situation where you can trap him.

And since when bombing a mining op or hotdropping a fleet is not "active gameplay"??

The only problem yhis thread (as many others of the same kind) adress is the inability for few players to accept the idea (a base idea in EvE) that their gameplay can be influenced by other players and their will to negate any challange and any kind of player to player interaction if not with their consent and in their specific terms.

So, instead of adapting and putting some gameplay effort the only way they find "to counter" is sitting in station doing nothing and asking for CCP to do the job they're too lazy or too inable to do, adding/nerfing some well-known, consolidated amd fun for the rest of EvE, game mechanic.

I accept my gameplay will be affected by other players. That's why I use available means to gather intel and adjust my gameplay to match the existing circumstances.

The point people have been trying to make, since the sov changes over a year ago that made this more of an issue, is that an AFK cloaker does, and should, affect the use that can be made of an upgraded system. Which reduces the income the system can generate for the sov holders which discourages players from moving out to nullsec.

As to why does an AFK cloaker affect players use of a system because those other players do not view their non PvP oriented ships as nothing but your future km.

That does not mean those players expect to do their thing totally unmolested. But it does mean they have some way of measuring risk which my proposal would give them note that a not AFK cloaker would be in next to no danger from my idea.

BTW precisely what part of being AFK is a fun "game mechanic."