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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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One possible solution to an age old problem!

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#101 - 2012-12-21 16:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
This would imply that you should be allowed to be forever invisible.
Fancy that…

Quote:
It may actually make cloakers have to do something like jump safes while waiting on the cooldown, or lose eyes for a bit, you know actually being active.
Why should they have to do anything like that? If they're AFK, what's the problem, and if they're not, they're active by default.

Kingpin Nil wrote:
the whole point of the post is about AFK players!
…and not about cycles or cool-down timers — things that would break cloaking.

Quote:
you are for some strange reason trying to misdirect the thread!
Discussing why bad solution to a non-problem causes actual problems for others because it's so bad counts as “misdirection” now? No, I'm not. I'm arguing that the whole problem is in your head, and that is where you need to look for a solution.

Jantunen the Infernal wrote:
How to spot someone who doesn't understand mechanics or nullsec 101.
1. Cannot provide a good argument why something suggested is good or bad. ✓
2. Assumes that nullsec should provide automated safekeeping. ✓
3. Shows unawareness of the side-effects of any change proposed across all kinds of space. ✓

Yup. You're quite easy to spot. Akita T, on the other hand, doesn't seem to tick any of those boxes.
Ginger Barbarella
#102 - 2012-12-21 16:50:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
you are for some strange reason trying to misdirect the thread!
Discussing why bad solution to a non-problem causes actual problems for others because it's so bad counts as “misdirection” now? No, I'm not. I'm arguing that the whole problem is in your head, and that is where you need to look for a solution.


But let's be honest here, you *ARE* one of the better posters here at complete obfuscation and talking around the actual topic, ya know. Blink

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#103 - 2012-12-21 17:01:59 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
you are for some strange reason trying to misdirect the thread!
Discussing why bad solution to a non-problem causes actual problems for others because it's so bad counts as “misdirection” now? No, I'm not. I'm arguing that the whole problem is in your head, and that is where you need to look for a solution.


But let's be honest here, you *ARE* one of the better posters here at complete obfuscation and talking around the actual topic, ya know. Blink


Thank You.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Borascus
#104 - 2012-12-21 17:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
The purpose of a bona fide (good sound) AFK Cloaker isn't to be away from the keyboard, it is to be inactive in a system cloaked.


The "AFK-Cloaker" sits in a system cloaked (usually Force Recon moreso than bombers anyway) when someone enters an anomaly, the AFK-Cloaker will watch d-scan, then either warp-to covert cyno, warp to add more dps to the ratter, warp to ecm/disrupt the ratter and call for neighbourhood reinforcements.


The point that oftentimes escapes these arguments is that the AFK-Cloaker is on a separate account and the other person is routinely ratting/chatting on comms/mining.


The reason these threads started is because the afk-cloaker gathers intel (not gonna happen whilst afk as only local shows who is in system) whilst having no need to move.

The solution was simple - a. cloak uses cap / lowers cap regen b. a module is invented that decloaks other ships in system (would be milked to death on "good fights" gate camps).

Bearing in mind that the afk-cloak has travelled through 10 systems to get to the hub system everyone is in (AH-B84 for example) all the intel channels should have been able to report the ship type, new mining barges can defend against a single bomber (12k Shield vs 5k bomb?) you'd need to tackle and drone-kil it.

The current new risk is the Recon, that would cloak (HIGHER risk of being caught at gates btw) and wait til it found something to allow a huge blob to descend on, using a covert cyno / cynosural generator.


rat whilst aligned, or have a standing fleet, reporting your location whenever an afk-cloaker is in your system.


Just to confirm: the highest risk from an afk cloaker is when there is only 1 person in system other than the cloaker, and it's you.


If you have a mining fleet, and intel hasn't reported 10 ships within jump range what risk is posed?

If you are ratting in a myrmidon or ishtar, a nightmare or mega, any kind of battlecruiser.... what real risk is posed?

PvE fit? Scared of fights? no reinforcements to counter hotdrop? the bomb breaks your tank vs sanctum?


No reason to put every excuse out there but this issue is largely countered already.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#105 - 2012-12-21 17:08:21 UTC
Solve the problem with an AFK indicator in the local.

Little red dot appears next to the name.


fixed. Red dot dissappears, the guy put in a command or something.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-12-21 17:44:00 UTC
Why people think this needs a solution is beyond me. Furthermore I don't get why people are suggesting such ridiculous measures as removing local from nullsec, or removing cloaked ships from local.
I get the feeling these people don't even live there.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Theresa Lamont
Rogue Fleet
#107 - 2012-12-21 17:59:49 UTC
When is the 1st Cloackageddon?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#108 - 2012-12-21 18:10:52 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
Solve the problem with an AFK indicator in the local.

Little red dot appears next to the name.


fixed. Red dot dissappears, the guy put in a command or something.
Which would make things worse for these people and boost psychological warfare.

Just like every other AFK timer idea.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#109 - 2012-12-21 18:17:10 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
you are for some strange reason trying to misdirect the thread!
Discussing why bad solution to a non-problem causes actual problems for others because it's so bad counts as “misdirection” now? No, I'm not. I'm arguing that the whole problem is in your head, and that is where you need to look for a solution.


But let's be honest here, you *ARE* one of the better posters here at complete obfuscation and talking around the actual topic, ya know. Blink
If people actually read and understood logic, then Tippia's posts make perfect sense in regards to the subject at hand.

The biggest issue most have with Tippia, is that he makes them look at their idea properly for the first time. Many simply refuse to do this, as their ideas tend to falls apart rather quickly. It's at this point people then start attacking him and his posts, rather than his points.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#110 - 2012-12-21 18:21:12 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
Solve the problem with an AFK indicator in the local.

Little red dot appears next to the name.


fixed. Red dot dissappears, the guy put in a command or something.
Which would make things worse for these people and boost psychological warfare.

Just like every other AFK timer idea.

Anything that boosts psychological warfare capabilities is probably a good thing.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#111 - 2012-12-21 18:54:19 UTC
Just remove local already. If nothing else it would end AFK cloaker threads.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-12-21 18:57:41 UTC
FACT OF THE DAY

In nearly a decade of EVE, not a single person has died to someone who is AFK

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#113 - 2012-12-21 19:23:41 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
AFK cloaking exists because of local.

Remove local and AFK cloaking will not exist because there will be no reason to afk cloak in the first place. Then these AFK cloakers can instead focusing on actually blowing stuff up instead of engaging in a poor mechanics psychological warfare.

And yes, the mechanics is frigging awful as it is.

"Hiiiii everyone, I r here sitting in an invisible ship and u cannot harmz me!!! R u scaaaaaared?"

Really?

Where is the whole "sneaking up on a unsuspecting victim without anyone knowing you are there and blasting him to kingdom come and then run like hell" in all of this?

Surely the latter is a much better option for everyone? Well, except the one who ends up as fireworks that is. Or is this "too harsh for EVE these days"?




Irrelevant the issue is players going AFK! Why does this simple concept escape so many people?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#114 - 2012-12-21 19:25:21 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
We’re all aware of CCP’S stance on playing eve while AFK! Botters, warp to zero at the gate exploits all punishable offensives! So why are AFK cloakers getting a free ride?


Your logic failed at this point, so I didn't read the rest.
If you can not see why, I see no further point discussing the issue with you.


This.

Another attempt to fix something which isn't broken. There's way too much of this in GD.


care to elaborate why you don't think AFK players are a bad thing?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#115 - 2012-12-21 19:27:48 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So let me get this right. You want to nerf cloaks because you misread or rely to much, upon the the intel local is giving you?

How is that balanced?


nerf cloaks? I don't understand why people continue to not bother reading my first post! why are so many people hell bend on misdirecting this thread?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#116 - 2012-12-21 19:35:35 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

why are you logging into eve just to remain afk?


I think you're the one that is missing the point here, both in your understanding of the topic (AFK cloakers) and people answering your own question.

WHY people log in just to walk away is IRRELEVENT. They do because they ARE PLAYING THE GAME. You seem to insist that game mechanics and play styles be restricted even further to suit a very, VERY small minority of players: those that get paranoid seeing someone in local and not being able to find them.

WHY I choose to log in JUST to afk cloak is to play MY game, regardless of whether you think it's fair or not. Simple fact is that it's part of the game. I choose to afk cloak to either a) screw with you, or b) because something comes up in RL and I CHOOSE not to log out because I'm in a position to play the game AND take care of my RL issue.

Quit trying to tell people in a lame passive-aggressive way to play your way and not theirs. If they choose to park a Nemesis somewhere in the system you AFK mine in, that's your problem, not the problem of everyone else playing EveO.

I don't think a damn thing needs to be "fixed" and the more tears and threads I read here about this topic the more I'm firmly in that camp. Remove AFK cloakers from local? Sure, why not? I'd just find another way to screw with you (like dropping a can announcing I'm here).


you are putting words into my month! yet another attempt to discredit and misdirect the thread!

by reading the very first post any educated human being can clearly understand my point I'm trying to make!

it funny by your logic you believe you have the right to do whatever you want in eve regardless of the many other players! and here I'm only suggesting one simple idea to remove what's left of the afk element.

why do you think your special enough to effect how others play the game?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#117 - 2012-12-21 19:37:40 UTC
Alice Fiorina wrote:

Cloaks having timers and using fuel are both going to affect non-afk cloakies.

Why should they suffer for your paranoia?


have you read my first post?

its not about anything other then getting rid of player going afk!

why should non existent players still affect game play?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-12-21 19:39:01 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Alice Fiorina wrote:

Cloaks having timers and using fuel are both going to affect non-afk cloakies.

Why should they suffer for your paranoia?


have you read my first post?

its not about anything other then getting rid of player going afk!

why should non existent players still affect game play?

I'm pretty sure they exist, yo.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ginger Barbarella
#119 - 2012-12-21 19:52:26 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
why do you think your special enough to effect how others play the game?


Wow. Just--- wow. This one statement shows you truly don't understand this game.

Done. I'm out. 3/10 for getting so many to bite. Kudos.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Mag's
Azn Empire
#120 - 2012-12-21 19:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So let me get this right. You want to nerf cloaks because you misread or rely to much, upon the the intel local is giving you?

How is that balanced?


nerf cloaks? I don't understand why people continue to not bother reading my first post! why are so many people hell bend on misdirecting this thread?
You stated "Without destroying cloaking altogether!" So only destroying them a little? Sounds like an nerf.
You also said it was "to be used to detect cloaks." If that's not a nerf to cloaks, then what is?

But I have to ask. Why are you wanting to nerf cloaks, when they are not the cause of your problem?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.