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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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One possible solution to an age old problem!

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Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#81 - 2012-12-21 12:12:15 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:


You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

so many people are so eager to direct this conversation away from the simple point I'm trying to make! why are you logging into eve just to remain afk? I made a number of suggestions and workable solutions and I will be enquiring to ccp directly over this matter and passing on this threat for further review.

i will also post their in game response to some question relating to this topic stay tuned.


But if you are not stopped from doing anything while the cloaked red is in local, how exactly is he affecting the game?



how do you tell if someone's playing eve at their keyboard or at work?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#82 - 2012-12-21 12:14:45 UTC
dexington wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.


Happens all the time, you can not use that as an argument to change cloaking mechanics.



its not about changing how the cloak works or how someone can use a cloak! its about removing afk players.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#83 - 2012-12-21 12:29:41 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:


You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

so many people are so eager to direct this conversation away from the simple point I'm trying to make! why are you logging into eve just to remain afk? I made a number of suggestions and workable solutions and I will be enquiring to ccp directly over this matter and passing on this threat for further review.

i will also post their in game response to some question relating to this topic stay tuned.


But if you are not stopped from doing anything while the cloaked red is in local, how exactly is he affecting the game?



how do you tell if someone's playing eve at their keyboard or at work?



It's not important where that someone is. He can be climbing Mount Everest as far as I'm concerned. The place where the other guy is does not affect the game.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#84 - 2012-12-21 12:42:36 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others?

UghRoll

Remove standings and insurance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2012-12-21 12:51:08 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
you should read the first post!
…which mentions nothing of the kind so that's not particularly helpful.

Quote:
how do you tell if someone's playing eve at their keyboard or at work?
You check to see if he follows you around.

Quote:
its not about changing how the cloak works or how someone can use a cloak! its about removing afk players.
Why? What's the problem? It's not like AFKers can do anything or pose any kind of threat. Why are you so hell-bent on removing something that is not even remotely an issue?

Brooks Puuntai wrote:
It would make cloaking and going to sleep next to impossible without breaking the EULA. It would also give people a chance to catch cloakers while they are in between timers, and lastly depending on the length of the timers it shouldn't really "break" cloaking.
Anything that exposes active cloakers breaks cloaking and severely ruins w-space gameplay. A cycle timer will auto-repeat and won't have any effect on AFK people; a cycle timer that automatically shuts off the cloak after 1 hour (or whatever) will have to have zero cool-down so the active cloaker can double-tap it and keep it going uninterrupted… and AFK cloakers will easily work that in making it a rather pointless addition.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#86 - 2012-12-21 12:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Quote:
You were never means to use cloaks as a tool while you did not play the game.


We dont have (logicaly) PAUSE function in this game and if you need to go afk for a while, its great replacement for pause button (if you have flag on you and you are in deep space without stations to dock for example).

And if someone uses it to disturb your null operations? So what?! There are far more unfair tactics in this game as AFK "anything" (like undestructible trash around gates to decloak ships)

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#87 - 2012-12-21 13:00:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Brooks Puuntai wrote:
It would make cloaking and going to sleep next to impossible without breaking the EULA. It would also give people a chance to catch cloakers while they are in between timers, and lastly depending on the length of the timers it shouldn't really "break" cloaking.
Anything that exposes active cloakers breaks cloaking and severely ruins w-space gameplay. A cycle timer will auto-repeat and won't have any effect on AFK people; a cycle timer that automatically shuts off the cloak after 1 hour (or whatever) will have to have zero cool-down so the active cloaker can double-tap it and keep it going uninterrupted… and AFK cloakers will easily work that in making it a rather pointless addition.


This would imply that you should be allowed to be forever invisible. It may actually make cloakers have to do something like jump safes while waiting on the cooldown, or lose eyes for a bit, you know actually being active.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Skawl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-12-21 13:11:19 UTC
Akita T wrote:

The only problem with AFK cloaking is when an AFK cloaker returns, not with him remaining AFK. Attempting to address the AFK part is pointless and counterproductive, since CCP will never care about your argument. If you want to do something that has any chances, address the ADVANTAGE AT RETURN and nothing else.
I've said all that needed to be said, feel free to go back and re-read it.


Genuinely the most sensible thing that's ever been said about AFK cloaking.

Now, I'm off to move my alts around.
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#89 - 2012-12-21 13:23:23 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:


You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

so many people are so eager to direct this conversation away from the simple point I'm trying to make! why are you logging into eve just to remain afk? I made a number of suggestions and workable solutions and I will be enquiring to ccp directly over this matter and passing on this threat for further review.

i will also post their in game response to some question relating to this topic stay tuned.


But if you are not stopped from doing anything while the cloaked red is in local, how exactly is he affecting the game?



how do you tell if someone's playing eve at their keyboard or at work?



It's not important where that someone is. He can be climbing Mount Everest as far as I'm concerned. The place where the other guy is does not affect the game.



you've missed the point again!
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#90 - 2012-12-21 13:23:57 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others?

UghRoll



what was your point quoting this?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#91 - 2012-12-21 13:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kingpin Nil
Tippia wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
you should read the first post!
…which mentions nothing of the kind so that's not particularly helpful.

Quote:
how do you tell if someone's playing eve at their keyboard or at work?
You check to see if he follows you around.

Quote:
its not about changing how the cloak works or how someone can use a cloak! its about removing afk players.
Why? What's the problem? It's not like AFKers can do anything or pose any kind of threat. Why are you so hell-bent on removing something that is not even remotely an issue?

Brooks Puuntai wrote:
It would make cloaking and going to sleep next to impossible without breaking the EULA. It would also give people a chance to catch cloakers while they are in between timers, and lastly depending on the length of the timers it shouldn't really "break" cloaking.
Anything that exposes active cloakers breaks cloaking and severely ruins w-space gameplay. A cycle timer will auto-repeat and won't have any effect on AFK people; a cycle timer that automatically shuts off the cloak after 1 hour (or whatever) will have to have zero cool-down so the active cloaker can double-tap it and keep it going uninterrupted… and AFK cloakers will easily work that in making it a rather pointless addition.



the whole point of the post is about AFK players!

you are for some strange reason trying to misdirect the thread!
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#92 - 2012-12-21 13:32:46 UTC
Roime wrote:
Two better options:

A. Remove local from nullsec

...but since they couldn't find fights or use their bots and will ragequit, plan B:


B. Make cynos only mountable on BLOPS, change the skill from 5x to 8x, and add Electromagnetic Physics V to prerequisites.

This should deal with the general power projection problem as well.




Right..BLOPS need a cyno to BLOPS. Do you see the problem here? A sin can't actually go out and tackle anything either.
Jantunen the Infernal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-12-21 13:56:59 UTC
Akita T wrote:
In case you did not know what AFK stands for, it means "Away From Keyboard".
As in, a person who can't possibly ever kill you while he is in that particular state.
Any "damage" an AFK cloaker can possibly do is self-inflicted fear-induced loss of earning opportunity.
Also, can't go on for weeks without breaks. We still have daily downtimes.

The simplest "fix" to the so-called "problem" of AFK cloakers is...
...removing cloaked ships from "local".
Now you either constantly crap your pants at the POSSIBILITY of somebody being there, or you just suck it up and go about your business the way you actually should if you have a "known" AFK cloaker in the system.
But that's waaaay too ballsy, eh ?

As to why that would be a solution - think spy alt plus logon trap.
I dare you to explain what the radical conceptual difference might be there other than the time spent e-warping for the logoff-trapper and slightly less preparation for the mostly-AFK-cloaker.
And why the AFK cloaking "has to be fixed" but the other not.
And if you plan to fix both, pray tell, how exactly would you fix the logged off guy's "threat" ?


How to spot someone who doesn't understand mechanics or nullsec 101.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-12-21 14:07:40 UTC
AFK cloaking exists because of local.

Remove local and AFK cloaking will not exist because there will be no reason to afk cloak in the first place. Then these AFK cloakers can instead focusing on actually blowing stuff up instead of engaging in a poor mechanics psychological warfare.

And yes, the mechanics is frigging awful as it is.

"Hiiiii everyone, I r here sitting in an invisible ship and u cannot harmz me!!! R u scaaaaaared?"

Really?

Where is the whole "sneaking up on a unsuspecting victim without anyone knowing you are there and blasting him to kingdom come and then run like hell" in all of this?

Surely the latter is a much better option for everyone? Well, except the one who ends up as fireworks that is. Or is this "too harsh for EVE these days"?
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#95 - 2012-12-21 14:13:23 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
We’re all aware of CCP’S stance on playing eve while AFK! Botters, warp to zero at the gate exploits all punishable offensives! So why are AFK cloakers getting a free ride?


Your logic failed at this point, so I didn't read the rest.
If you can not see why, I see no further point discussing the issue with you.


This.

Another attempt to fix something which isn't broken. There's way too much of this in GD.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#96 - 2012-12-21 14:24:34 UTC
So let me get this right. You want to nerf cloaks because you misread or rely to much, upon the the intel local is giving you?

How is that balanced?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-12-21 14:27:07 UTC
The simplest solution for anyone who dislikes any AFK activity would be to have an auto-logoff function after a long time - like an hour, two hours, or even three hours.

After X hours of no activity the game logs you out.

But, is this really a problem? I've had AFK cloakies doing their AFK thing in 0.0 space with me before and it really wasn't a problem.... so.. shrug. Doesn't matter to me.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#98 - 2012-12-21 14:29:42 UTC
Fractal Muse wrote:
The simplest solution for anyone who dislikes any AFK activity would be to have an auto-logoff function after a long time - like an hour, two hours, or even three hours.

After X hours of no activity the game logs you out.

But, is this really a problem? I've had AFK cloakies doing their AFK thing in 0.0 space with me before and it really wasn't a problem.... so.. shrug. Doesn't matter to me.
Auto log off systems are easily bypassed, without breaking the EULA and would actually be a boost to psychological warfare.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ginger Barbarella
#99 - 2012-12-21 14:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Kingpin Nil wrote:
You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

why are you logging into eve just to remain afk?


I think you're the one that is missing the point here, both in your understanding of the topic (AFK cloakers) and people answering your own question.

WHY people log in just to walk away is IRRELEVENT. They do because they ARE PLAYING THE GAME. You seem to insist that game mechanics and play styles be restricted even further to suit a very, VERY small minority of players: those that get paranoid seeing someone in local and not being able to find them.

WHY I choose to log in JUST to afk cloak is to play MY game, regardless of whether you think it's fair or not. Simple fact is that it's part of the game. I choose to afk cloak to either a) screw with you, or b) because something comes up in RL and I CHOOSE not to log out because I'm in a position to play the game AND take care of my RL issue.

Quit trying to tell people in a lame passive-aggressive way to play your way and not theirs. If they choose to park a Nemesis somewhere in the system you AFK mine in, that's your problem, not the problem of everyone else playing EveO.

I don't think a damn thing needs to be "fixed" and the more tears and threads I read here about this topic the more I'm firmly in that camp. Remove AFK cloakers from local? Sure, why not? I'd just find another way to screw with you (like dropping a can announcing I'm here).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Alice Fiorina
Doomheim
#100 - 2012-12-21 15:54:14 UTC

Cloaks having timers and using fuel are both going to affect non-afk cloakies.

Why should they suffer for your paranoia?