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Rookie ISK making is not scaling with recent inflation
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Xuahn
McDermott Industries
#21 - 2012-12-20 19:32:10 UTC
I agree there is methods for them to make money out there. We are talking about brand new players, most of whom may not even know who or what the SoE is.

Its tough for complete newbies, that is unless the tutorial has been updated significantly, I don't think I have seen the tutorial since 2006.

Still I remember thinking how impossible it would be to get the 4mil needed for a cruiser, not to mention the skill book, back when I started.

Plus there is that new player channel that they can ask questions in, that's still around right?
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-20 19:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dheeradj Nurgle
I agree, I recently made alt, acting like a Newbro/sis. Actually getting the money for your first Cruiser(Rupture in this case) can deplete your Wallet, even with the SOE Arc,.

Xuahn wrote:


Plus there is that new player channel that they can ask questions in, that's still around right?


Yeah, first 30 days you are forced in there. Leaving it, and logging out will kick you right back in. Atleast STAR is pretty active there.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-12-20 21:05:42 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Once you're able to do Level 3's regularly, you're past the point that the OP's worrying about - the point where you've got to invest in your first cruiser. The concern is for people for whom a cruiser is a potentially bank-breaking investment, and for whom a battlecruiser is a pipe dream.


the 1st week then ?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#24 - 2012-12-20 21:38:44 UTC
Texty wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Those new destroyers and the tiericide rebalance might make them excellent platforms for completing level 2 missions I'm thinking.

Keep in mind though the axiom of "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Omens are 10M per hull now, just a year ago they were 5 to 6M and the SoE arc doesn't pay out 10M. I think. I dunno, maybe it does.


Wow, I didn't know cruisers cost that much nowadays. SoE epic arcs pay out something between 20M and 25M total I think. If you loot you'll earn more, but if cruisers are 10M per hull then it might quite not be enough to fly a cruiser if you consider the "don't fly..." rule. Well, beginners tend to ignore that rule anyway so it might teach them a nice lesson :)

Vincent Athena wrote:
Having people switch from missions to mining controls the growth of ISK, and helps control further inflation.


I get your point but it's hard for me to believe that new players will stay in this game if they start this Internet space ship game and find out that their operation for the time being is going to be just staring at their ships projecting lazers on rocks...

Im thinking it will be a subtle shift occurring throughout the game. Inflation happens, 5% of player time shifts form mission to mining, averaged over the entire game. If more inflation happens the shift will be bigger. I doubt we will ever get to the point where no one does PvE because mining is better. If that were to happen, then the total ISK supply in the game would be shrinking.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2012-12-20 23:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
between you and me, mining sucks by a long shot.

I'll go mission and salvage/loot for an hour then melt everything down
player B will mine for the same hour.

which one of us ends up with better minerals

I'm actually... hesitant to introduce miners into missioning, because someone needs stay interested in mining (and better them than me).

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-12-21 00:02:58 UTC
Kids today are spoiled! When I was young, there WERE no missions, and there were hardly any ships for sale on the market either. My corp had to mine and rat and save up so we could buy a vexor BPO and then build them ourselves.

Think about THAT!
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2012-12-21 00:07:41 UTC
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#28 - 2012-12-21 02:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Texty wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Those new destroyers and the tiericide rebalance might make them excellent platforms for completing level 2 missions I'm thinking.

Keep in mind though the axiom of "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Omens are 10M per hull now, just a year ago they were 5 to 6M and the SoE arc doesn't pay out 10M. I think. I dunno, maybe it does.


Wow, I didn't know cruisers cost that much nowadays. SoE epic arcs pay out something between 20M and 25M total I think. If you loot you'll earn more, but if cruisers are 10M per hull then it might quite not be enough to fly a cruiser if you consider the "don't fly..." rule. Well, beginners tend to ignore that rule anyway so it might teach them a nice lesson :)

2x this.

Did the first 27 SoE missions with my 26 day old toon today in a Dragoon. Killed everything, looted and salvaged everything. Mission rewards and bounties were about 14m irrc. Add to that about 6m in loot and salvage. Thats a decent T1 cruiser for the tougher level 2 missions. For easier ones, the revamped dessies are absolutely sufficient now.

Remove standings and insurance.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#29 - 2012-12-21 02:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Xuahn wrote:
I agree there is methods for them to make money out there. We are talking about brand new players, most of whom may not even know who or what the SoE is.

Its tough for complete newbies, that is unless the tutorial has been updated significantly, I don't think I have seen the tutorial since 2006.

Still I remember thinking how impossible it would be to get the 4mil needed for a cruiser, not to mention the skill book, back when I started.

Plus there is that new player channel that they can ask questions in, that's still around right?

Nowadays tutorial sticks labels to almost every interface element you have to click. They even do not disappear until you actually click them. There are still some confusing things, but it has become much easier than 2 years ago.

A question that is asked regularly in the rookie channel: "I have finished the tutorials. What am I supposed to do now?"

Another question I got asked today when trying to help a rookie: "What is EVE about?"

Been fleeting up for 2,5h with a rookie some days ago, to get him from Duripant to Couster. He was playing the game on a notebook using his touchpad.

The easier you make it...

Also more and more experienced players trying to help in the rookie channel are complaining about newbies simply not reading even the most basic stuff.

Edit: Also, there's quite a few experienced players helping out newbies with modules, expensive skillbooks (including salvaging now), hulls and isk up to 30m and more. It's not impossible for a newbie to receive a retriever+ fit.

Remove standings and insurance.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2012-12-21 02:29:25 UTC
existentialist rookie chat.

"what did the person who got you to sign up with their buddy invite tell you?"

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#31 - 2012-12-21 02:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Rain6637 wrote:
existentialist rookie chat.

"what did the person who got you to sign up with their buddy invite tell you?"

Check out CCP's affiliate program and you get the idea Blink.

Remove standings and insurance.
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#32 - 2012-12-21 19:24:47 UTC
Rookies should run the tutorials and starter career agents. These agents give advice/ships/modules/skillbooks and can be completed once per noob starting area. If a rookie ignores the tutorial the only thing they will get is a rookie ship with 1 tritanium.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#33 - 2012-12-22 15:37:00 UTC
I remember hoarding isk for a quite along time when I first started, I flew a Kestrel for L1s, most of the career agents, the entire SoE arc, and a bunch of L2s before I finally bought a Caracal and by that time I had more than enough to fit and lose one. I didn't bother with the Cormorant and used it as my salvager because it needs gun skills to shine and I was initially fully missile based.

Knowledge is power, sure if you blow all your money on many different ships and make lots of big mistakes (every newbie will make mistakes) you'll be hard pressed to buy a Cruiser in the current market, however as mentioned, SoE still provides enough to buy a cruiser.
Kery Nysell
#34 - 2012-12-22 16:48:17 UTC
Well, thanks to the Power of Two offer, I made a newbie char ... followed the tutorials, didn't even finish the 5 career agents yet, and only with rewards, awarded ships, loots and selling the unwanted ships I'm at the 3 millions mark with 5 hours of game time ...

Oh, and I got a free destroyer I can't fly yet, need Frigate 3 ...

Honestly, I don't see the problem, you can make enough cash for that fabled first cruiser in a week, maybe two of casual gaming, just by following the tutorials, doing a bit of mining, and a bunch of Level 1 missions ...

Now, back in 2005 when I started with this char, I *had* to mine for twenty hours in my Ibis to afford my first Bantam, and then a week more of mining + missions (lvl 1, duh) to buy my first Caracal ... that cost half of what it's now. And I didn't have the skills to fly it, or even fit it.

The biggest problem I see is month-old newbies rushing to buy a CNR because mining in a (free) Venture makes so much easy cash, and then losing it in their first level 4 mission because their skills are not up to the task.

ISK-flow is there, you just need to move your behind to get it.

...
Dzajic
#35 - 2012-12-22 17:03:57 UTC
Just wait for tiericide to hit BCs and BSes. No BCs below 100 mil, no BSes below 250mil. Its gonna be so much "fun". Ugh
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-12-23 02:35:10 UTC
Ahn Tee Mahtur wrote:
Theres a lot of corps out there that are willing to give you a free ship/low cost ship just by being in their corporation. Trust me ;)

Okay so will I like this corp? Wait how much are they taxing? where is there main base of operation? Are they at war? If joining a corp is about getting a free ship, then you obviously have no idea what corps are about.
Gerard deGaulle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-12-23 14:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerard deGaulle
Julius Priscus wrote:
give aw noob who can fly a noctis @ lvl 2-3 and can use tractor beams and salvagers I will make him 20-30m an hour.

its not that hard to make isk ya know


You mean we should put clueless people into 80m hulls? That's great! I'll help them by carrying their stuff, after i blow them up and pod them :D
Julius Priscus
#38 - 2012-12-23 18:53:24 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Ahn Tee Mahtur wrote:
Theres a lot of corps out there that are willing to give you a free ship/low cost ship just by being in their corporation. Trust me ;)

Okay so will I like this corp? Wait how much are they taxing? where is there main base of operation? Are they at war? If joining a corp is about getting a free ship, then you obviously have no idea what corps are about.



that's all you pilots think about now days... MEMEMEMEME! as well as how much tax will i be paying??

tbh if your a selfish pilot you are not gonna get ****.
DrunkenNinja
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#39 - 2013-01-11 10:48:49 UTC
+1 The mission/ratting rewards for beginning players are FAR too low.
Having to rely on a corp for your first decent ship is a bad thing.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-01-11 13:18:42 UTC
wow, this is still going?

well ok then, here is my .02 ISK: if a new player does not bring the patience/ingenuity to get his first cruiser on his own, he is not the type of player EVE wants or needs anyway.

I should buy an Ishtar.
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