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What is wealthy is EVE?
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shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-12-20 17:45:23 UTC
corestwo wrote:

Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I think being wealthy in eve is being able to do what you want, when you want, without worrying about what you're doing. In those terms, there are plenty of wealthy people in eve.

This guy has the right answer, though. Wealth in eve is a means to an end, and if you can achieve that end, you're wealthy in the only way that matters.


it may sound very philosophic, but it really isnt...
OP didnt ask "when does your heart tell you you beeing rich?"

he simply asked for pure numbers



shar'ra phone home
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#22 - 2012-12-20 18:15:03 UTC
Then the OP is asking the wrong question.

Well, no. Not quite true.

If his purpose in Eve, if his end that the wealth is a means to, is simply accumulating enough wealth to be considered "wealthy", then his question is apt.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#23 - 2012-12-20 18:26:15 UTC
Hngh, this thread makes me feel like a p00rfag again. Too bad I suck **** at doing anything on the market.

To answer the question though, who even cares. Once you have above like 30-40bil, there is virtually no way to lose it all and become dirt poor unless you manage to lose super blinged ships constantly or decide to buy a super.

I'd love to have more than a trillion isk, but tbh I don't know what I'd do with it. I guess I would probably try to buy and fly all of the AT ships, but meh. Point is that as long as you can plex all of your accounts each month, and manage to maintain roughly the same amount of isk in total assets non-stop then you're rich enough.
Zaq Phelps
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2012-12-21 04:02:47 UTC
My two cents:

1 million isk is the equivalent of about 30 cents US (depending on the price of plex).

1 billion isk is about 30 USD.

1 trillion isk is about 30 thousand USD.

100 trillion isk is about 3,000,000 USD.

So... in terms of investing in a game.... if you have 1 trillion isk (and you could convert isk to dollars), you would be able to buy a car. How many people would trade a car (nice one at that) for eve? I would say that somewhere around the 100 billion mark or so you can start to say you're eve rich. If you have 1 trillion or more you're allowed to own a vault in order to swim in your own isk. 100 trillion and you clearly need to find a more challenging (and possibly less expensive) hobby.
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
#25 - 2012-12-21 07:56:03 UTC
In my experience, most people who publicly discuss their income level tend to be either self-decieved or outright lying. They're the same people who watch every tiny penny swing of the market, or get excited/start madly theorycrafting about anyone spending a significant amount of money in it. Neither of which are indicative of being "comfortable" within the upper ISK levels.
Companion Qube
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-12-21 08:17:00 UTC
What was that? I can't hear you over the sound of my money caressing my nipples.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-12-21 13:55:39 UTC
Zaq Phelps wrote:
My two cents:

1 million isk is the equivalent of about 30 cents US (depending on the price of plex).

1 billion isk is about 30 USD.

1 trillion isk is about 30 thousand USD.

100 trillion isk is about 3,000,000 USD.

So... in terms of investing in a game.... if you have 1 trillion isk (and you could convert isk to dollars), you would be able to buy a car. How many people would trade a car (nice one at that) for eve? I would say that somewhere around the 100 billion mark or so you can start to say you're eve rich. If you have 1 trillion or more you're allowed to own a vault in order to swim in your own isk. 100 trillion and you clearly need to find a more challenging (and possibly less expensive) hobby.



And this is why RMT is hard to enforce and will never end untill the game goes offline.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
enterprisePSI
#28 - 2012-12-21 16:52:01 UTC
From personal experience, you are wealthy , rich , independent, socially secure, when you stop caring about ISK in general.
"I want that ship, that fit, that stuff." And you just buy it. And you don't care.

The tears of the many, outweigh the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi©
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-12-21 18:12:29 UTC
enterprisePSI wrote:
From personal experience, you are wealthy , rich , independent, socially secure, when you stop caring about ISK in general.
"I want that ship, that fit, that stuff." And you just buy it. And you don't care.


we´ve been gon through this already.... this is about wealthy in your wallet, not in your heart.

shar'ra phone home
Demolishar
United Aggression
#30 - 2012-12-21 19:18:40 UTC
I have approx 300 bil. Still feel poor. Can not leeroy titans or support triple figure numbers of accounts.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#31 - 2012-12-21 21:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerath Naaris
corestwo wrote:
Then the OP is asking the wrong question.

Well, no. Not quite true.

If his purpose in Eve, if his end that the wealth is a means to, is simply accumulating enough wealth to be considered "wealthy", then his question is apt.


Actually - unless I am in error about that - I believe all our spacestuff ultimately belongs to CCP, so reducing the question of "wealth" in Eve to a single number IS the wrong question as it is completely pointless; none of us "own" anything, really.
Though I understand the desire to hold on a simple number, of course. It is easily understandable, categorizable and comparable after all. Furthermore, money - in real life - allows you a greater and better access to the genepool.
Which fits the human mind (or more likely: the current way of human (western) thinking) better than some abstract personalized concept.

Still, I think to answer the question "What is wealthy in EVE?", one is wealthy if a person can play the way he wants without having to worry about monetary concerns, meaning he can comfortably replace - multiple times - his investments. That requires not only a certain CURRENT amount of ISK but also a certain income STREAM, both highly personalized, of course.
A missionrunner or miner, for example, has different needs than a PvPer and thus different opinions of being "wealthy" apply to them.

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]
Elo Spektrum
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-12-21 21:28:50 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I think being wealthy in eve is being able to do what you want, when you want, without worrying about what you're doing. In those terms, there are plenty of wealthy people in eve.


This. I'm no where rich on EVE terms, but I can do what enjoy and that is what I care about.
Callean Drevus
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-12-22 03:53:03 UTC
Wallet at 7B, and unless I find I start to like PVP at one point in time, the chances of me spending it all are pretty much zero. That said, if you play with the big boys, this paltry amount is absolutely nothing (as can be taken from this thread).

I don't care. My day will come. Just as in real life, it's fun to think about, regardless of whether it actually happens. However, if I ever make it my goal to become rich in EVE, I'll make it my goal to become the 'richest' in EVE, not some stupid top 2% thing.

Developer/Creator of EVE Marketeer
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#34 - 2012-12-22 05:02:52 UTC
corestwo wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/2NI3S.png
I guess I'm doing okay?

How much of that is tied up in Procurer speculation? :)
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-12-22 05:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
In my experience, and in terms of total assets (character value excluded), I'd say that 1 trillion+ is REALLY rich (top 1% or better). The number of people with 30b+ is close to 5% solely based on the number of supers in the game, so I would say that number is at least 8%, probably closer to 10-15%.

I'd really like to see CCP implement more ISK sinks and reduce the money supply. I remember when having a few bil made you well off and 25b+ was pretty damn weatlhy.

As far as what corestwo said, it's pretty accurate. I know a lot of people who hit a certain mark (usually around 20-40b) and just stop caring because they have all the stuff they need.

EDIT: Derped my original numbers
Terra Volta
Hysera Innovations
#36 - 2012-12-22 17:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Volta
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:



Based on what? you really going to argue that there are a large number of players that personally are worth more than a trillion isk with no evidence to back it up?


common sense...

when every random 99%-scrublord can have 100bn and more, there must be some more dudes having trillions+

I dont want to ruin ur illusion of beeing rich, but like I said, 3 years ago there have been many dudes (thats just those I knew), having way more than a trillion, and they havent quit after reaching that mark.


Eve Online is good for Veterans who started playing back in 2003. But it's unfair to newer players who started playing in .....2010 for example (if you want to compare who has the ability to make more ISK)

There were many more opportunities to get rich fast back in 2003 / 2004, and all the way up until a few expansions ago. Like Tech 2 BPO's, NPC Commodities trading in 0.0 stations, Reactions, Insurance Scam, Dysprosium, ETC.

I bet you half of the trillionaires, and people who have 700 - 800 Billion, cannot become so rich, if they actually started playing right now for 8 years (from 2012 - 2020), instead of playing from 2004 - 2012.

Even if they become the director of a large alliance, they cannot make nearly as much ISK from moon goo now, as they did years ago.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#37 - 2012-12-22 18:12:26 UTC
Terra Volta wrote:
Eve Online is good for Veterans who started playing back in 2003. But it's unfair to players who started playing in .....2010 for example (if you want to compare who has the ability to make more ISK)

There were many more opportunities to get rich fast back in 2003 / 2004, and all the way up until a few expansions ago. Like Tech 2 BPO's, NPC Commodities trading in 0.0 stations, Reactions, Insurance Scam, ETC.

I bet you half of the trillionaires, and people who have 700 - 800 Billion, cannot become so rich, if they actually started playing right now (from 2012 - 2020), instead of playing from 2004 - 2012.

It's certainly the case that older players have had more opportunities to become rich. But while some of those opportunities have now passed and may not be seen again, many new opportunities appear with great regularity. So while you may legitimately claim that you can no longer get rich by doing what Insert Veteran Player Name Here has done, you cannot claim that there are no alternative methods available to you now.

Personally, I think that you kids have got it easy. Not like in my day.
Terra Volta
Hysera Innovations
#38 - 2012-12-22 18:17:15 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:


many new opportunities appear with great regularity.




True, but we cannot be sure what will happen in the future........we only know what has happened in the past.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#39 - 2012-12-22 18:32:43 UTC
Terra Volta wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:


many new opportunities appear with great regularity.




True, but we cannot be sure what will happen in the future........we only know what has happened in the past.

There are enough opportunties available to you right now, you don't need to see the future to find them.

Also I think that we can all assume that CCP will continue to release financially exploitable features with each major patch. For those you CAN know the future by consulting the dev blogs, forums, test servers and patch notes.

If you're unable to make use of the opportunities given to you now, what makes you think you would have made use of the opportunities of the past even if you were around then?

The game changes, that's a given, but it's certainly not getting harder.
Terra Volta
Hysera Innovations
#40 - 2012-12-22 18:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Volta
Bad Bobby wrote:
Terra Volta wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:


many new opportunities appear with great regularity.




True, but we cannot be sure what will happen in the future........we only know what has happened in the past.

There are enough opportunties available to you right now, you don't need to see the future to find them.

Also I think that we can all assume that CCP will continue to release financially exploitable features with each major patch. For those you CAN know the future by consulting the dev blogs, forums, test servers and patch notes.

If you're unable to make use of the opportunities given to you now, what makes you think you would have made use of the opportunities of the past even if you were around then?

The game changes, that's a given, but it's certainly not getting harder.


I remember after I had started playing for a few months. I saw a Nighthawk BPO for sale for 20 Billion ISK, and I really wanted to buy it, but I didn't have enough money. I considered buying some PLEX to get the money, but then decided against it....because it would cost a lot of real life $$$$. How much is it worth now? I'm not sure, but I think it's a lot more than 20 Billion ISK.

I was doing Insurance Scam when they nerfed it, I was doing Dysprosium reactions when they nerfed it. I was doing Officer / Dead Space module trading when everything was on Contracts, and there was no clear price reference - nerfed as well.

I was doing Mineral Trading and making 300 mil - 800 mil a day (800 mil was usually on the weekends or a lucky week day)......UNTIL I'm not sure what the hell CCP did (maybe massive mining bot ban), the mineral supply wasn't coming in that much anymore. And some people started imitating me by placing buy orders with the same Minimum Fill Quantity, and Order Quantity.

All these nerfs happened before I was able to do it for a long time.

I have made my share of ISK with the opportunities I have (around 240 Bil), but that's still considerably less than 700 Bil...and even More considerably less than 1 Trillion =P

Sure there might be new opportunities. However, the recent ones are just not as lucrative as....making 1 Billion ISK per 0.0 NPC Trade Run, or Buying a 20 Billion Nighthawk BPO, and have it appreciate to 80 Billion.