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Easy AFK-Cloaking Solution?

Author
Xotoxic
Guns and Babes Inc.
#1 - 2012-12-20 01:37:50 UTC
How about just adding a timer to the cloak, e.g. 1 hour?

This would basically only affect afk-cloakers, as you would usually decloak within an hour in "normal gameplay" (be it jumping through a gate, attacking someone or whatever) and even if you actively play and stay cloaked that long, you can just turn it back on.

It would leave the afk-cloaker scannable after an hour, although still giving him a chance of survival, probably affect noone else and be no big change to game mechanics (such as "decloaking-pos-modules" or whatever).
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#2 - 2012-12-20 02:19:47 UTC
Wow, another brilliant anti-cloaking thread. You know if you search you will literally find dozens of these, most of which say the exact same thing.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-12-20 09:22:57 UTC
Why are you trying to make a solution to something that is not a problem?

AFK cloaking is an ad hoc solution to the problem of local.

Remove local, problem solved
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#4 - 2012-12-20 10:14:35 UTC
A cloaker could very well spend more than an hour hunting and tracking targets in a wormhole.

Your 'fix' just broke wormhomes.


Remove Local.. its the only way to be sure!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#5 - 2012-12-20 10:32:58 UTC
Deactivate cloak if no input is detected from the pilot for 15 minutes.

You can still AFK cloak, but at least you have to come back to the PC every 15 minutes to spin the camera around a bit. You can't just leave it for 3 hours.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#6 - 2012-12-20 12:34:03 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
Deactivate cloak if no input is detected from the pilot for 15 minutes.

You can still AFK cloak, but at least you have to come back to the PC every 15 minutes to spin the camera around a bit. You can't just leave it for 3 hours.


Kick ships from station/POS if no input is detected from the pilot for 15 minutes.

You can still AFK sit is station, but at least you have to come back to the PC every 15 minutes to spin the camera around a bit. You can't just leave it for 3 hours.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#7 - 2012-12-20 14:55:00 UTC
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#8 - 2012-12-20 15:05:35 UTC
Manual cycle timer is silly, that would mean you have to re-activate it at exactly the right time even if you're not AFK, and even then there'd be a small instant when you're visible. AFK timer is better.

Kicking you out of a station is silly too, but a 15 minute station inactivity logoff timer, sure. But then I guess that would knock down CCP's online user count, so it's not likely to happen...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#9 - 2012-12-20 15:15:17 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
Manual cycle timer is silly, that would mean you have to re-activate it at exactly the right time even if you're not AFK, and even then there'd be a small instant when you're visible. AFK timer is better.

Don't sell the idea short!
If everyone is paying attention, more action will happen!

Aptenodytes wrote:
Kicking you out of a station is silly too, but a 15 minute station inactivity logoff timer, sure. But then I guess that would knock down CCP's online user count, so it's not likely to happen...

What good is local doing us if docked up people can be listed? They ain't even in space to BE found, that's worse than cloaking.

And picture how gate camps will be less needed, if we can orient and warp to each other in space more reliably!

PvP FTW!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2012-12-20 15:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Xotoxic wrote:
How about just adding a timer to the cloak, e.g. 1 hour?

This would basically only affect afk-cloakers, as you would usually decloak within an hour in "normal gameplay" (be it jumping through a gate, attacking someone or whatever) and even if you actively play and stay cloaked that long, you can just turn it back on.

It would leave the afk-cloaker scannable after an hour, although still giving him a chance of survival, probably affect noone else and be no big change to game mechanics (such as "decloaking-pos-modules" or whatever).
Why do you think cloaks need this nerf?

Aptenodytes wrote:
Kicking you out of a station is silly too, but a 15 minute station inactivity logoff timer, sure. But then I guess that would knock down CCP's online user count, so it's not likely to happen...
Far too easy to circumvent, without breaking the EULA. This would mean a boost to AFKing.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

DSpite Culhach
#11 - 2012-12-20 15:36:30 UTC
I cant think of a single "solution" that could not be worked around by running a script to automate the process - which would be illegal of course - but good luck catching the person anyway.

If I had to suggest ONE way and this would work for both mining and cloaks I guess, would be an automatic overheat on the module when its been running too long non stop, and if it reaches 100% red, something happens.

* Manually keeping modules cool by being at the game, say by clicking off and on again at a certain part of the cycle, allows it to cool quickly. This could be a matter of just micromanaging "x" seconds every "x" hours, with say an audio/visual warning.

* Letting the mining module run to red, which might take "x" hours, might cause reduced yeald, or a drop in the current ore cycle while it cools, or go offline, or whatever.

* In the case of cloak, hitting 100% might make it go offline for "x" time causing the ship to be visible and scannable for a while, or just stay offline until the player enters PI to 150 decimal places. This option making every one in the EVE universe bounty my ass for years to come for having suggested it.

PS: don't mine or go cloaking in systems, I am just trying to be constructive to the discussion, as I have seen this topic come up a fair bit. I do think though that if the system had both a stick AND a carrot mechanic, it might be more interesting.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2012-12-20 15:40:24 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
I cant think of a single "solution" that could not be worked around by running a script to automate the process - which would be illegal of course - but good luck catching the person anyway.

If I had to suggest ONE way and this would work for both mining and cloaks I guess, would be an automatic overheat on the module when its been running too long non stop, and if it reaches 100% red, something happens.

* Manually keeping modules cool by being at the game, say by clicking off and on again at a certain part of the cycle, allows it to cool quickly. This could be a matter of just micromanaging "x" seconds every "x" hours, with say an audio/visual warning.

* Letting the mining module run to red, which might take "x" hours, might cause reduced yeald, or a drop in the current ore cycle while it cools, or go offline, or whatever.

* In the case of cloak, hitting 100% might make it go offline for "x" time causing the ship to be visible and scannable for a while, or just stay offline until the player enters PI to 150 decimal places. This option making every one in the EVE universe bounty my ass for years to come for having suggested it.

PS: don't mine or go cloaking in systems, I am just trying to be constructive to the discussion, as I have seen this topic come up a fair bit. I do think though that if the system had both a stick AND a carrot mechanic, it might be more interesting.
So what about the cause of AFKing?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#13 - 2012-12-20 15:51:30 UTC
Xotoxic wrote:
How about just adding a timer to the cloak, e.g. 1 hour?

This would basically only affect afk-cloakers, as you would usually decloak within an hour in "normal gameplay" (be it jumping through a gate, attacking someone or whatever) and even if you actively play and stay cloaked that long, you can just turn it back on.

It would leave the afk-cloaker scannable after an hour, although still giving him a chance of survival, probably affect noone else and be no big change to game mechanics (such as "decloaking-pos-modules" or whatever).

This is just a start, but letting people clutter up the list in local who CANNOT BE FOUND is making this source of intel questionable at best.

Sure, it's an outpost. The guy in it should not be there, but he is. You can dock, and see him in the list.

It's ridiculous to suggest we need to camp the outpost in case he decides to undock. Local is not telling us anything useful beyond being in system, and he is using it against the legitimate residents.

Put him on a timer to be undocked automatically, if he makes no actions. This is a PvP game, and his behavior is violating the quality of intel we use.

How are we supposed to play with this threat hanging above our heads?
DSpite Culhach
#14 - 2012-12-20 16:09:23 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So what about the cause of AFKing?


Are you asking me "What about fixing the reason as to why people go AFK" ?

As far as mining, it would have to turned more into a PvE of players vs Asteroids. If being active and in fleets while mining gave better rewards it would make more sense to be active. An example might be switching lasers to match ore types, with correct "ammo" = higher yeald. Also, if fields were immense, ie planetary rings, with lots of dead/empty roids, then the more valuable ores would need to be scanned down, but doing so would guarantee more isk/hour then just shooting whatever is in front of you, which in many cases would only get a couple of cycles worth, or even no ore at all.

As far as the AFK cloaking, I know it's done to annoy people mostly, and frankly, there should be a way to scan down a cloaked ship as long as said ship is not jumping around every so often, but seriously, how the hell can you make that fair? I don't think you can, unless you allowed a fleet of scanning ships working togheter to get better probe resolution, or other weird mechanic.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

DSpite Culhach
#15 - 2012-12-20 16:23:54 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

This is just a start, but letting people clutter up the list in local who CANNOT BE FOUND is making this source of intel questionable at best.

Sure, it's an outpost. The guy in it should not be there, but he is. You can dock, and see him in the list.

It's ridiculous to suggest we need to camp the outpost in case he decides to undock. Local is not telling us anything useful beyond being in system, and he is using it against the legitimate residents.

Put him on a timer to be undocked automatically, if he makes no actions. This is a PvP game, and his behavior is violating the quality of intel we use.

How are we supposed to play with this threat hanging above our heads?


Hold on, why do we even have "local" for? Seems to me it was put in at the start for the chat system mechanics and just left there, only removed from wormholes because someone went "Umm, errr, we better do something about it cause people will complain". If you say "well, the gates track people", then when Jump Freigters move they should not show up in local either and have to make some weird rationalization to allow it.

Personally, "local" presence mechanics never made sense to me.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#16 - 2012-12-20 16:57:14 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

This is just a start, but letting people clutter up the list in local who CANNOT BE FOUND is making this source of intel questionable at best.

Sure, it's an outpost. The guy in it should not be there, but he is. You can dock, and see him in the list.

It's ridiculous to suggest we need to camp the outpost in case he decides to undock. Local is not telling us anything useful beyond being in system, and he is using it against the legitimate residents.

Put him on a timer to be undocked automatically, if he makes no actions. This is a PvP game, and his behavior is violating the quality of intel we use.

How are we supposed to play with this threat hanging above our heads?


Hold on, why do we even have "local" for? Seems to me it was put in at the start for the chat system mechanics and just left there, only removed from wormholes because someone went "Umm, errr, we better do something about it cause people will complain". If you say "well, the gates track people", then when Jump Freigters move they should not show up in local either and have to make some weird rationalization to allow it.

Personally, "local" presence mechanics never made sense to me.

Regardless of whatever reason was first used, the obvious has happened.

Local is the foundation of local system intel awareness.

Right or wrong, unless this changes, people rely on and use local to know who is present, and thus if anyone needs to be reacted to.

If they want to remove local that is one direction, which we know a lot of people will be upset with. They have come to rely on it, and changing the game on them would be confusing to those who dislike change.

If they plan on keeping it, then make it the official intel source, and validate it by forcing listed pilots to be PvP targeted.

No more station games, no more hiding in stations. Be in the system, or be in the kill mail.
Besina Echerie
Vermona Collective
#17 - 2012-12-20 19:25:19 UTC
I find it ridiculous that nullsec residents are being more risk-averse than highsec carebear miners.
Highsec miners are surrounded all the time by hundreds of potential suicide gankers. They don't have any advantage from Local to spot these, all they can do is watch their overview and hope.

Other than the first time they realize that this is an actual danger, they all cope with that constant danger somehow.

But nullsec pilots can't? LAAAME.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#18 - 2012-12-20 19:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So what about the cause of AFKing?


Are you asking me "What about fixing the reason as to why people go AFK" ?

.....Mining snip.....

As far as the AFK cloaking, I know it's done to annoy people mostly, and frankly, there should be a way to scan down a cloaked ship as long as said ship is not jumping around every so often, but seriously, how the hell can you make that fair? I don't think you can, unless you allowed a fleet of scanning ships working togheter to get better probe resolution, or other weird mechanic.
Yes I was. Why not mention the reason why people use AFKing, and suggest a fix to that?
And I'm talking about AFKing, in regards to psychological warfare. As that's what this thread is about.

Let me put it this way. Whilst they are AFKing, what game mechanic are they using to interact with you? I'm guessing you know that already, after talking with Nikk.

The thing is you can AFK without a cloak and cause the same psychological effect. This alone, should tell you cloaks are not the problem people are having.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.