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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Tweak Aggro Mechanics and Rat AI
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Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#1 - 2012-12-19 16:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gibbo5771
I have 2 main problems with the current aggression mechanics and rat AI.

A lot of useful things have been added, the much needed time indicators is one of them, as well as the rat AI not being completely stupid.

However both of these pose seriously issues for casual pvp'ers, a group of players that CCP is slowly weeding out of the game.

How exactly does this effect small/solo pvpers?

The aggression now carries from system to system, this means a casual player is pretty much stuck in the game until the 15 minute aggression timer is up, which makes the game harder to put down since no one really wants to lose a ship just because they had to log off for 5 minutes to say, walk the dog or use the bathroom. This is actually posing a huge problem for people like me that fly in deep hostile space where we have no access to stations or POS.

How does the rat AI come into this?

If you are flying a fairly slow ship and travelling through gates, the new sleeper like AI has the rats targetting you pretty fast and causing an unwanted aggression timer for a whole 5 minutes. Sometimes when I land on a gate, the rats lock me up instantly before the game responds to my jump command.

How can CCP make it easier for casual pvpers to "put the game down"?

I honestly think they should revert the aggression mechanics back so they do not carry from system to system, as for the NPC aggression timer it should only apply if we be aggressive to the NPC and not the other way around, this means when we land on a gate and do not jump immediately we are commited to pay attention for the next 5 minutes, meaning we can not log off in an active area to do something in real life. Which is pretty bull, I never intended to aggro those NPC's, I am not actively pve'in there fore should not be forced to take an aggression timer.
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#2 - 2012-12-19 16:50:34 UTC
You know this is features and ideas section right? What is your suggested new feature or idea?
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-12-19 16:53:06 UTC
Do you log out every time you see a neutral in local?
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#4 - 2012-12-19 19:08:01 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
You know this is features and ideas section right? What is your suggested new feature or idea?


Yeah wtf, the draft never loaded my god damn proposal I typed out. Just got back from shopping lol, will update OP.
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#5 - 2012-12-19 19:12:07 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Do you log out every time you see a neutral in local?


Nah mate, go and troll some other section, I am an active solo and small gang pvp'er and these new mechanics do in fact cause problems.

Only people who do what I and my corp does will understand, when we are deep in nullsec with no way of being safe besides a cloak, which 90% of the ships that solo in null do not fit.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-12-19 20:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Gibbo5771 wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Do you log out every time you see a neutral in local?


Nah mate, go and troll some other section, I am an active solo and small gang pvp'er and these new mechanics do in fact cause problems.

Only people who do what I and my corp does will understand, when we are deep in nullsec with no way of being safe besides a cloak, which 90% of the ships that solo in null do not fit.



A 5 minute aggression timer to wait to walk the dog or what ever is a non issue.
A 15 minute aggression timer after pvp is part of the game, and has always been there.

The change to carry from system is simply closing a loop hole that should have never been there in the first place.
Your argument only shows that is was being abused.

The way it was before made it nearly impossible to catch a solo ratter while roaming.
Now there is a fair chance too if the solo ratter doen't know what they are doing.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#7 - 2012-12-19 20:11:55 UTC
5 minutes is only a big deal if you are being probed down already, in which case, RL can happen for both the hunter and the prey. It would only be fair for you to be immune to "RL happening" if the ones hunting would also be immune to it by default.
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#8 - 2012-12-19 21:17:37 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Gibbo5771 wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Do you log out every time you see a neutral in local?


Nah mate, go and troll some other section, I am an active solo and small gang pvp'er and these new mechanics do in fact cause problems.

Only people who do what I and my corp does will understand, when we are deep in nullsec with no way of being safe besides a cloak, which 90% of the ships that solo in null do not fit.



A 5 minute aggression timer to wait to walk the dog or what ever is a non issue.
A 15 minute aggression timer after pvp is part of the game, and has always been there.

The change to carry from system is simply closing a loop hole that should have never been there in the first place.
Your argument only shows that is was being abused.

The way it was before made it nearly impossible to catch a solo ratter while roaming.
Now there is a fair chance too if the solo ratter doesn't know what they are doing.


Do not know where about you are trying to catch these solo ratters but I can assure you they are long gone before you land and people too stupid to warp off, log off a die any way due to the fact you have already aggro'd.

The added NPC aggression timer the way it is is just a frustration. We should not be forced to have a reset 5 minute aggression every time we jump through a gate with rats.

The 15 minute aggression timer has always been there, I am well aware of that but a way to avoid having to sit around for 15 minutes was to simply jump out of the system, log in a safe. With the current mechanics we are pretty much forced to sit and watch the screen until the timer is up, 15 minutes is not significant you say? Kids, family, WIFE > eve, I and others really should not be punished for wanting to log off.

I would also not say jumping system to drop the timer is a loophole, I risked my ship to jump that gate, a camp from the engagement might have been thrown up, I might have to crash the gate instantly resetting the timer back to 15 minutes.

It really is not fair, I am not the kind of person that goes "wah wah, not the way i like it, i demand change" but I really do think the forced NPC timer for every rat aggro and pvp aggro being carrier system to system, is an inconvenience to any player that only puts say, an hour or even 30 minutes into the game before they go to work, college, drop kids at school etc etc.
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#9 - 2012-12-19 21:23:52 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
5 minutes is only a big deal if you are being probed down already, in which case, RL can happen for both the hunter and the prey. It would only be fair for you to be immune to "RL happening" if the ones hunting would also be immune to it by default.


Granted those are true, however in the event that I log off in an empty system then 1 minute later a gang comes through and realises, out of luck, why should I pay the price for this? Why do I get an NPC timer when I never engaged the NPC.

Some might say then why does the non aggressive individual being killed by the aggressive individual get an aggression timer? This is to prevent the massive issue of people insta-logging in supercaps, carriers and other pve related ships in clearly dangerous space, using a massive loophole in the aggression system to make up for their fault.

Currently as it stands there is ZERO reason for ANYONE to get aggression from rats if they did not retaliate. It would not change a thing, not even in WH space, the type of space that I reside in, because if you do not shoot back you make no money.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#10 - 2012-12-20 08:13:46 UTC
Gibbo5771 wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
5 minutes is only a big deal if you are being probed down already, in which case, RL can happen for both the hunter and the prey. It would only be fair for you to be immune to "RL happening" if the ones hunting would also be immune to it by default.


Granted those are true, however in the event that I log off in an empty system then 1 minute later a gang comes through and realises, out of luck, why should I pay the price for this? Why do I get an NPC timer when I never engaged the NPC.

Some might say then why does the non aggressive individual being killed by the aggressive individual get an aggression timer? This is to prevent the massive issue of people insta-logging in supercaps, carriers and other pve related ships in clearly dangerous space, using a massive loophole in the aggression system to make up for their fault.

Currently as it stands there is ZERO reason for ANYONE to get aggression from rats if they did not retaliate. It would not change a thing, not even in WH space, the type of space that I reside in, because if you do not shoot back you make no money.


While I see your point, also consider the fact they simplified the system. I'm sorry to say I still think this is acceptable collateral damage. Luck is part of the game, but then again mechanics are still in your favor if the gang is not hunting you. Chances are they will think you are logged off at a POS.

Let's assume you log off, 30 secs later someone jumps through (with combat probes ready) at a different stargate within scan range. They don't know you were here 30 secs ago, might not even scan 360. Chances are if they are me, they will anyways. Okay, hurricane on scan but w/e, system is empty.

Now what are the chances you are actually logged off somewhere where there are no POSes within range? Okay, so now you are at one of those gates. They realize that and/or scan with overview setting "off". Still, they do not know you had an aggression timer, neither do they know for how long you have logged off. They wait another 30 secs, ship still on scan (you have 4 mins left).

So probing begins and they have 4 minutes to find you.

Seems to me like this is a very rare scenario justifying a change affecting everyone.
Kuro Bon
Test Corp 123
#11 - 2012-12-20 17:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuro Bon
There isn't a single justified counter argument here.

The OP is proposing the NPC agro timer start when the player shoots an NPC, instead of when an NPC shoots a player.

What is the downside? If you PVP them, they get the PVP timer anyhow..

Missioners could logout with aggro before shooting anything?

Freighters being harassed by gate NPCs can't logout?

A player scramed by sleepers could logout?

Do we really care about these things?

If so, make gate rats not trigger NPC aggro until you attack them.

Protip: 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour.