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Just reactivated - Scared to try Level 4's

Author
Mund Richard
#21 - 2012-12-18 14:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Warthogger Mikakka wrote:
1200 dps tank is nothing my partner had 1600 stable tank in a napoc. i warped into second pocket in worlds collide an took normal aggro 4 bs 2 frigs the moment she warped in she got full pocket aggro an died with in 20 seconds. no way to escape. lucky i got away as the whole pocket reset when she poped.

Shocked
Which WC was this, against what rat type?
Were her hardeners on?
Wasn't she getting neuted?
(Sorry for the question, but I did see a tournament match have 100B go up poof with the ganglink resists not turned on... Roll)

I've just made a random fit in EFT, tanks only 448 against angels (weaker resists) with all T2 mods, but has a buffer of 144k.
In 20 seconds that would be like... over 7000 dps?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Warthogger Mikakka
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-18 14:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Warthogger Mikakka
she had complex em an themal armor hardners an complex armor rep ah 150k effective hp vs shancha / 1600 tank all was active an she popped around 20 seconds. we both have around 600 dps and we could not kill the 2 frig that scramed her intime befor she popped. yeh she was to close to hit them but we had full agro so all drones were released to help. typical the drones dint steal scramble agro :(

theres also something wrong with warps. i aligned was going fullspeed ( so perfectly alligned right) i click warp and had no scram on me an took like a minute to activate warp.
Mund Richard
#23 - 2012-12-18 15:10:03 UTC
Warthogger Mikakka wrote:
she had complex em an themal armor hardners an complex armor rep ah 150k effective hp vs shancha / 1600 tank all was active an she popped around 20 seconds.
I haven't done that setup of WC yet, but that sounds messed up.
Did you try looking at the logs?

Anyone else ever had the impression that sanshas do some 8k dps?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Warthogger Mikakka
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-12-18 16:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Warthogger Mikakka
i looged at the logs and it was 37 seconds start to pop not to worry anyway ships not the problem its just anoying that 2 people cant do WC lol
Mund Richard
#25 - 2012-12-18 16:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Warthogger Mikakka wrote:
i looged at the logs and it was 37 seconds start to pop not to worry anyway ships not the problem its just anoying that 2 people cant do WC lol

Oh, no I'm not worried about your ship Roll

I'm worried about the implications there, and how it could happen to others.
Might be a bug we don't know about yet, or some other.
Not only should two people be able to do it, but in a navy battleship, even one, with the proper fit and skills.

I do assume it was in the Sasha side and not the Angel room.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Warthogger Mikakka
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-12-18 17:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Warthogger Mikakka
yeh angel side cleared no problem she warped back changed hardners for sancha side soon as she enterd game over.

for the time been id use extreme caution about this mission ive read across the forums that marauders and tengus have had the same thing happen.

this mission gave us no problems in previous months but lastnight it was different
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-12-18 17:54:59 UTC
Warthogger Mikakka wrote:
i looged at the logs and it was 37 seconds start to pop not to worry anyway ships not the problem its just anoying that 2 people cant do WC lol

I got that mission 2 days ago and did it just fine in a rattlesnake. Got full aggro in the research center too.
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-12-18 18:26:55 UTC
With the updated info of the ship lasting 37 seconds, it having a tank of 1600, and having EHP of ~150,000 - that means there was incoming DPS of ~5650.

That's an awful lot of incoming damage.

The room has, in total, 6 frigates, 5 destroyers, 5 cruisers, and 10 battleships plus a possibility of a faction spawn.

Total estimated DPS (from eveinfo.com stats):

132 dps per battleship - that's using the highest DPS variant of the battleships. The reality would be lower.
55 dps per cruiser
35 dps per destroyer
25 dps per frigate


10 battleships = 1320 dps
5 cruisers = 275 dps
5 destroyers = 175 dps
6 frigates = 150 dps

1920 incoming DPS potential.

So.. hmm... something is definitely weird.


Da Grim Reaper
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-12-18 18:43:31 UTC
My main solo lvl 4s in a Maelstrom

Tech 2 tank of about ~440dps can be adjusted to mission specific hardners for higher tank
Tech 2 AB for range control
Tech 1 1400 MM Scout Arty (I only have 360k skill points in guns right now)
Tech 1 Drones (500k skill points)

I use Fusion and Phased Plasma for BC and BS shots
I used Depleted Uranium and Titanium for Cruiser and Frigates (Better tracking with this ammo)

Don't launch drones until everything is on you and then go for frigates first just to make sure you cannot be tackled or webbed.

Pick off the frigates with arty if they are outside of drone range otherwise go for cruisers and BS so as to lower DPS actually hitting you as fast as possible. Generally speaking killing the BS first can be bad since they trigger additional spawns.

Set orbit to max range and keep at range to optimal for Fusion rounds. (example 85k orbit and 26k keep at range)


Now I am not saying this may be the fastest way or the best, but it works. My attack skills suck overall, though my defense is pretty good.

If I can solo with these skills, then you certianly can if you have 19m in combat skills.
Freundliches Feuer
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-12-18 20:29:29 UTC
Da Grim Reaper wrote:
My main solo lvl 4s in a Maelstrom

Tech 2 tank of about ~440dps can be adjusted to mission specific hardners for higher tank
Tech 2 AB for range control
Tech 1 1400 MM Scout Arty (I only have 360k skill points in guns right now)
Tech 1 Drones (500k skill points)

I use Fusion and Phased Plasma for BC and BS shots
I used Depleted Uranium and Titanium for Cruiser and Frigates (Better tracking with this ammo)

Don't launch drones until everything is on you and then go for frigates first just to make sure you cannot be tackled or webbed.

Pick off the frigates with arty if they are outside of drone range otherwise go for cruisers and BS so as to lower DPS actually hitting you as fast as possible. Generally speaking killing the BS first can be bad since they trigger additional spawns.

Set orbit to max range and keep at range to optimal for Fusion rounds. (example 85k orbit and 26k keep at range)


Now I am not saying this may be the fastest way or the best, but it works. My attack skills suck overall, though my defense is pretty good.

If I can solo with these skills, then you certianly can if you have 19m in combat skills.


^ This. All of you with tank of 1600 and failing are just teribad at eve and should quit. Contract me some stuff while you are at it though... ;)
Mund Richard
#31 - 2012-12-18 20:41:46 UTC
Fractal Muse wrote:
So.. hmm... something is definitely weird.
Pretty much.
Figure out what went wrong.
Something definitely did.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

SuburbanFatCat IV
Vision Inc
Hole Control
#32 - 2012-12-19 07:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: SuburbanFatCat IV
Not sure why theres so much focus on tank here. If you fit for gank instead you dont have to worry about tank much at all. At least it works that way with caldari (golem here). Even with full aggro in the missions that have been causing problems with all the changes as of late I can take ships out fast enough to keep myself in one piece.

I will admit that overheating shield booster/resists mods has helped when Ive forgotten what im doing and space out for a few seconds.

I wont post a link, but if you search youtube with my name you'll find a few recent runs with what im talking about.

As for the drones, it is easy to keep them alive. Releasing drones causes npc's to switch to them, so if you then recall them to the bay and relaunch again you should be ok as long as no new spawns occur. But as before when i forget what im doing, well lets say ive lost quite a few.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-12-19 09:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
SuburbanFatCat IV wrote:
As for the drones, it is easy to keep them alive. Releasing drones causes npc's to switch to them, so if you then recall them to the bay and relaunch again you should be ok as long as no new spawns occur. But as before when i forget what im doing, well lets say ive lost quite a few.

If this trick still works, I can't understand where all the drone aggro QQ comes from. Soo... Does it?

Oh, to supplement the point, it was noticed by some, that once rat starts web/scram you, it won't switch target to your drones. Maybe it's wrong though as it's entirely possible that people rely on red/yellow box to determine rat target, but can be confused by rats aiming tackle at the ship, but guns at drones. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

I must admit that I haven't tested missions by myself yet. Only logged this month to set training queue several times, and accompanied incursion fleet once (incursions are old story atm).
SuburbanFatCat IV
Vision Inc
Hole Control
#34 - 2012-12-19 09:44:49 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
SuburbanFatCat IV wrote:
As for the drones, it is easy to keep them alive. Releasing drones causes npc's to switch to them, so if you then recall them to the bay and relaunch again you should be ok as long as no new spawns occur. But as before when i forget what im doing, well lets say ive lost quite a few.

If this trick still works, I can't understand where all the drone aggro QQ comes from. Soo... Does it?

Oh, to supplement the point, it was noticed by some, that once rat starts web/scram you, it won't switch target to your drones. Maybe it's wrong though as it's entirely possible that people rely on red/yellow box to determine rat target, but can be confused by rats aiming tackle at the ship, but guns at drones. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

I must admit that I haven't tested missions by myself yet. Only logged this month to set training queue several times, and accompanied incursion fleet once (incursions are old story atm).



I have had rats that have web/scrammed me to still switch targets to my drones. As far as the boxing goes ive had all npc's red boxing me yet still drones takes damage. Maybe some kind of UI bug?

Even after assuring all targets have once targeted drones before and relaunching them there have been a few times they still switched targets to the drones, but it isnt very often at least from what ive seen after the changes so far.
Mund Richard
#35 - 2012-12-19 09:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
SuburbanFatCat IV wrote:
As for the drones, it is easy to keep them alive. Releasing drones causes npc's to switch to them, so if you then recall them to the bay and relaunch again you should be ok as long as no new spawns occur. But as before when i forget what im doing, well lets say ive lost quite a few.

If this trick still works, I can't understand where all the drone aggro QQ comes from. Soo... Does it?

Oh, to supplement the point, it was noticed by some, that once rat starts web/scram you, it won't switch target to your drones. Maybe it's wrong though as it's entirely possible that people rely on red/yellow box to determine rat target, but can be confused by rats aiming tackle at the ship, but guns at drones. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

1) The recall-release exploit is considered a "feature" that will get patched out as soon as possible.
It does work, we don't know for how long.
I personally never used it though, as getting used to the new AI and saying it's fine is not about using a basically cheat that will get fixed, and if I'm giving feedback about the new AI, I'm doing it for it's intended form, and not it's exploited. As it will be the only one in a bit.
2) Overheadet Golem (shield boost amount, T2 ship) ain't exactly the freshly returned or new player's perspective.
You are obviously right that they can be done so, but any mistake punishes you a great deal, and such many rather fit for safety.
3) tackler not swapping for drones:
I believe I had tacklers pealed off from me at times, but not always. I do try to keep agro from my drones.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2012-12-19 10:55:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I made videos of running WC serpentis yesterday... I've decided to make a thorough video look into the more debated level 4's, but this was my first video (videos)

also, Youtube limited the length of the videos to about 3 mins because the files were 6GB and 5GB unprocessed... I've since adjusted the game sounds and learned how to process videos before uploading them to Youtube.

I'll make more videos next time I get worlds collide, but I didn't get it at all today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4lkE82F4OM <-- room 2 in a nightmare, golem, and basilisk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5VRbo_PobU <-- final room; I was also eating. bad idea. I'm not a radio/voice personality...

I'll try to talk more to explain what's going on. :-/
Nessa Aldeen
First Among Equals
#37 - 2012-12-19 11:44:14 UTC
First off, soloing in Level 4s is still 100% doable. The difficult ones have been bumped a notch while the vanilla ones sub 6k type LPs are pretty much the same albeit you must consider the Ewar. For the difficult missions esp Worlds Collide, you do need to think about a very good tank, omni resists must also be high say about 88. Go grabs some deadspace mods or faction mods to meet the challenge. Ships that can solo tank I have tried so far:

All T3, Bhaal, Kronos, Golem, Paladin Pulse, Rattlesnake (easily the best tank and has an equally good dps now), Rokh Blaster, Sacrilege (dual rep, with 1600 plate), Nightmare (pulse and three faction NOS) with faction/deadspace (so you can imagine how you need to spend here).

Generally these ships with standard T2 that can't hold tank: Raven, Apoc, Abaddon, Geddon, Navy Geddon, Navy Apoc, Machariel (armor and shield config just can't even with faction), Vindicator(same like the mach).

The drone whinage is a case of 'you protest too much' I have only lost 3 drones.. all of them light drones. I fear that the whine comes from people who really are afk-missioning or have little skills in drones or BOTH. Sentries/med and heavies are the way to go.

Drop me a line if you need any advice since I am now officially 100% carebear mode.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2012-12-19 12:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
wait, what level 4's are 6k+ LP? that would be nice for shopping in the LP store

I am a supporter of gangs with logi. I have this machariel fit that has -=no=- reps, it runs lvl 4's... :-D

http://i.imgur.com/LVez5.jpg needs cap and shields, but OK i know it's not the best. idea.

http://i.imgur.com/a5HRz.jpg
Ronan Connor
#39 - 2012-12-19 14:14:02 UTC
Best to find someone for a couple of joint missions to get a feeling.

You can handle sentries still fine (allthough with unnerfing mission prolonging micromanagement). What you should take care of is of course frigs first. It seems that they have some kind of insta lock even on you small drones. So micromanagement isnt a good solution.
If frigs are around 5-7 km you can dare shooting them with you small drones, but be prepared to bring another set of w5 with you. It could happen, but is not a must.

For my taste we have an "egg and chicken" problem. CCP made changes to the AI, without changing the mission load and an overhaul of the drone system.
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-12-19 14:19:50 UTC
I saw a range domi fit with a micro jump drive rip WC to shreds. May be an option for some who can't handle the initial incoming from the room.

Personally, I ignore frigates now until they are on top of me. Focus my efforts on cruisers, BCs, and BSes in that order, unless there's heavy damp or jamming going on, then I reprioritize. If the frigates web/scram, I just stay calm and continue my plan. I only divert if I know I can't tank what's coming in.

Before the full-room fix though, having to warp a 900 DPS passive tanked Rattlesnake out of a couple of rooms was a little bit embarrassing.
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