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Idea: ECM diminishing return
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Ferahgo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-18 07:38:12 UTC
I'm incredibly sorry if this idea has been brought up. Tried searching, couldn't find. So anyways here goes:

ECMs getting diminished returns.

Would work something as: First successful jam lasts for its full duration. If a second successful jam occurs to the target (by you or anyone) they will only be jammed for 1/2 the time. Third time would be 1/2 of that then invulnerable to jamming after that.

On top of that, the diminished returns only would go into effect if they are re-jammed within say 1 minute of the last jam. (so could jam, jam someone else, etc wait for that one minute then jam first guy again for full strength)

Mainly this would just help prevent being perma jammed. (such as silly guristas missions or that one Falcon who just seems to hate you)

Anyways. Just an idea
Trevor Inkura
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-12-18 16:19:58 UTC
I'm in favor of something like this. Hate being permanently jammed
Mund Richard
#3 - 2012-12-19 01:15:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
  • Picking the right target with TDs and flying smart, you can almost shut down any incoming damage by either going under the gun, or going deeper into his falloff while staying low in yours. (extra: buddy in T1/T2 Arbitrator hull)
  • Picking on the right opponent with enough sensor damp and long range disruptors lets you be 100% sure of him not being able to lock you at all, or get away (Lachesis with 2RSD gets a Cane down to 10km locking range, WD-ing from 48km away, and moving a LOT faster).
  • Picking on any short range brawler (up to medium blasters) with a Huginn (web range) and a disruptor will let you laugh at him not being able to catch up to you, or get away.
    • PvP 101:
    The counter to anything is to have more friends, in the right ship.Roll

    With a Jammer, you need quite a bit of luck on an unbonused hull to make it work (but to great effect then), and even on a bonused hull, there's a possibility it to fail, while ECM boats aren't the sturdiest ones.

    I hate being permajammed just like anyone else, never flew any ECM ship ever, but what you suggest sounds too much considering the other scenarios I laid out that also perma-debiliate you.
    If you hate guristas, mount ECCM, and don't use Marauders.

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
    Seranova Farreach
    Biomass Negative
    #4 - 2012-12-19 05:33:24 UTC
    Trevor Inkura wrote:
    I'm in favor of something like this. Hate being permanently jammed

    get MOAR ECCM

    [u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
    Ferahgo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #5 - 2012-12-19 07:19:23 UTC
    "picking on the right target" was how you started each scenario. However any dedicated ecm ship can jam any ship and most of the time can do it permanently. At least with the other ones you may be able to get drones to targets/still try to accomplish something. And eccm isn't a fix. It barely helps unless you can get your strength to 50+ and even then you are gimping your ship if you are unsure if you will encounter a jamming ship.

    What I'm suggesting is just preventing how long someone can be jammed (which still equals out to about 40 or so seconds) if you need someone jammed longer than this, you obviously are not good enough to kill them
    Fon Revedhort
    Monks of War
    #6 - 2012-12-19 07:28:47 UTC
    Been proposed that way or another, and actually all forms of EW should work this way - trust me, being permanently TDed or damped is no better than experiencing permajamming Big smile

    This opens up another dimension of things, by the way - it might make sense to make different ships 'adapting' to EW in a different manner, so that, say, a ceptor adjusts its sensors quicker than a carrier and so on.

    "Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
    Mund Richard
    #7 - 2012-12-19 11:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
    Ferahgo wrote:
    "picking on the right target" was how you started each scenario.

    Indeed.
    In the ECM ship's case it a lonely opponent you have multiple racial jammers against, with a tiny/no dronebay, no missiles that can be loaded with FoF, and no active ECM running.
    Ferahgo wrote:
    Any dedicated ecm ship can jam any ship and most of the time can do it permanently. At least with the other ones you may be able to get drones to targets/still try to accomplish something. And eccm isn't a fix. It barely helps unless you can get your strength to 50+ and even then you are gimping your ship if you are unsure if you will encounter a jamming ship.

    What I'm suggesting is just preventing how long someone can be jammed (which still equals out to about 40 or so seconds) if you need someone jammed longer than this, you obviously are not good enough to kill them

    Since you said Falcon...
    Solo 1v1 wonderland:
    Falcon that's not only rainbow ECM but also gank, against a Deimos has ~10% chance to miss it's ECM even if fully rigged for it.
    40% if the Deimos has an ECCM running.
    The Deimos will flatten the Falcon in one failed cycle, the Falcon will take quite a while to grind the opposition with it's low dps.
    Whom would you bet on? Roll

    more versus more:
    The dedicated ECM boat either nerfs it's ability to ECM, or will be going down fast. Roll

    As Fon Revedhort said, being perma-EWARed by anyone else is just as much not fun.
    Sure, you can send drones against a TD ship.
    A random PvP ship has one flight of drones, and then it's dead in the water, TD does never miss.
    With ECM you at least have a chance.



    In fact being ECM-d is still better than being sensor dampened by a kiting team...
    Just think about it.Roll

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
    Ferahgo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #8 - 2012-12-19 13:03:19 UTC
    I'm sorry... Did you just try to suggest a Falcon would 1v1 anything? My dear misinformed person, no falcons never ever 1v1. They are in the 2 v whatever fights. Sometimes it's the alt (seeing as neutral reps got hit hard) so no instead of your deimos v Falcon its more like deimos v combat ship + Falcon and your deimos will sit there pretty as the Falcon puts 6 multispectral. ECMs on you.

    Now I am not asking to make it so jamming loses its effectiveness. Just preventing it from being abused. And make the fights more fun for both parties. 35-45 seconds of being jammed Imo is more than enough a single person should be jammed for in a 2 minute fight (as I suggested the invulnerability would only last a minute from last jam)