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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Elite missions, with more realistic enemies.
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Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-18 11:21:01 UTC
How about adding a new series of Elite missions where you'll be facing fewer enemies, like NPC capsuleers, who will be using serious tactics against you, and use the same stuff against you that you would use in PvP. Better, smarter enemies flying the same ships as you, with the same modules. So fewer, but smarter and stronger enemies, instead of swarms of weaker ones. Make it a challenge, not a grind. Every missions would be more fun than nay normal mission due to the fact that you'd have to think. And EVE is a thinking man/woman's game.

I think it would be natural step towards PvP as well. The level 1 missions would naturally be easier, and you'd work your way up to the harder ones.

I also think these missions should built to be done by a fleet at later levels. Or perhaps Elite missions for fleets, and Elite missions for single players.

Sure, the missions could be much more dangerous, but so could the rewards. I know I'd play a lot of these missions instead of spinning ships as much as I do.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#2 - 2012-12-18 12:18:15 UTC
I personally think that all missions/ pve content needs a full rewrite. PVE in this game is so exceedingly dated it's not even amusing anymore.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#3 - 2012-12-18 13:20:08 UTC
I agree - Missions, belt rats and anomalies need a full revamp.
I'd say we need 1/3 the NPC's with 3x the dps, hitpoints, bounties and better AI.

Then work on all implementations in interesting missions and how they appear in belts and on gates...
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#4 - 2012-12-18 17:11:03 UTC
Agreed. Retribution's A.I. revamp is a step in the right direction, but things like mission/anom architecture need to be looked at first, considering the way these are setup under the assumption that they would be populated by dozens of gimped rats piloted by uneducated rejects rather than a few well fit npc ships with any resemblence of an organized core of crack pirates.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Callic Veratar
#5 - 2012-12-18 17:40:06 UTC
Pretty sure this is already in the cards. There was discussion of this sort of idea during ATX.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#6 - 2012-12-18 21:20:45 UTC
I fully support the idea as advocated by the OP. It's high time we had some love an attention on the PVE content, it should to all intents and purposes lead you towards confidence in pvp which many new players and carebears lack being yet another reason why they stay in high sec.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-19 09:12:49 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Pretty sure this is already in the cards. There was discussion of this sort of idea during ATX.


Got any links perhaps? I'd be really interested to learn more on this.
Mary Clarissa Titor
#8 - 2012-12-19 09:50:01 UTC
This is definitely already in the cards somewhere, isolated statements of that nature have been popping up in dev interviews and elsewhere. I'm just not sure all the consequences are fully understood. :)

While the whole discrepancy between PVP/PVE fits is silly, and the way mission rats pile up on you in large clouds is simply ridiculous, those clouds drive the economy. Get rid of the existing missions by replacing them with missions that are like common PVP situations, and:

  1. No more cheap meta mods
  2. Rig prices go through the roof and stay there, hanging on the antenna and singing rude songs.
  3. Deflation, no more bounties. Suddenly, wormholes become the only remaining ISK faucet.
  4. Ammo prices drop, you no longer need anywhere as much.


The list could probably go on. We might hate existing PVE, but we're dependent on it being what it is. All of this could probably be scaled accordingly -- well, except the ammo prices -- but it will need very close monitoring to get right. Introducing special 'PVP-like' missions in parallel, at least at first, is certainly a better take on this transition.
Jayarr Altol
Stakeholder Engagements.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#9 - 2012-12-19 12:16:30 UTC
Poors go away...
Mr VonBraun
Collegium Ignis
#10 - 2012-12-19 12:17:29 UTC
Mary Clarissa Titor wrote:
This is definitely already in the cards somewhere, isolated statements of that nature have been popping up in dev interviews and elsewhere. I'm just not sure all the consequences are fully understood. :)

While the whole discrepancy between PVP/PVE fits is silly, and the way mission rats pile up on you in large clouds is simply ridiculous, those clouds drive the economy. Get rid of the existing missions by replacing them with missions that are like common PVP situations, and:

  1. No more cheap meta mods
  2. Rig prices go through the roof and stay there, hanging on the antenna and singing rude songs.
  3. Deflation, no more bounties. Suddenly, wormholes become the only remaining ISK faucet.
  4. Ammo prices drop, you no longer need anywhere as much.


The list could probably go on. We might hate existing PVE, but we're dependent on it being what it is. All of this could probably be scaled accordingly -- well, except the ammo prices -- but it will need very close monitoring to get right. Introducing special 'PVP-like' missions in parallel, at least at first, is certainly a better take on this transition.



This is very true...perhaps we could have both? For example "Elite mission agents" as well as the regular ones? That way we could keep the rat-blob missions that help drive the economy,and have much harder,more demanding missions for those who want them?
Mary Clarissa Titor
#11 - 2012-12-19 12:41:56 UTC
Mr VonBraun wrote:
This is very true...perhaps we could have both? For example "Elite mission agents" as well as the regular ones? That way we could keep the rat-blob missions that help drive the economy,and have much harder,more demanding missions for those who want them?


I suspect that at least initially, this is the most practical way.


  1. Introduce "elite missions" and "elite mission agents" that do nothing but give out "elite missions".
  2. Only a few of those "elite missions" need to be available initially, and they need to be as PVP-like as possible.
  3. See how the players like them. Randomize them, so they're unpredictable and challenging, add more, but make sure they're still accessible to very new players on lower levels. Adjust the loot drops, salvage rates and bounties from these missions -- and these missions only -- so that they roughly match the time and effort expense in farming regular missions for the same time spent engaged in them. Let this iterate for at least a few months, or even longer.
  4. Only when the results are satisfactory, and it doesn't look like the economy will crumble anymore, replace regular mission agents with "elite" ones.


Doing something similar to belt rats along the way will probably be in order as well.
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-12-19 13:50:35 UTC
Well yeah that's why I wanted them added ON TOP of the normal missions, so that people can start out with normal missions, and work their way up to PvP in the end. PvP will always be the hardest of course, but with elite missions they will atleast feel they got some grasp of what is going on.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#13 - 2012-12-19 14:13:04 UTC
You know, this will just result in all drone users start whining on the forums.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#14 - 2012-12-19 15:34:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Meditril wrote:
You know, this will just result in all drone users start whining on the forums.


Lol this, there's plenty of whining on the forums already, most of the drone users and the winmater have been responding in kind by telling the missile users to 'suck it up and live with it'. Coming back to the OP I think elite missions on top of the regular ones for the time being is probably the best way forward.

Make the npc's behave like incursions on steroids although only have a few of them, if you complete the mission you should be ready for the next stage which is real pvp

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-12-19 21:05:58 UTC
Meditril wrote:
You know, this will just result in all drone users start whining on the forums.


You mean if an NPC suddenly smartbombed?
DSpite Culhach
#16 - 2012-12-20 14:22:58 UTC
I could write ideas for days on making new missions, as could a lot of you, the problem I have thought is that as far as the actual "scripts" and room layouts, I have no real idea as to what they look like as code.

One of the things that has made Portal 2 frigging awesome has been the level editor, as there's now more levels that its possible to play, even if you just stick with the high rated ones. I reckon that if we had access to EVE mission code we could easily make far better stuff then is currently available, since we have run L4's and anoms to death and know whats fun and what's boring.

I want CCP to have a "design new Missions competition", that way, they pick say the best 20 (30, 40, 50, ...) for each L1-L4 category , revamp, and do again in a year. If that does not make missions interesting again, nothing will.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Mary Clarissa Titor
#17 - 2012-12-20 14:26:04 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
I want CCP to have a "design new Missions competition", that way, they pick say the best 20 (30, 40, 50, ...) for each L1-L4 category , revamp, and do again in a year. If that does not make missions interesting again, nothing will.


Amen!
Luka Datitties
Star-Gate Command
#18 - 2012-12-20 16:44:43 UTC
Mary Clarissa Titor wrote:


  1. No more cheap meta mods
  2. Rig prices go through the roof and stay there, hanging on the antenna and singing rude songs.
  3. Deflation, no more bounties. Suddenly, wormholes become the only remaining ISK faucet.
  4. Ammo prices drop, you no longer need anywhere as much.

1. Meta mods are produced only by killing rats. Meta gear is only cheap because it is a: plentiful or b: useless. It is still used to modify invention outcome no matter how useless the meta version is.
2. Clearly the salvage drops would need to be modified to compensate.
3. Why provide zero bounties? Fewer rats with bounties would make sense. Wormholes are not an isk faucet since isk is not created from nothing. It's just redistribution of existing isk.
4. Stronger rats require more ammo to kill. They also tend to repair more so soloist missioners would probably use more ammo on a mission assuming total NPC HP are the same but with fewer and stronger enemies.
androch
LitlCorp
#19 - 2012-12-20 17:06:06 UTC
where do people keep coming up with these stupid ideas from???
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#20 - 2012-12-20 17:50:06 UTC
Luka Datitties wrote:
Mary Clarissa Titor wrote:


  1. No more cheap meta mods
  2. Rig prices go through the roof and stay there, hanging on the antenna and singing rude songs.
  3. Deflation, no more bounties. Suddenly, wormholes become the only remaining ISK faucet.
  4. Ammo prices drop, you no longer need anywhere as much.

1. Meta mods are produced only by killing rats. Meta gear is only cheap because it is a: plentiful or b: useless. It is still used to modify invention outcome no matter how useless the meta version is.
2. Clearly the salvage drops would need to be modified to compensate.
3. Why provide zero bounties? Fewer rats with bounties would make sense. Wormholes are not an isk faucet since isk is not created from nothing. It's just redistribution of existing isk.
4. Stronger rats require more ammo to kill. They also tend to repair more so soloist missioners would probably use more ammo on a mission assuming total NPC HP are the same but with fewer and stronger enemies.

1. Meta mods are far from useless. Some meta 4 mods are better than T2, (like TP - same stats, uses less cap & easier to fit.) Also, it takes a long time to skill for T2 for everything. New players will be using meta gear for a long time. I've been playing for a year and there are still items I use that are meta. Drop rates can be changed as needed though.
2. Salvage drops could also be altered.
3. Fewer but tougher rats would need higher bounties to remain in line. WH's are a faucet. Sleeper loot is sold to NPC buy orders, that's a faucet. (Note I said loot, not salvage.)
4. Ammo can't drop by much, its already on the make cost line in the majority of trade hubs, but mission hubs it could drop... Bang goes a good chunk of my passive income...

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