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Gallente Battlecruisers.

Author
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-12-18 11:05:26 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Andres Talas wrote:
Kitty Bear,

Before you post a fit like that in a newbie forum again, go be a good EFT warrior and see just how long it takes to train all the stuff you listed.

I agree, its an excellent Myrm fit. But its also a very tuned, high skill fit, and therefore completely unsuitable for his needs.

What he needs is something thats usable with maybe a week of training - not great. Usable. Something that will help him have fun by being able to help his friend.



like ive posted before in the newbie forum

i dont tell people what they need to now ..... i tell people what they need to know later but that they can still use now.
and that fit is usable now
each T2 module has a T1 module with a lower skill requirement
my only mistake was i forgot to include the "training for T2 modules required" disclaimer


a smart person looking at a fit that they don't have the current skills for will say "I don't have the skills for that T2 fit yet, but now i know what to train for, and will just use T1 stuff instead"
or am i meant to assume that the posters here are stupid aswell new to eve ?


Sometimes you can't just downgrade to T1 cause that won't fit the ship regarding CPU/PG/Capacitor.
You could use the T2 fit if you also drop a T1 fit that actually works.

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Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#22 - 2012-12-18 11:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Aptenodytes
Yep, and dropping those cap recharger II's and the rigs down to T1 will have a significant decrease in cap recharge, making the whole thing not cap stable. Converting a T2 fit into a working T1 fit is far from a trivial matter, and I wouldn't expect a newbie to be able to do it competently.
Senshi Hawk
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-12-18 11:13:50 UTC
Davith en Divalone wrote:
I'd recommend against the Myrmidon as a low-skill BC right now. It's primary source of DPS depends on having Drones V at a minimum. Scout Drone Operation V and racial drone specialty skills shortly follow.

Keeping drones alive appears to be more challenging with a Myrm compared to smaller ships.


How is it more challenging to have exponentially more drones in your bay in reserve? I do lose more in a Myrm than with smaller ships but that is because I get big-headed about having so much expendable DPS.

I'd say the Myrm is the way to go here - a good, solid PVE ship that can be used down the road as an average PVP ship. I would advise against training too deep into drones. Go for the T2 lights, mediums and all the "utility drones". Before you train into T2 sentries and heavys, reassess your career path. You'll need to accept sooner or later that PVP can be very cruel to Gallente pilots and for the sake of longevity you may need to crosstrain into a 2nd race.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-12-18 13:21:22 UTC
The Myrm does have its drone-tanking bonus alongside its drone damage and armor repair bonuses, so its drones will last a little longer - but frigates will still tackle drones, so you'll have to learn to care for them. (Doesn't help that while the NPC hostiles got their intelligence buffed, drones are still dumber than a bag of hammers.)

Ten Ton Hammer's article on a mission-fit Myrmidon looks to still be good, at: http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/ships/mission-myrmidon - that's a solo-level-3 fit, though.

When I was learning BC's a year ago, my preferred fit had five 250mm rails (meta-3 in my case) and a drone-link augmentor in the highs, with three CCC rigs, three cap rechargers, tracking computer, and 10MN MWD in the mids, and ... well, I hate to admit it, but I sort of tried to omni-tank it in the lows, with two medium armor reps, two energized nanos, a damage control, and a power diagnostic to give me room for the railguns. (This was before drone damage amps.)

I hadn't learned about the advantages of autocannon yet (given how much cap the Myrm's tank chews up, capless guns are a godsend).

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Acrel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-12-18 16:01:31 UTC
As a 2-day old character, I wouldn't be worrying about flying a battlecruiser quite yet. You won't be able to fly one effectively for about two months at least. I would focus on getting my core combat and fitting skills up, and get good at flying the smaller stuff before I move up. You'll just be disappointed by larger ships if you hop in them too fast.
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-12-18 17:00:16 UTC
Senshi Hawk wrote:
Davith en Divalone wrote:
I'd recommend against the Myrmidon as a low-skill BC right now. It's primary source of DPS depends on having Drones V at a minimum. Scout Drone Operation V and racial drone specialty skills shortly follow.

Keeping drones alive appears to be more challenging with a Myrm compared to smaller ships.


How is it more challenging to have exponentially more drones in your bay in reserve? I do lose more in a Myrm than with smaller ships but that is because I get big-headed about having so much expendable DPS.


The Myrm only gets 25m3 more than the Vexor, and the same drone bay volume as the Arbitrator.

I might be extrapolating from too small a sample. Light drones seem to take much more aggression in a Myrm than I get in an Ishkur. Mediums also take a fair bit of aggro. The result is less sustained DPS and shorter effective range if you need to recall frequently. And at 500K ISK per drone, I can't sacrifice too many Tech 2 drones before it's not worthwhile for what I'm using them for. Sacrificing Tech 2 drones in level 3 missions would certainly cut deep into your profit margin. Using Tech 1 drones cuts your primary DPS by ~20%.

All of which can be mitigated a bit by Drone Navigation, Drone Durability, and ship skills, but that's more time on the training queue. Either way, I think turret- or missile-bonused battlecruisers are an easier entrypoint to BC PvE compared to the complexities of drone PvE combat right now.
Andres Talas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-12-18 23:17:48 UTC
Davith en Divalone wrote:


I might be extrapolating from too small a sample. Light drones seem to take much more aggression in a Myrm than I get in an Ishkur. Mediums also take a fair bit of aggro. The result is less sustained DPS and shorter effective range if you need to recall frequently. And at 500K ISK per drone, I can't sacrifice too many Tech 2 drones before it's not worthwhile for what I'm using them for. Sacrificing Tech 2 drones in level 3 missions would certainly cut deep into your profit margin. Using Tech 1 drones cuts your primary DPS by ~20%.

All of which can be mitigated a bit by Drone Navigation, Drone Durability, and ship skills, but that's more time on the training queue. Either way, I think turret- or missile-bonused battlecruisers are an easier entrypoint to BC PvE compared to the complexities of drone PvE combat right now.


Pretty much, which is why my solution is a flight of drones called 'Expendables', which are T1 hobgoblins, and a flight of drones called 'Lights', which are T2 Warrior IIs, and that leaves 100m3 in the bay for T2 mediums (I havent trained T2 heavies, so its them or Navy Sentries, which at 5m a pop Im not recommending for new pilots).

If Im pretty sure the drones will do something dumb and I dont want to micromanage them, then the Expendables get sent out.

If That Scram Frig Must Die Now, then I send out the Warrior IIs.
Jose Black
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-12-19 13:55:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jose Black
Mara Rinn wrote:
Myrmidon with T2 sentry drones. Use Garde IIs and you'll be pushing about 500DPS to 50km.

For a two day old char T2 sentries are a bit out of reach. Also with 75 m³ bandwith and thus 3 sentries you won't make it even remotely close to 500 dps, let alone with 2 days worth of skills.


For the long run a Talos would be the most fun when assisting with someone else's missions, but you have to have serious gunnery skills and preferably experience with flying battleships to make it shine.

Brutix isn't exactly easy to fit or forgiving for low skill levels either, so personally I would go for a Myrmidon. It's versatile when it comes to fitting and also quite resistant towards incoming damage.
Doddy
Excidium.
#29 - 2012-12-19 15:40:21 UTC
To be honest a new char in a bc is going to need to fit alot of tank to deal with the damage switch and may not be much use. They may be more help flying a dessie and popping all the frigs as npc bs and probably bcs will ignore them.
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