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High Sec / Low Sec / Null Sec Truth in Relation.

First post
Author
Father Amarria
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-17 14:14:03 UTC
O'k yes High Sec Industry is 10 x easier then Low or Null Industry operations.

Fact you can't just warp into a high sec systems and start blowing up another Corp's / Alliance's PoS with a fleet of Dreads, Carriers, and Super Carriers with out a Active War Dec, and well you can not fly the instant popping Birds of Prey either in High Sec.

As far as High Sec Mining Goes, Does not matter if they Nerf Ore Yields by 50% less. The Refine into Mins = the Isk.
So if they did nerf it Striving Industry players in High Sec would just add one more account and one more Hulk to their fleet to make up the balance lost. As it is now 1 hulk = 200 mil Isk a day +/- Mineral Value in Potential Profits.

The reason why so many Industry folks remain in High Sec is it does not take a Massive group to Protect its daily activities.

No one likes loosing ships No matter where you play EVE a loss of a ship is like loosing your best friend. Yeah its replaceable, but ya hate it.

Null Sec / Low Sec was designed for the PVP style players. Yes there is great amounts of Better Mineral yielding ORE in Null Sec.
Trust us We know it.

But having to PoS up and hault operations at any given time Sucks. So why deal with it, when you do not have to?

Most of us have Back Up Fleets for when War Dec's Occur.

High Sec Operations can come to a crashing hault when under a war dec. So most of us are Solo Pilots operating our own Corps and running Multiple accounts.

You Choose to move to Null Sec knowing the limitations of what you are getting yourself into.

Low / Null Sec means willing to PVP, means knowing you are a open target that at any time does not require a war dec to have your ass handed to you.

Nerfing high sec won't make me quit playing EVE it will just give me X Y Z reasons to start more accounts to keep the ISK flow going.
Pretty GuyYeah
#2 - 2012-12-17 14:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pretty GuyYeah
The problem is that the nullsec alliances ingore what they actually are.

They are empires. Empire builders, ever heard of it?

If only they would actually try to build an empire that could be used for something else than measure e-peen on the territory map..


And if they would actually bother to provide some half decent citizenship to people in the nullsec empires people may actually also go there. But no. It's a huge band of pirates that looks only to kill you - so why in the world do you think people don't want to come to your empire?

It's all a question of empire; in which do you want to live? One the tries to protect you or one that hunts you, griefs you and kills you?



If they need something from CCP to make this easier for them, then ask for god's sake. There's nothing more stupid than to ask them to nerf highsec because you're too bad to provide it yourself.

"Carebears are bad, they don't want to enter the PvP territory that we own in which we kill everyone who enters. Better nerf hisec because we're doing everything perfect."

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2012-12-17 14:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
The problem is that the nullsec alliances ingore what they actually are.

They are empires. Empire builders, ever heard of it?
No, the problem is that the game mechanics don't allow for empire building on a scale that even remotely comes close to providing the facilities and expedience offered by highsec. Until they allow for that, the alliances should remember that they are not — and never can be — empires.

Father Amarria wrote:
You Choose to move to Null Sec knowing the limitations of what you are getting yourself into.
…and they also chose highsec because the lack of limitations, and that's where the entire problem lies: the supposedly player-run areas are more limited in what players can do than the NPC-run ones. It really should be the other way around so that they can choose to actually, fully move to null sec.
Pretty GuyYeah
#4 - 2012-12-17 14:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Pretty GuyYeah
Tippia wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
The problem is that the nullsec alliances ingore what they actually are.

They are empires. Empire builders, ever heard of it?
The problem is that the game mechanics don't allow for empire building on a scale that even remotely comes close to providing the facilities and expedience offered by highsec.

Father Amarria wrote:
You Choose to move to Null Sec knowing the limitations of what you are getting yourself into.
…and they also chose highsec because the lack of limitations, and that's where the entire problem lies: the supposedly player-run areas are more limited in what players can do than the NPC-run ones. It really should be the other way around so that they can choose to actually, fully move to null sec.




I clearly stated that if so; they should ask for exactly those tools - to build an empire.

Nerfing hisec won't make people steam into their empire, that's simply beyond stupid.




Those who conquer space are either empire builders or a huge clutches of pirates. These empires wonder why nobody wants to live in their space when they kill them as soon as possible once they enter. Obviously nobody wants to live in the middle of a huge group of pirates who seek to kill you.

If you don't see the flawed logic here then I'm out of words






An empire builder should conquer space, but no more than they can control. Then go ahead and actually create some content; be an EMPIRE, not just a rotting clutch of pirates. CREATE something with the space you have. Invite people in to live with you.


Trust me, we wouldn't live in hisec either if CONCORD consistently tried to kill us.

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2012-12-17 14:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Nerfing hisec won't make people steam into their empire, that's simply beyond stupid.
No, but it will mean that it becomes worth-while to build something that's better than what highsec has to offer so that there is something to steam towards.

The benchmark highsec offers is simply far too high in terms of availability and ease of use. And giving people the means to build an empire that is even better than what highsec currently offers will have some not entirely positive consequences for the economy at large.

It's not stupid. It's just economy.
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#6 - 2012-12-17 14:34:49 UTC
Father Amarria wrote:
a loss of a ship is like loosing your best friend. Yeah its replaceable, but ya hate it.

I feel sort of glad we're not friends.

"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk

Be careful what you wish for.

Pretty GuyYeah
#7 - 2012-12-17 14:35:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Nerfing hisec won't make people steam into their empire, that's simply beyond stupid.
No, but it will mean that it becomes worth-while to build something that's better than what highsec has to offer so that there is something to steam towards.

The benchmark highsec offers is simply far too high in terms of availability and ease of use. And giving people the means to build an empire that is even better than what highsec currently offers will have some not entirely positive consequences for the economy at large.

It's not stupid. It's just economy.



Utterly wrong.

It will simply cause more people of this "empire" that wonders why people wont go there; to set up more gate camps than they already have.




It's the empires that need to change, not a high sec that needs nerfing.

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.

Father Amarria
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-12-17 14:36:42 UTC
The problem remains and always will remain.

If an alliance / Sov can not see the potential flow of minerals to its Null Sec operations from it's High Sec Corp's it could bring into it, then they need to rethink their strategy.

I agree The Null Sec groups that live there are building an Empire, which not only needs masses in its domain, but it needs the hard working miners from it's High Sec dwellers.

If Ratting in Null Sec is a profitable past time, then start selling Dead Space / Officer / Faction Mods that drop in mass qty.

High Sec Incursion runners Love the Mods for their ships.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-12-17 14:37:11 UTC
Oh, cool.... another high/low/nul thread to post my joke in Lol

I've got a joke I've been working on today. Here goes, alright?

Three capsuleers are on their way to prison. They are each allowed to take one item with them to help them occupy their time while incarcerated. One is from high sec, one from low, and one from nul. On the shuttle to the prison, the high seccer turns to the low seccer and asks, "So, what did you bring?"

The low seccer pulls out a box of spray paints and states that he intends to graffiti anything he can. He wants to become the "Grandma Moses of Jail". Then he asks the high seccer, "What did you bring?"

The high seccer pulls out a deck of cards and grins and says, "I brought cards. I can play poker, solitaire, gin, and any number of games."

"You *****," the low seccer announces, "I'm gonna paint your cards, too."

"Oh very mature," says the high seccer, "I bet you wouldn't, not without a whole bunch of people holding me down. You low seccers are all the same - can't hack a fair fight."

The nul seccer was sitting quietly aside, grinning to himself. The other two took notice and asked, "Why are you so smug? What did you bring?"

The guy pulled out a box of tampons and smiles. He says, "I brought these."

The other two are puzzled and ask, "What can you do with those?"

He grinned and pointed to the box and said, "Well according to the box, I can go horseback riding, swimming, roller-skating...."

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Pretty GuyYeah
#10 - 2012-12-17 14:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Pretty GuyYeah
Father Amarria wrote:
The problem remains and always will remain.

If an alliance / Sov can not see the potential flow of minerals to its Null Sec operations from it's High Sec Corp's it could bring into it, then they need to rethink their strategy.

I agree The Null Sec groups that live there are building an Empire, which not only needs masses in its domain, but it needs the hard working miners from it's High Sec dwellers.

If Ratting in Null Sec is a profitable past time, then start selling Dead Space / Officer / Faction Mods that drop in mass qty.

High Sec Incursion runners Love the Mods for their ships.



Then again; it is not an empire. It's just a clutch of pirates crying because they have a low in-come.


People who conquer nullsec space should be empire builders. Create an empire in which you can actually live. If not, you're just a bunch of pirates and minerals should NOT be more profitable in those areas. This is their argument. We are pirates who have a huge amount of space. Why are no miners coming here? We have nothing to gank!?!?!? nerf hisec





People should look up what an empire builder is and what a pirate is. Once you know the difference, people may want to actually enter your space.


For instance, goonswarm and other nullsec alliance claim to be an empire but their ores are not profitable enough to compete with the npc empires. This is nothing but bull. They are pirates who kill anyone who enters their space. They are too bad to build an appealing empire people want to live in and so they cry out for the ores of high sec to be nerfed in hopes they can attract miners to their space they may gank and have a laugh with.

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.

Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#11 - 2012-12-17 14:39:30 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Oh, cool.... another high/low/nul thread to post my joke in Lol

I've got a joke I've been working on today. Here goes, alright?

Three capsuleers are on their way to prison. They are each allowed to take one item with them to help them occupy their time while incarcerated. One is from high sec, one from low, and one from nul. On the shuttle to the prison, the high seccer turns to the low seccer and asks, "So, what did you bring?"

The low seccer pulls out a box of spray paints and states that he intends to graffiti anything he can. He wants to become the "Grandma Moses of Jail". Then he asks the high seccer, "What did you bring?"

The high seccer pulls out a deck of cards and grins and says, "I brought cards. I can play poker, solitaire, gin, and any number of games."

"You *****," the low seccer announces, "I'm gonna paint your cards, too."

"Oh very mature," says the high seccer, "I bet you wouldn't, not without a whole bunch of people holding me down. You low seccers are all the same - can't hack a fair fight."

The nul seccer was sitting quietly aside, grinning to himself. The other two took notice and asked, "Why are you so smug? What did you bring?"

The guy pulled out a box of tampons and smiles. He says, "I brought these."

The other two are puzzled and ask, "What can you do with those?"

He grinned and pointed to the box and said, "Well according to the box, I can go horseback riding, swimming, roller-skating...."


so i see you are a strugling comedian...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2012-12-17 14:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Utterly wrong.
Not in any way, actually.

Quote:
It will simply cause more people of this "empire" that wonders why people wont go there; to set up more gate camps than they already have.
Too bad that what you're claiming is just a big pile of straw men.

You assign them a role that they simply cannot have because the game doesn't allow it.
You then assign them a task that relies on them having this role they can't have.
You then assign them an opinion that goes against this task that they can't have because the role required is impossible.
You then blame them for the logic they don't use…

In reality, they actually do the exact opposite of what you claim.

Quote:
This is their argument. We are pirates who have a huge amount of space. Why are no miners coming here? We have nothing to gank!?!?!? nerf hisec
No, it really isn't. It's all yours.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-17 14:41:30 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Oh, cool.... another high/low/nul thread to post my joke in Lol

I've got a joke I've been working on today. Here goes, alright?

Three capsuleers are on their way to prison. They are each allowed to take one item with them to help them occupy their time while incarcerated. One is from high sec, one from low, and one from nul. On the shuttle to the prison, the high seccer turns to the low seccer and asks, "So, what did you bring?"

The low seccer pulls out a box of spray paints and states that he intends to graffiti anything he can. He wants to become the "Grandma Moses of Jail". Then he asks the high seccer, "What did you bring?"

The high seccer pulls out a deck of cards and grins and says, "I brought cards. I can play poker, solitaire, gin, and any number of games."

"You *****," the low seccer announces, "I'm gonna paint your cards, too."

"Oh very mature," says the high seccer, "I bet you wouldn't, not without a whole bunch of people holding me down. You low seccers are all the same - can't hack a fair fight."

The nul seccer was sitting quietly aside, grinning to himself. The other two took notice and asked, "Why are you so smug? What did you bring?"

The guy pulled out a box of tampons and smiles. He says, "I brought these."

The other two are puzzled and ask, "What can you do with those?"

He grinned and pointed to the box and said, "Well according to the box, I can go horseback riding, swimming, roller-skating...."


so i see you are a strugling comedian...


I see you are a struggling troll with no sense of humour. Roll

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-17 14:43:17 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Oh, cool.... another high/low/nul thread to post my joke in Lol


please don't do that again.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Pretty GuyYeah
#15 - 2012-12-17 14:43:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Not in any way, actually.


Yep, in every way indeed.

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-12-17 14:44:24 UTC
dexington wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Oh, cool.... another high/low/nul thread to post my joke in Lol


please don't do that again.


Because you asked, I'm going to have to do it at least once more.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-17 14:44:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:

In reality, they actually do the exact opposite of what you claim.


No, they do not.


I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

TharOkha
0asis Group
#18 - 2012-12-17 14:47:21 UTC
Do we need another topic on this?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-12-17 14:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Not in any way, actually.

Yep, in every way indeed.
Compelling evidence. After all, that must be why the problem I'm describing is the one that's slated to be fixed, and the one you're describing isn't (unless you plan on getting your hands on some prescription anti-hallucinogens).

The fact remains: alliances can't be empires because the game does not allow them to be. Even if they could, the benchmark of highsec is far too high to allow for a balanced game. At no point does “why don't we have targets?” come into it — the targets will be the same as always: nullseccers.

dexington wrote:
No, they do not.
Yes they do. Ask to join their not-empires, and they will let you.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#20 - 2012-12-17 14:47:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
The problem is that the nullsec alliances ingore what they actually are.

They are empires. Empire builders, ever heard of it?
No, the problem is that the game mechanics don't allow for empire building on a scale that even remotely comes close to providing the facilities and expedience offered by highsec. Until they allow for that, the alliances should remember that they are not — and never can be — empires.

Father Amarria wrote:
You Choose to move to Null Sec knowing the limitations of what you are getting yourself into.
…and they also chose highsec because the lack of limitations, and that's where the entire problem lies: the supposedly player-run areas are more limited in what players can do than the NPC-run ones. It really should be the other way around so that they can choose to actually, fully move to null sec.


Just wanted to highlight that part, THAT is the core problem.

Funny part is high sec people are constantly asking to be left alone, but when anyone proposes changes that would amount to people leaving them alone because things can now be done in null sec, they pitch a fit lol.
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