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Falcon's = Combat Killer

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SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#101 - 2012-12-17 03:34:47 UTC
Webbing Drones suffer from travel time. The time when a web is most needed is when someone is burning back to a gate, and you need the web RIGHT NOW, not when drones can get there. You could honestly delete these stupid things from the game and literally nothing would be lost.

I'm not even going to discuss the other ones as they are flat out ********.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#102 - 2012-12-17 03:46:44 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:
Came on here looking for a discussion and got greeted with the usually eve space mines, trolls, flamers

~Everyone who doesn't agree with me is a troll.

Troll.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#103 - 2012-12-17 05:17:29 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Ok - a few years ago i remember CCP talking about the reason why they changes the doomsday affect from area to target specific.

I agreed with a lot of their thinking, titan AOE doomsdays killed battles.

I am finding that Falcons are in my opinion coming close to being "battle killers"; its relative ease at how it can sit cloaked, and then uncloak to jam targets to me is what is painful; some of the lamest tactics are at play here. sabre on gate go to engage uncloak falcon and sit for 30 + seconds and not be able to defend yourself is quite honestly a game killer.

I like to PVP and I have been using smaller ships since they have give me chest beating than using 250m ships - if i lose my small ship to a falcon jamming is less painful than losing a 250m ship. However, what ever the cost of ship - the falcon is quite honestly a battle killer. i guess this is coming from a point of view of a solo pvp'er but in any sized gang being able to not defend yourself against a falcon or for that matter a BB, is what for me is killing PVP.




I'm curious. Have you tried to destroy these falcons?


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-12-17 05:19:20 UTC
Why web when you can jam?
Why paint when you can jam?
Why damp when you can jam?
Why neut when you can jam?
Why tracking disrupt when you can jam?

Fact is the target not being able to lock anything to apply damage or tackle is far more powerful than the other stuff above for EW drones.
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#105 - 2012-12-17 07:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: OkaskiKali
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:
Ok - a few years ago i remember CCP talking about the reason why they changes the doomsday affect from area to target specific.

I agreed with a lot of their thinking, titan AOE doomsdays killed battles.

I am finding that Falcons are in my opinion coming close to being "battle killers"; its relative ease at how it can sit cloaked, and then uncloak to jam targets to me is what is painful; some of the lamest tactics are at play here. sabre on gate go to engage uncloak falcon and sit for 30 + seconds and not be able to defend yourself is quite honestly a game killer.

I like to PVP and I have been using smaller ships since they have give me chest beating than using 250m ships - if i lose my small ship to a falcon jamming is less painful than losing a 250m ship. However, what ever the cost of ship - the falcon is quite honestly a battle killer. i guess this is coming from a point of view of a solo pvp'er but in any sized gang being able to not defend yourself against a falcon or for that matter a BB, is what for me is killing PVP.




I'm curious. Have you tried to destroy these falcons?




In the ships I fly - No, i'm perma jammed in my BC, Cruiser, AS, Frig, Destoyer. The problem is with any class of ship lower than a BC you are pretty much un able to defend or attack, there isn't a reasonable counter to it.

In all of my posts I've tried to make the point that flying a falcon involves relatively no decisions and judgements. I've seen people mention using Logi being like a falcon - in a lot of ways you're probably right, is it a battle decider - yes, will i choose not to engage a ship that has a logi on the field - yes. Does a logi leave me unable to defend myself if for some reason i chose to fight - No... As you can see if we went down the same logic used to nerf the AOE Titan, then when we consider if these ships stop people from engaging - i believe we do. But the reasons why i have specifically called out the falcon is becuase anyone can stick an ewar module on their ship - the ability of the pilot of the different bonused ewar ships (BB, Kitsune and falcon) is never really made to "work" to win. In all other categories of engagement the pilot has to make a choice on whether to engage,

take for instance a typical engagement with a pilgrim:
am i close enough in my pilgrim to get my scramb, neuts, webbs and Tracking Disrupter on,
Make sure that my transversal is up
Am I under the guns of target ship
Micro manage my modules
are my drones doing any damage yet.......

A typical engagement for a falcon is (since you never see a falcon being flown solo)
alt tackles target
decloak
sit at range
choose right jammer
win

not exactly what I would call "difficult" decisions.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#106 - 2012-12-17 07:23:39 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:
Ok - a few years ago i remember CCP talking about the reason why they changes the doomsday affect from area to target specific.

I agreed with a lot of their thinking, titan AOE doomsdays killed battles.

I am finding that Falcons are in my opinion coming close to being "battle killers"; its relative ease at how it can sit cloaked, and then uncloak to jam targets to me is what is painful; some of the lamest tactics are at play here. sabre on gate go to engage uncloak falcon and sit for 30 + seconds and not be able to defend yourself is quite honestly a game killer.

I like to PVP and I have been using smaller ships since they have give me chest beating than using 250m ships - if i lose my small ship to a falcon jamming is less painful than losing a 250m ship. However, what ever the cost of ship - the falcon is quite honestly a battle killer. i guess this is coming from a point of view of a solo pvp'er but in any sized gang being able to not defend yourself against a falcon or for that matter a BB, is what for me is killing PVP.




I'm curious. Have you tried to destroy these falcons?




In the ships I fly - No, i'm perma jammed in my BC, Cruiser, AS, Frig, Destoyer. The problem is with any class of ship lower than a BC you are pretty much un able to defend or attack, there isn't a reasonable counter to it.

In all of my posts I've tried to make the point that flying a falcon involves relatively no decisions and judgements. I've seen people mention using Logi being like a falcon - in a lot of ways you're probably right, is it a battle decider - yes, will i choose not to engage a ship that has a logi on the field - yes. Does a logi leave me unable to defend myself if for some reason i chose to fight - No... As you can see if we went down the same logic used to nerf the AOE Titan, then when we consider if these ships stop people from engaging - i believe we do. But the reasons why i have specifically called out the falcon is becuase anyone can stick an ewar module on their ship - the ability of the pilot of the different bonused ewar ships (BB, Kitsune and falcon) is never really made to "work" to win.



Thanks for the detailed reply.

I suppose the lock breaker and the micro jump mod might be enough to send in a disco SB but that's probably suicide. My experience with falcons is NIL.
(but I do love the Guristas mission permajam myself).

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#107 - 2012-12-17 07:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: OkaskiKali
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:
Ok - a few years ago i remember CCP talking about the reason why they changes the doomsday affect from area to target specific.

I agreed with a lot of their thinking, titan AOE doomsdays killed battles.

I am finding that Falcons are in my opinion coming close to being "battle killers"; its relative ease at how it can sit cloaked, and then uncloak to jam targets to me is what is painful; some of the lamest tactics are at play here. sabre on gate go to engage uncloak falcon and sit for 30 + seconds and not be able to defend yourself is quite honestly a game killer.

I like to PVP and I have been using smaller ships since they have give me chest beating than using 250m ships - if i lose my small ship to a falcon jamming is less painful than losing a 250m ship. However, what ever the cost of ship - the falcon is quite honestly a battle killer. i guess this is coming from a point of view of a solo pvp'er but in any sized gang being able to not defend yourself against a falcon or for that matter a BB, is what for me is killing PVP.




I'm curious. Have you tried to destroy these falcons?




In the ships I fly - No, i'm perma jammed in my BC, Cruiser, AS, Frig, Destoyer. The problem is with any class of ship lower than a BC you are pretty much un able to defend or attack, there isn't a reasonable counter to it.

In all of my posts I've tried to make the point that flying a falcon involves relatively no decisions and judgements. I've seen people mention using Logi being like a falcon - in a lot of ways you're probably right, is it a battle decider - yes, will i choose not to engage a ship that has a logi on the field - yes. Does a logi leave me unable to defend myself if for some reason i chose to fight - No... As you can see if we went down the same logic used to nerf the AOE Titan, then when we consider if these ships stop people from engaging - i believe we do. But the reasons why i have specifically called out the falcon is becuase anyone can stick an ewar module on their ship - the ability of the pilot of the different bonused ewar ships (BB, Kitsune and falcon) is never really made to "work" to win.



Thanks for the detailed reply.

I suppose the lock breaker and the micro jump mod might be enough to send in a disco SB but that's probably suicide. My experience with falcons is NIL.
(but I do love the Guristas mission permajam myself).


Imagine being in the car park at your local supermarket. a guys come up to you and "engages"- he grabs you and you try to defend yourself against him - Without you knowing another person goes behind you and grabs your hands and manages to tie your hands together behind your back. That second person right there is your falcon pilot.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-12-17 09:35:31 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:
Ok - a few years ago i remember CCP talking about the reason why they changes the doomsday affect from area to target specific.

I agreed with a lot of their thinking, titan AOE doomsdays killed battles.

I am finding that Falcons are in my opinion coming close to being "battle killers"; its relative ease at how it can sit cloaked, and then uncloak to jam targets to me is what is painful; some of the lamest tactics are at play here. sabre on gate go to engage uncloak falcon and sit for 30 + seconds and not be able to defend yourself is quite honestly a game killer.

I like to PVP and I have been using smaller ships since they have give me chest beating than using 250m ships - if i lose my small ship to a falcon jamming is less painful than losing a 250m ship. However, what ever the cost of ship - the falcon is quite honestly a battle killer. i guess this is coming from a point of view of a solo pvp'er but in any sized gang being able to not defend yourself against a falcon or for that matter a BB, is what for me is killing PVP.




I'm curious. Have you tried to destroy these falcons?




In the ships I fly - No, i'm perma jammed in my BC, Cruiser, AS, Frig, Destoyer. The problem is with any class of ship lower than a BC you are pretty much un able to defend or attack, there isn't a reasonable counter to it.

In all of my posts I've tried to make the point that flying a falcon involves relatively no decisions and judgements. I've seen people mention using Logi being like a falcon - in a lot of ways you're probably right, is it a battle decider - yes, will i choose not to engage a ship that has a logi on the field - yes. Does a logi leave me unable to defend myself if for some reason i chose to fight - No... As you can see if we went down the same logic used to nerf the AOE Titan, then when we consider if these ships stop people from engaging - i believe we do. But the reasons why i have specifically called out the falcon is becuase anyone can stick an ewar module on their ship - the ability of the pilot of the different bonused ewar ships (BB, Kitsune and falcon) is never really made to "work" to win.



Thanks for the detailed reply.

I suppose the lock breaker and the micro jump mod might be enough to send in a disco SB but that's probably suicide. My experience with falcons is NIL.
(but I do love the Guristas mission permajam myself).


Imagine being in the car park at your local supermarket. 2 guys come up to you and "engage"- the first guys goes right in and grabs you and you try to defend yourself again him first - The other person goes behind you and grabs your hands and manages to tie your hands together behind your back. That second person right there is your falcon pilot.

Except you don't see the second guy come up behind you...
Xuse Senna
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#109 - 2012-12-17 09:58:19 UTC
Falcon Uncloaked, Primary Falcon. Dead Falcon.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7501/mindgamesceptionfinaldr.jpg
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2012-12-17 10:03:42 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Came on here looking for a discussion and got greeted with the usually eve space mines, trolls, flamers


Because you ignore all the advices and still state that Falcons are unbeatable.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#111 - 2012-12-17 10:03:44 UTC
Xuse Senna wrote:
Falcon Uncloaked, Primary Falcon. Dead Falcon.


*SIGH*....
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-12-17 10:04:45 UTC
Xuse Senna wrote:
Falcon Uncloaked, Primary Falcon. Dead Falcon.

Yeah, that is what I tried to do a little bit earlier. Would have worked too (if I was 50km closer...) if it was not for the 30 light ECM drones on me keeping me jammed...
Xuse Senna
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#113 - 2012-12-17 10:09:52 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Xuse Senna wrote:
Falcon Uncloaked, Primary Falcon. Dead Falcon.

Yeah, that is what I tried to do a little bit earlier. Would have worked too (if I was 50km closer...) if it was not for the 30 light ECM drones on me keeping me jammed...


Smartbomb

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7501/mindgamesceptionfinaldr.jpg
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2012-12-17 10:12:24 UTC
Xuse Senna wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Xuse Senna wrote:
Falcon Uncloaked, Primary Falcon. Dead Falcon.

Yeah, that is what I tried to do a little bit earlier. Would have worked too (if I was 50km closer...) if it was not for the 30 light ECM drones on me keeping me jammed...


Smartbomb


Yeah I was about to say that either. But then I realized: energy neutralizers can prevent you from killing those drones! NERF NEUTS!

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
#115 - 2012-12-17 10:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Buhhdust Princess
As a flyer of falcons, All i can say is

Blackbird > Falcon.

Also, nerf celestis!
Angelina Joliee
State War Academy
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-12-17 10:26:11 UTC
Summary:
OP engaged a sabre and a second ship decloaked to help the sabre => OP lost his ship and whines.

It doesnt matter, what type of ship the second one was - falcon, logistic, dps - in all cases you had lost.
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2012-12-17 10:32:48 UTC
Angelina Joliee wrote:
Summary:
OP engaged a sabre and a second ship decloaked to help the sabre => OP lost his ship and whines.

It doesnt matter, what type of ship the second one was - falcon, logistic, dps - in all cases you had lost.


But only the Falcon causes so much forum attention because ... yeah, because of Falcon. Not the neut-to-death-pilgrim, not the cant-get-away-anymore-rapier, not the tackle-and-damp-from-far-away-Arazu. No.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Xuse Senna
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#118 - 2012-12-17 10:38:20 UTC
Don't forget a Hug from a Huginn Roll

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7501/mindgamesceptionfinaldr.jpg
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2012-12-17 10:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Angelina Joliee wrote:
Summary:
OP engaged a sabre and a second ship decloaked to help the sabre => OP lost his ship and whines.

It doesnt matter, what type of ship the second one was - falcon, logistic, dps - in all cases you had lost.



It is funny when you put it in perspective.

If that Flacon had been pretty much anything else, he would have been dead. Hell, it could have been a Hulk with a flight of ecm drones or t2 hobgoblins, and it would have turned the tide. A logi would have undone the damage he did. A tier 3 BC or BS would have alpha'd him. A Daredevil would have webbed him to a crawl.

Sounds more like 2 vs 1 is the real combat killer here.
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#120 - 2012-12-17 10:44:06 UTC


Its obvious to see that a good few people understand the difference between debating and trolling and those who replied with valid points thank you.

Non the less it ended up being more about Do this, do that, there is this, there is that and non constructive flames that took over the discussion.

The point i wanted to discuss was Falcon = Battle killer and instead was met with the usually "op lost a ship", "can i has your stuff", "fly with alts", "nerf nerf nerf", "OP is a whiner"....

When are we (the people who want to discuss something on a forum) going to get any protection from the internet dweebs.

I also like to debate but its incredibly difficult on these forums. I think its time to visit one of the other forums so that I can actually debate the topic the topic further.

it's turned into the usually tripe expected on these forums.