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Proteus vs Tengu - L4 Mission Boat
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Anabelle Martinez
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-14 01:34:05 UTC
At the moment I fly the Proteus but using T2 blasters and having to fly around the mission field to get in range seems slow. I've got about equal skills for a Tengu but am unsure if it will be better ISK/Hour with a Tengu over a Proteus.

The only advantage of the Protues I can see at the moment is being able to grab full aggro in a room and not worry about it.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#2 - 2012-12-14 01:46:52 UTC
The Proteus isn't that great for missions, to do anything with blasters you need to fit an MWD which is bad for your sig radius and cap and there are a whole bunch of other ships that'll do the drone thing better and cheaper.

Tengu even with the HML nerf is still alright for running missions and you can even go for a HAM fit
Anabelle Martinez
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-14 01:49:22 UTC
Anything better you could suggest ISK/Hour wise? Can't use T2 battleships at the moment so I am a bit limited on choice.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#4 - 2012-12-14 01:53:48 UTC
Depends on how much you want to spend really, the Machariel is probably the most popular option but that's like 1.4 bill for the hull alone. Rattlesnake is pretty good too but I'm not sure how badly your drones will suffer, and of course there's the Nightmare if you like lasers
Anabelle Martinez
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-12-14 01:58:22 UTC
Hmm, always did like the rattlesnake. Might take advantage of both my missile and drone skills. I'll give that one a shot.

Thanks much!
Zaq Phelps
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2012-12-14 02:33:33 UTC
Anabelle Martinez wrote:
At the moment I fly the Proteus but using T2 blasters and having to fly around the mission field to get in range seems slow. I've got about equal skills for a Tengu but am unsure if it will be better ISK/Hour with a Tengu over a Proteus.

The only advantage of the Protues I can see at the moment is being able to grab full aggro in a room and not worry about it.


Tengu is quite capable of pulling full room aggro. Also HAMs are win now since they now are affected by GMP skill. HAMs can now do 800-900dps out to 23km (without range rigs or implants) and one volley frigates if painted, webbed, or the tengu is rigor/flare rigged. Since the tengu flys around at about 500-700 m/s depending on the afterburner, the lack of range vs HML is not really an issue. Also the high damage t2 ammo no longer gimps your tank by increasing your sig radius.

tl:dr Tengu is not a bad ship like everyone thought it would be after the HML nerf.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-14 10:49:21 UTC
post missile change the tengu is still ok in L4's

Prec HM -> 450dps @ 45km
Fury HM -> 600dps @ 70km
CN HM -> 500dps @ 90km
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#8 - 2012-12-14 16:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Backfyre
I experimented with blaster vs rail proteus and found a T2 rail version runs missions faster because you can spank targets out past 80km with iridium charges. I have 5x T2 rails and 5x T2 medium drones to get 500+ total DPS with plain vanilla anti-matter. More when I can fit more damage mods.

Rail proteus is not the ship of choice for the leet min/max mission runner, but it's not a bad choice either. It may even beat out the Domi all things considered.
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#9 - 2012-12-17 05:27:20 UTC
Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#10 - 2012-12-17 17:47:33 UTC
Bigg Gun wrote:
Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go

Sounds like EFT warrior numbers. How's that Domi do on time when you have 50km to the next gate? What is your "true" DPS when you account for waiting for those 120km targets to close range? How about pulling those drones back in when they get aggro under the new AI. How about swapping out the sentries when the frigs get too close or starting a mission where you are at point blank range on a dozen rats?

All that said, Navy Domi may be better than a proteus. Tengu is not a bad choice either. If you're gonna retrain to minimize time, there are better choices.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#11 - 2012-12-17 22:06:41 UTC
Tengu was, and remains (with HAMs) the god of PVE.

Tengu > Prot in isk/hour in pretty much all forms of PVE

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Earl Hazard
The Soul Society
Fraternity.
#12 - 2012-12-18 00:49:45 UTC
Proteus is very decent pve ship using rails. Tengu is still very good even after the hml nerf. Neither is the best at lvl 4s but very passable.
I do like to rat in the proteus but can't give you a great reason why other than I like it.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-18 01:16:18 UTC
Tengu is very solid even following missile changes.

I use the Proteus as my Kin/Therm mission runner where I believe it does very well. You do need to minimise tank and max gank to be effective though. It is especially good versus Serpentis where high mobility and close range DPS can counteract some of the sensor damping issues.

What is your fit like ?Are you using a microwarpdrive?
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#14 - 2012-12-18 02:27:05 UTC
Proteus is more of a PvP boat or for WHs.
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#15 - 2012-12-18 19:19:10 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Tengu was, and remains (with HAMs) the god of PVE.

A bit overstated. It was good but by no means "godly". My Kronos would beat out a tengu. I ran many missions with a corp mate with him in a heavy missile tengu. I popped the rats notably faster than he did. If you're talking a HAM tengu, you're back to the OP's original issue of spending a lot of time closing range.

Either tengu or proteus will do just fine. Just use a decent fit with plenty of range and gank.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#16 - 2012-12-18 19:50:06 UTC
Backfyre wrote:
Bigg Gun wrote:
Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go

Sounds like EFT warrior numbers. How's that Domi do on time when you have 50km to the next gate? What is your "true" DPS when you account for waiting for those 120km targets to close range? How about pulling those drones back in when they get aggro under the new AI. How about swapping out the sentries when the frigs get too close or starting a mission where you are at point blank range on a dozen rats?

All that said, Navy Domi may be better than a proteus. Tengu is not a bad choice either. If you're gonna retrain to minimize time, there are better choices.


How often do you really have 50km to the next gate though? I've run quite a few missions and those missions are few and far between.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
#17 - 2012-12-18 22:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ColdCutz
I'm a drone user mainly, so I have fun zipping around in a microwarpdrive Proteus with 3 Modal Neutrons and 4 Ogre II's. Currently I can squeeze out a 453dps Angel tank while doing 579dps short range damage, but flying cap stable at 1600m/s mitigates the travel time between each battleship. The speed generally balances out the sigbloom, but then you just cut off the prop when you start to orbit anyway.

At full skills you can get the damage output up to around 681, or 781 with two Drone Damage II mods.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2012-12-18 23:28:16 UTC
Anabelle Martinez wrote:
At the moment I fly the Proteus but using T2 blasters and having to fly around the mission field to get in range seems slow. I've got about equal skills for a Tengu but am unsure if it will be better ISK/Hour with a Tengu over a Proteus.

The only advantage of the Protues I can see at the moment is being able to grab full aggro in a room and not worry about it.



if you fit right.. not kookie cutter.. you don't have to worry about full room aggro in a tengu either... and it doesn't need to cost billions to make it work.. At work, so don't have my fit handy.. but mail me and I will send it through. Otherwise a mach works great, even with meta 4 guns. Most of the BS will do just fine in lvl4's if you fit and fly them right.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-12-18 23:50:57 UTC
Backfyre wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Tengu was, and remains (with HAMs) the god of PVE.

A bit overstated. It was good but by no means "godly". My Kronos would beat out a tengu. I ran many missions with a corp mate with him in a heavy missile tengu. I popped the rats notably faster than he did. If you're talking a HAM tengu, you're back to the OP's original issue of spending a lot of time closing range.

Either tengu or proteus will do just fine. Just use a decent fit with plenty of range and gank.


Not that overstated, depending on your definition. The Tengu isn't the best at everything. But it is one of the ships that can do the most PVE tasks.

For example, your Kronos might be better in lvl 4 missions. How does it do with say, high sec exploration?(bad considering many hi sec sites are cruiser down). How about lowsec exploration? The tengu can be refit for scanning bonuses, cloaky travel, and has the align time to goof easier than your Kronos.

If I was doing strictly lvl 4 missions I'd probably pick the Kronos. If I could only fly one ship for PVE I'd pick a tengu.
Norm Tempesta
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-12-19 11:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Norm Tempesta
ColdCutz wrote:
I'm a drone user mainly, so I have fun zipping around in a microwarpdrive Proteus with 3 Modal Neutrons and 4 Ogre II's. Currently I can squeeze out a 453dps Angel tank while doing 579dps short range damage, but flying cap stable at 1600m/s mitigates the travel time between each battleship. The speed generally balances out the sigbloom, but then you just cut off the prop when you start to orbit anyway.

At full skills you can get the damage output up to around 681, or 781 with two Drone Damage II mods.



Dang, i missed something there. I get well over 900 dps, cap stable with mwd, using med drones. Actually can get over 1000 with a 5% dmg implant. The ship is a lot faster than ogres, so i just use guns and hammerheads.
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