These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Idea: Middle Security

First post
Author
Agromos nulKaedi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-17 00:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Agromos nulKaedi
This might be too big of a change but I wonder if it would work as a good idea to get people more comfortable with going to lower security than they do now. It seems like the jump from high to low is a bit too intense for the risk averse now, but if it was a little bit less dangerous - and there was a little bit less of the safe - they could expand a bit into compromise space. there, they could start being teased by the next level down. As it is, lowsec is a mythical instant death land and it's as hard to convince people there's isk there as it is to convince a miner that they aren't joining the ranks of the ultra-wealthy, because people assume that only hardened PVPers go there.

1.0-0.6: Pretty much as we know it.

0.5-0.4: Rewards are stepped up a bit. Rats are a little bit bigger - cruisers and destroyers are common. Uncommon ores appear here. CONCORD no longer blows people out of the sky anywhere in system. That job has been passed down to local police forces, who respond the same way as CONCORD does - but they're basically just tough rats, they can be tanked or destroyed. Plus, when they get there, if everyone is suspect and shooting each other anyways, they don't intervene. Their main form of intervention is actually logistic - they project a warp core stabilizer effect on an agressed and noncombative ship. CONCORD still protects stations and gates, so station camping and gate camping can still get you concorded. As such, even a clueless newbie can travel through here, and the PVP is a bit subdued - but you can still get in plenty of fights, and the worst that will happen is that the guy doesn't fight back and you have to cut off and run around hiding from the cops for awhile or fight them off while your target runs away. Rather than "omg if you mine here you'll die!" the advice will be "You can mine some cool stuff here, just pay attention and fit a good tank. If someone tries to gank you, all you have to do is survive till the police show up, then warp out, and pirates like to hunt the gankers too.."

0.1-0.3: Rough and tumble wildlands, like we know it. Remove sec status hits on players who aren't on grid with a station or gate when they fight.. they don't have enough evidence. Increase rewards for doing things out here a little bit, there's obvious rewards here that are not found in middle, just like there are things that middle has that aren't in high. Here and there, throw teasers out of what's on Null that isn't in lowsec now - gas clouds that get depleted very easily and the like - but they're pretty few and far between.

0.0: Add a few NPC null systems here and there near the fringes, as incubators so that new corps can hang out on the edge learning the ropes. Come up with some interesting and lucrative stuff along the lines of sleepers, set it to roaming around deep nullsec and going everywhere, so no one sov can dominate it. Occasionally have it poke into fringe lowsec, just to give a tease.
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-12-17 00:25:00 UTC
Someone else suggested this last month & was laughed at by literally everybody.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Agromos nulKaedi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-17 00:27:10 UTC
I note that every single suggestion of absolutely anything gets laughed at. I'm not bothered.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2012-12-17 00:31:19 UTC
That 'warp core stab projection' might actually make it work. That solves the issue of police being tankable. It would have to override even HIC's. Since the second police are tankable, people will just make sure they can tank them before ganking people. And if HIC's aren't overriden, people will use those with a script for the infinipoint.
You will still get people using Alpha gangs with no risk, since if you alpha them, the police show up and it's all over, then you just tank the police if they even bother shooting at you. So not sure how you solve the fact an alpha gang is at no risk from the police, so can run around as if it was low sec.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#5 - 2012-12-17 00:52:02 UTC
It's amazing how people still think CCP doesn't have enough expansion ideas.

But obviously CCP simply doesn't have enough resources to develop two games at once (Dust + EVE). So if you want anything like actual EVE content expansion in next 18 months (Dust release + PC version release) - purchase PS3 and get into Dust beta.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#6 - 2012-12-17 00:56:16 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Someone else suggested this last month & was laughed at by literally everybody.


Well, not quite everybody. Lol

The idea has merit, though maybe not as suggested in either post. I haven't read this one and I believe I only really skimmed that one.

Basically, it's good if you keep it simple: Make Highsec 0.7-1.0, Middlesec, (for lack of a better term), 0.4-0.6, and Lowsec 0.1-0.3. Null is of course Null.

Change things up a bit so between High and Low is more like Low, and Low moves towards Null rules. Could be alright.

Very basic.. Blink
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#7 - 2012-12-17 01:00:02 UTC
Agromos nulKaedi wrote:

As it is, lowsec is a mythical instant death land and it's as hard to convince people there's isk there as it is to convince a miner that they aren't joining the ranks of the ultra-wealthy, because people assume that only hardened PVPers go there.


Why should the game be trivialized to adapt to this people and not this people adapt to the game, as all other players do?


Low sec is already pretty safe, only requires a bit more attention, but Life in low sec is perfectly viable for lonely wolf ad for non-PvP groups. And with the new cheap ninja-mining frigates really miners have no more excuses.

But all this is pointless. People unable to accept even only the simple chance to get in danger will never accept it, no matter how much you reduce it. They simply cannot deal with the IDEA of "risk" (btw risk in a game) and the idea of non-consensual interaction.

Doesnt matter if this risk is a 1% or 0,1% or 0,001%. They will never accept the idea of it.

High, low and null are far too safe actually. If osmenting have to be done is to scale up the risks for all the areas.



Agromos nulKaedi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-17 01:01:55 UTC
I'm not sure how to solve alpha problems, or even if it should be solved. I'd hope that the threat of being chased by pvpers would tone down some of them.

The point is to make a region that is more forgiving and welcoming than "welcome to low sec, eat monster-under-the-bed gate camp" without being Disneyland. Right now, highsec is pretty Disneyland, and going from high to low takes a lot of skills that people aren't being taught. The step is big enough that people are scared of it, and as a result there is no incentive for them to learn those skills.

the truely risk averse won't go anywhere risky, and the risk-takers will dive right in, but I think that there are quite a few people who are somewhere between the two and who just aren't quite comfortable making the jump all the way to low in one step.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#9 - 2012-12-17 01:12:25 UTC
Maybe if middlesec was moved more towards solo pvp as opposed to small gang with this. That's something EVE has been lacking in for awhile. Could be a pain to implement though, although the new Crimewatch might make it more available than it was.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#10 - 2012-12-17 01:25:53 UTC
Agromos nulKaedi wrote:


The point is to make a region that is more forgiving and welcoming than "welcome to low sec, eat monster-under-the-bed gate camp" without being Disneyland. Right now, highsec is pretty Disneyland, and going from high to low takes a lot of skills that people aren't being taught. The step is big enough that people are scared of it, and as a result there is no incentive for them to learn those skills.


Excuse me but where is this high-low sec huge gap and all these moes skills needed? I really don't see it. I could understand if you say the jump to null sec or to wormhole, cause to settle there you have really some specific logistic problem. But high/low sec, in what is this huge difference?

My hauler alt daily travels from FW systems to Rens and back to buy/sell stuff. My main concern in this is the high sec part of the travel, the Rens undock and so on. But when I finally jump in low sec I'm kinda like "oh finally at home, i can relax now". Cause I know the local, no crowd, I know who is out chasing me, and who is minding his business, I know where usually gate camps are, I've my safe spots/navigation BM and so on.


Agromos nulKaedi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-17 01:27:01 UTC
I think FW was an attempt to do that. This is different..
Right now, from "safe" to "scary" seems to be
1.0-0.5.....................................0.4-0.1..sov..npc-null
I just want to make a sort've "gateway drug" space where people will be a bit more protected from being slaughtered by PVPers who mistake them for competent pvp pilots, for long enough that they can be exposed to the pvp concepts that they need to actually become competent pvp pilots.

As far as protecting against alpha gangs, the only idea I have is that the local police might be induced somehow to bubble the belts, so that before you can attack a miner you have to burn to them. Not the most satisfying idea i've had, though.
Agromos nulKaedi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-12-17 01:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Agromos nulKaedi
Sura Sadiva wrote:
when I finally jump in low sec I'm kinda like "oh finally at home, i can relax now". Cause I know the local, no crowd, I know who is out chasing me, and who is minding his business, I know where usually gate camps are, I've my safe spots/navigation BM and so on.

yeah, I know that lowsec isn't dangerous once you know how to set those precautions up, too. Have you ever tried asking someone who's never been there what lowsec is like though?
Highsec pilots don't know any of those things. They're alien to them. And because lowsec can have things like gatecamps and other things that are a bit traumatic to encounter the first time coming out of Disneyland highsec, highsec residents tend not to go anywhere that they might want to learn them. Thus, the "gateway drug" space so that people can get their feet wet in pew and have some interaction with people who can teach them.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#13 - 2012-12-17 01:40:50 UTC
Expanding on my earlier thought:

0.1 ~ Allow Bombs. Create pockets of 0.1 in primary systems in NPC Null Space belonging to entities like ORE, SOE, and the Thukker Tribe

0.2 - 0.4 ~ Standard Lowsec

0.5 - 0.6 ~ Middle Security. Considered Highsec in most respects, but with the allowance to create Limited Engagements between players. Player assisting either side will still get a Suspect flag, and those attacking either side while not part of the limited engagement will gain Criminal flags.

0.7 - 1.0 Normal Highsec.

..and we have available solo PvP, bombing without bubbles in lowest security lowsec, and the addition of lowsec pockets in NPC Null under the sovereignity of 'reputable' Corporations.

Obviously Pirate NPC Null would remain as normal as they wouldn't want that sort of thing. Might want to include the addidtion of some long jump Jumpgates to the Lowsec systems in ORE and SOE space to shorten the trip from those deep Null territories to Highsec.

zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#14 - 2012-12-17 02:08:47 UTC
Agromos nulKaedi wrote:

Highsec pilots don't know any of those things. They're alien to them. And because lowsec can have things like gatecamps and other things that are a bit traumatic to encounter the first time coming out of Disneyland highsec, highsec residents tend not to go anywhere that they might want to learn them.


Ok, fair enough. Then let's make high-sec less Disneyland instead of expanding it.
However is not about learning PvP, the only thing to learn is to deal with some loss. And this can be learned only in the hard way, several generations of EvE players grown so.

But still I don't see the gap hgh-low sec that big to justify a soften area. It's already a smoothed degree.

Agromos nulKaedi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-12-17 04:35:00 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Ok, fair enough. Then let's make high-sec less Disneyland instead of expanding it.
However is not about learning PvP, the only thing to learn is to deal with some loss. And this can be learned only in the hard way, several generations of EvE players grown so.
But still I don't see the gap hgh-low sec that big to justify a soften area. It's already a smoothed degree.

Well you will note that in the idea as I put it out, the risk averse highsec population does not come out on top in any way. The area which contains PvP and risk expands and eats some of their highsec, They lose access to some of their top end resources. In return, they get an area which is less intimidating, less dangerous, and less rewarding than the present low sec, but which is a nice compromise space that people who are contemplating increasing their tolerance to risk can feel a bit more safe entering and exploring and yes, having their ships exploded out from under them. It's "lowsec-lite", but it's nowhere near as safe as high-sec. They can get away with not knowing how to bookmark correctly, they can get away with a certain level of the flakiness that is the norm in highsec, but to succeed in that space they'll want to learn it. Not knowing these things will still punish them, but in ways that they can recover from a bit more gracefully and learn from.
And in learning, they will learn what they need to venture out into lowsec or 0.0 without quivering in a cold sweat not because they fear losing their ship, but because they feel like they have no control over whether they will lose their ship.
milllo
Billy and the Boingers
#16 - 2012-12-17 05:13:44 UTC
Why reduce hisec space?

Make your changes but have 0.3-0.4 med sec etc and leave hisec as it is. You might have a shot at making something then.

All you are doing with your proposal is expanding lowsec. There is tons of lowsec already.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#17 - 2012-12-17 07:16:17 UTC
I wouldn't want 0.4 to have CONCORD on gates or stations. Gates and stations are where fights happen. Not just camps and ganks, but fights. CONCORD there would be bad for pvp. Most gates into lowsec don't have camps on them and are easy to scout yourself into with a pod anyway.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#18 - 2012-12-17 08:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Someone else suggested this last month & was laughed at by literally everybody.


That suggestion was mine and only people that laughted at that, was goons + l33t lowsec piwates. Same people, whos constantly claims that their whine is not about more targets in low/null, but ironicaly, are againist anything that could bring more players to low/null

my suggestions were for example:

0.1-0.3- no security loss if attacked at belts, plexes, deadspaces etc. (sec loss at gates, stations)
0.4-0.6 - concord on gates/staions, no concord spawns at belts/plexes/deaadspaces. players below sec status -5.0 are no longer attacked by NPC police but they are free to shoot by anyone...
0.7-1.0 - hisec as it is now


And your response? (globaly) "that would kill gatecamps - thus less PvP"
Zack Korth
Livid CO.
#19 - 2012-12-17 09:10:43 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
It's amazing how people still think CCP doesn't have enough expansion ideas.

But obviously CCP simply doesn't have enough resources to develop two games at once (Dust + EVE). So if you want anything like actual EVE content expansion in next 18 months (Dust release + PC version release) - purchase PS3 and get into Dust beta.


cross platform is lame, I own a pc because i do not want to play console games, why should I be stuck with whatever the dev decides to send along on the disc, oh plus some DLC which really should be a part of the game before its released, the cost of most games considering that formula these days is 85-100+ dollars for a full game experience, when most games aren't worth 15, I can honestly say that the last console game, that was worth the money IMO was final fantasy 7, and that was what, 15 years ago now?

i realize dust is free, i am not talking about dust, i am talking about why I despise consoles, they were bad before DLC.. now... its no wonder theres no ps4 or 360gamebox ultra.. whats the point, i'll **** on this napkin, take a picture of it, poster it up in one of the maps on our P.O.S. game and charge 20 dollars for OMFG NEW CONTENT

uhhhhhhh, no.
CCP Falcon
#20 - 2012-12-17 09:23:27 UTC
Moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

12Next page