Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The one thing caldari cruisers do, such as the Tengu, is put dps downfield. Anytime you start fitting one out for pvp you start loosing tank. Once you fit prop mods, scrams, etc, you loose tank. Need I remind you that none of the other empires have this problem. In the end, all you are doing is taking away the ONE THING caldari cruisers do well.

They're not designed to brawl like other cruisers, they run as fire support. So thanks again CCP for looking at the big picture, and paying attention to the mechanics you've designed.

Don't be so oblivious....

The missile changes are by far for the good... Tengu's will still be extremely viable PvP ships, and now TC's and TE's boost all missiles!!

All shield ships sacrifice some tank when fitting EWAR, but they get extra damage and increased speed thanks to their lows.
Likewise, all amor ships sacrifice damage and speed when fitting tank, but get extra EWAR thanks to their mids.

Nothing about that scenario is changing....

When fitting for PvP, there are typically 2 modules that are ubiquitously needed:
A.) A prop mod.
B.) A tackle mod.

When tanking a ship for PvP, there is typically one module that is ubiquitously used: A DCU.

This is how it is now, this is how it will be in the future... and your entire diatribe on shield vs armor and caldari tanking is completely irrelevant to this.

Amror ships sacrifice speed for tank:
Armor plates increase your align times and decrease your speed... making you slower...
Armor rigs decrease your speed, making you slower....
Propulsion upgrades like nanofibers and overdrives compete for low slot which are used for armor tanking...

Armor tanks sacrifice dps for tank:
Armor tanks require significantly more PG, which often requires reducing the size of your guns, and hence your dps.
Weapon damage modules compete for low slots which are used for armor tanking...

In contrast, shield modules and rigs don't come with speed/agility penalties. They don't compete for lowslots, which can then be filled with damage and propulsion upgrade modules, and they are typically aren't PG limited, meaning fitting weapons is easier.

And none of this is changing with retribution. Retribution is IMPROVING missiles, by taking away t2 ammo penalties, by allowing TE's and TC's to improve missile damage, and by allowing all missiles skills (like guided missile precision) to benefit all missile weapons (like torpedoes and Heavy Assault missiles). Sure, you lose some range on your heavy missiles, but you have to be ignorant to think that the upcoming changes are overall bad for missile users....

Shield tanked ships sacrifice the utility in the midslots for their tank unlike armor tanked ships. The upside to that is they use their lows to increase their damage.

Also, want to point out that for Retribution the TC and TE changes have been taken out

Once the changes are in place I believe people will cry about how unfair the Caldari suddenly became.

Tengus will lose raw DPS, however the ability to control more missile explosion velocity far outweighs the 10% damage nerf. Faster explosions means less speed tanking working and smaller explosion radius means even more overwhelming damage is actually applied to ships with smaller signature radius.

Skills applied like Gizznitt mentioned also make the Tengu even more powerful. HAM's with extended ranges, reduced explosion radius and faster explosions? Yes please!

Uncomprehending whine is what the internet is all about, thanks for keeping the tradition alive.


Im not entirely sure how you tunnel-vision past how heavy missles eclipse all other medium long range weapons in performance and even compete with short range weapons (including HAMs, except with several fold greater range), but I commend the hard work and dedication it must've taken.

Look! it's JADP...

Do you even realise your current overheated faction fitted T2 ammo Tengu spiting 850dps will become the next OMGPWZORMOBILE overheated faction fitted Tengu well above 1K dps with HAM's and for a very decent distance, profit from all skills that right now don't affect them etc?

Clearly, most of you people either don't understand how missiles work, haven't read main topic even if you don't need to know all numbers in detail, or never used them correctly.
HM's need some nerf (ot exactly like the first one), this is good for Caldari that will now have by far one of the most interesting sub capital ships lineup:

-Drake: ship bonus changes will make it definitively deadlier than ever
-Cerberus: this one is the ship that will profit the most from short range missiles changes and bonus, lacks some tank but welp
-Tengu: one needs to remember short range missiles changes, skills affecting them and expected ship bonus§? -hum? really?

This makes already 3 ships, 2 already very common, still using missiles that will be wanted unless you don't understand how missiles operate and are afraid of undock with.

Ferox, Moa, Eagle and all other I'm forgetting are getting mid/low slots changes, hybrids bonus, fittings adjustments and will become interesting on top of these already common ships.
Making missiles a little bit like "guns" for ex Long Range system: HM's with 2 T2 ammo versions -1 LR and one SR
This is good.

Cost is never a good balance point. it just further opens the gap between the haves (since they have the OP toys, they can earn to buy more) and the have nots (since they keep loosing, they can't afford new OP toys).
CCP also addressed exactly why they dropped heavy missiles DPS rather than raising everything else in the game substantially. In that they want to avoid mass power creep.
Also note that for PvP, the Heavy missile change has some up sides. You have SIGNIFICANT increases in missile velocity, meaning you get Damage on Target much faster, and your actual range is much closer to your theoretical range even if they try running away from you. And the removal of the T2 Missiles penelties means that they are effective options as well now. So it's not really a 'Nerf' as much as a change and reshuffle.

i dont think its a nerf much.. prenerf dps/range with HMs 730/125km. postnerf dps/range 675(ish) @ 100km. not a big differance.

since the "nerf" i moved to HAMs with the lowered PG requirment they fit like a dream and hit smaller targets much easier then HM's and iv been enjoying useing HAMs in missions with my tengu with the now chase cam.

only think i had to do was upgrade to a pricer AB (or get a PDU for MWD) and that was that basically tho i DID want to take the HARDWIRES for explosion velocity and radious. then the typical ROF and DMG per mission hardwires.

so im just gonna out and say what most others want to say.. STOP WHINEING!!.. i was dead set against the nerfs since day 1 but post nerf.. im actually enjoying missles more.

ps. as for range nerf.. wait till the trackign computer thingy comes for missles.. or see what ccp does about it