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Warfare & Tactics

 
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TheMittani.com Gal/Cal FW update

First post
Author
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#61 - 2012-12-13 23:46:53 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
Does the article say anything more than one side got handed Tier 4 then FW was changed so that offensive plexing was hard but defensive plexing was real easy so nothing happened until Retribution which was so farmer friendly that it is back to farmville again.

Because that is really what is happening. Anyone can say whatever they want (it's fun to troll!) but both Gallente and Caldari pvp segments of the militia pale in comparison to the farmer segment. When old FW was in full effect both Caldari and Gallente could not hold onto systems because of farmers and it is back to that.

It will be interesting to see what happens next. My gallente friends are a bit worried that fights will start to dry up if caldari hit t1 because they won't have isk to use for whelp fleets and they won't fight for plex since they are meaningless at t1 or caldari corps will just bail. Kind of reminds me of 0.0 sov wars, a lot of territory changes hands in a short period of time but no real epic fights to talk about. I thought we were trying to get away from that...

Really, I needed to establish a base line. I stated what was happening right now. In the past the coverage of the Gal/Cal side of the war has been nearly non-existent. My original piece was less 'Gallente is winning' focused, but after this last week, it was the conclusion I had to draw.
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
#62 - 2012-12-13 23:56:51 UTC
Aramu5 wrote:
Holy Sh*t Kraken's on tv!!!!!!!!

In all seriousness gents, lets not try and escalate the drama over an internet spaceship game shall we? :P

[...]

Its been a real pleasure fighting with / against you fellas. You gave us a hell of a show.

We'll miss you allot.

Fly Dangerously,

Aram


+1 and a change of opinion towards you. Good luck out there.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.

Mithril Ryder
Genstar Inc
#63 - 2012-12-14 00:48:45 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
chatgris wrote:

Except I've seen Damar say he hates factional warfare and isn't playing for fun - if this is true, then maybe he's staying out of some sense of loyalty, and his behaviour over the years is possibly some kind of virtual stress induced mental breakdown?

I mean, US soldiers get this, and they are a volunteer army. It's not a completely implausible explanation.

Then again, I Am Not A Psychologist, but I thought the point that he doesn't actually seem to play for fun may be relevant since you do seem to know what you are talking about.


For the sake of my own mental health, I have avoided looking too deeply into the phenomenon of Damar Rocarion. There are pathos at work here, the investigation of which will lead one down a dark and uncertain path.

Better to accept that Damar exists, that the yawning chasm of the universe is vast enough to produce such things, and that, at any given time, Damar is orbiting a button somewhere.


QFT
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#64 - 2012-12-14 01:43:29 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Soulless Brutor wrote:
Have you even looked at the warzone, gallente out number caldari more then 2:1.

That's because Gallente corporations and alliances tend to stay in FW whereas Caldari use FW as a stepping stone to 0.0 boredom. I'm sure you know of a few corporations and alliances that have bailed for "greener" pastures. See ya.



See this all the time. Then they get bored in null after a few weeks and lose 50% of their members.
Hoping a lot more Kraken dudes drop corp/alliance to stay in FW.






Don't wanna leave fw ??
Apply to ASIO. or CERBY today.

Aramu5
League of Angered Gentlemen
#65 - 2012-12-14 02:55:15 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Soulless Brutor wrote:
Have you even looked at the warzone, gallente out number caldari more then 2:1.

That's because Gallente corporations and alliances tend to stay in FW whereas Caldari use FW as a stepping stone to 0.0 boredom. I'm sure you know of a few corporations and alliances that have bailed for "greener" pastures. See ya.



See this all the time. Then they get bored in null after a few weeks and lose 50% of their members.
Hoping a lot more Kraken dudes drop corp/alliance to stay in FW.






Don't wanna leave fw ??
Apply to ASIO. or CERBY today.




No way cerby is coming back?? That will be interesting to see how things turn out.

Ill reference my guys towards your way if they get bored in null.

Take care of soul-on-ice for me :P He's an excellent pilot.

Good luck to you all o/
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#66 - 2012-12-14 05:44:19 UTC
Aramu5 wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Soulless Brutor wrote:
Have you even looked at the warzone, gallente out number caldari more then 2:1.

That's because Gallente corporations and alliances tend to stay in FW whereas Caldari use FW as a stepping stone to 0.0 boredom. I'm sure you know of a few corporations and alliances that have bailed for "greener" pastures. See ya.



See this all the time. Then they get bored in null after a few weeks and lose 50% of their members.
Hoping a lot more Kraken dudes drop corp/alliance to stay in FW.






Don't wanna leave fw ??
Apply to ASIO. or CERBY today.




No way cerby is coming back?? That will be interesting to see how things turn out.

Ill reference my guys towards your way if they get bored in null.

Take care of soul-on-ice for me :P He's an excellent pilot.

Good luck to you all o/



Soul-on-ice is a fkn killing machine.

He is spreading frog guts all over the universe. o/
Nahzgul
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#67 - 2012-12-14 08:38:31 UTC
I remember a few months ago things were very different. Getting a fight was difficult because most Gallente forces were, if not out manned, out classed by more organized fleets. This is, in part, why Caldari are not as close knit as Gallente. To consistently get fights you must have smaller fleets than your opponent. A few weeks ago is a perfect example, there was a 17 man Kraken fleet and a 9 man HE fleet who do you think the eve radio fleet engaged?

Most corps/alliances come to FW because it allows you to have your own identity while being part of something larger, which other arenas in eve don’t necessarily allow. Gallente are an exception and are generally closer than other militias, the cause of which out dates my time in FW. I see a lot of talk about numbers in this post and I will pose the same question we ask ourselves almost every night lately: Where are all those dudes that are in militia chat? We hardly see them in low sec.

When FW first got changed you had a lot of interest from corps and alliances, HE included. Now, with the swing of the pendulum, many of those new entities are leaving because they don’t have much vested interest in it. This isn’t directed at Kraken. just a generalization of how I see things unfolding currently. The NATZ is most affected by this and is where I see most of the complaining, from both sides, coming from. The EUTZ, while not as close as Gallente, are veterans of FW and from that time together are a closer group that were quite effective in the weeks leading up to the last patch capturing a system nearly by themselves.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-12-14 09:21:18 UTC
One thing I missed: do those numbers include membership in the NPC FW corps? Because to look at the potential for organized operations, you sort of need to subtract those numbers.

Also, it isn't just Caldari vs. Gallente in Black Rise. There's also Caldari vs. pirates (Snuff Box, Stealth Wear, and others). I can't speak as to whether there's significant Gallente vs. pirates action, but the pirates are a major adversary to the Caldari militia, especially since they routinely have Titan support. (For my own part, whenever I've been involved in an op that involved Titan support or capitals, the hot-drop has always, always been hostile. I have never seen a friendly hot-drop since I joined FW, and I've been in since before the faucet opened with Inferno.)

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

SAJUK NIGARRA
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-12-14 09:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SAJUK NIGARRA
I'll try and explain why Gallente are closer than other militias. First cause is pretty obvious. A fair few of the pilots are around sice FW was introduced, or soon after. We don't always see eye to eye, we form pacts, we implode in to a sea of forum drama, we form alliances, we break in to a sea of forum drama, but at the end of the day the trust and respect generated by 3-4 years of flying together are still there. How same group of ppl managed to stick to FW for 3-4 years, that's another question and prolly has different answers if you ask different people.

As for beeing outnumbered, if it is, as you present it, a matter of choice, fair nuff, you choose to get more fights by beeing outnumbered, no problem. However I see people like Pred complaining about beeing outnumbered 2:1 . If that is or is not reality is actually pretty irrelevant. I stated often on these forums and I'll state it again, contrary to what some ppl belive, Eve is in fact an MMO not a fancy version of Space Invaders (arcade spaceship shooter). The mechanic where people have to constitute in groups in order to win is intended, not some side effect. Working to aquire assets, manpower and establish relationships is at least as important as what you do on grid. So long story short, if you feel you are outnumbered, better start recruiting or looking for blues. Or get some assets that can be used as force multipliers.

Last but not least, the issue of the ninja patch. Honestly, when I saw the patch notes that day, I thought we were uterrly screwed. While when the patch hit most systems were gallente, they were also for the vast majority (maybe 60 of them ?) in a vulnerable status. A fleet of 40 blaster nagas split in 2 groups plus 5 dreads to do the backwater systems would've flipped 3 systems every 5 minutes (let's say every 10 minutes with moving and such) . That would mean 18 systems/hr. In 3 hours you could have flipped everything, maybe except 2-3 systems that would have been deplexed in that time. CCP didn't screw you over, it gave you a great chance, but the lack of reaction was fatal. While our guys were spamming all comms and channels for numbers to deplex, your guys were prolly cursing in Iceland's direction, not realising that 3-4 hrs of effort would have insured them total domination of the occupancy war for the forseeable future.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-12-14 09:52:38 UTC
SAJUK NIGARRA wrote:
I'll try and explain why Gallente are closer than other militias. First cause is pretty obvious. A fair few of the pilots are around sice FW was introduced, or soon after. We don't always see eye to eye, we form pacts, we implode in to a sea of forum drama, we form alliances, we break in to a sea of forum drama, but at the end of the day the trust and respect generated by 3-4 years of flying together are still there. How same group of ppl managed to stick to FW for 3-4 years, that's another question and prolly has different answers if you ask different people.

As for beeing outnumbered, if it is, as you present it, a matter of choice, fair nuff, you choose to get more fights by beeing outnumbered, no problem. However I see people like Pred complaining about beeing outnumbered 2:1 . If that is or is not reality is actually pretty irrelevant. I stated often on these forums and I'll state it again, contrary to what some ppl belive, Eve is in fact an MMO not a fancy version of Space Invaders (arcade spaceship shooter). The mechanic where people have to constitute in groups in order to win is intended, not some side effect. Working to aquire assets, manpower and establish relationships is at least as important as what you do on grid. So long story short, if you feel you are outnumbered, better start recruiting or looking for blues. Or get some assets that can be used as force multipliers.

Last but not least, the issue of the ninja patch. Honestly, when I saw the patch notes that day, I thought we were uterrly screwed. While when the patch hit most systems were gallente, they were also for the vast majority (maybe 60 of them ?) in a vulnerable status. A fleet of 40 blaster nagas split in 2 groups plus 5 dreads to do the backwater systems would've flipped 3 systems every 5 minutes (let's say every 10 minutes with moving and such) . That would mean 18 systems/hr. In 3 hours you could have flipped everything, maybe except 2-3 systems that would have been deplexed in that time. CCP didn't screw you over, it gave you a great chance, but the lack of reaction was fatal. While our guys were spamming all comms and channels for numbers to deplex, your guys were prolly cursing in Iceland's direction, not realising that 3-4 hrs of effort would have insured them total domination of the occupancy war for the forseeable future.


Actually, I was in the bunker-buster fleets within hours after the notice of the patch. The announcement hit while most of EUTZ was at work, and we had at least one FC who carbonized his brain after about 18 hours straight, trying to manage the bunker busters while simultaneously dodging pirate fleets that were looking for a juicy target to rip to pieces. Decontesting could be done by frigates spread to the wind, especially when the vulnerability-buffer was taken away the next day - flipping systems took concentrated high-damage fleets, and we were bleeding DPS ships regularly as the pirates zeroed in on us.

It was basically a zero-notice, mid-week call to arms, with no time to get organized, and the vast majority of the EUTZ regulars offline.

(And a day or two later, with a bunch of systems still vulnerable, someone was calling for a fleet to go brawling off who knows where, and yes, I raged at that, but I'm part of a small corp in an alliance that's heavily NATZ, so we couldn't form an effective bunker-buster fleet on our own hook...)

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-12-14 09:57:40 UTC
Just to reiterate: any analysis of the Black Rise war zone that doesn't account for the local nullsec-caliber pirate fleets with Titan support is missing a major part of the big picture.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#72 - 2012-12-14 13:45:19 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Just to reiterate: any analysis of the Black Rise war zone that doesn't account for the local nullsec-caliber pirate fleets with Titan support is missing a major part of the big picture.


They sort of cancel out since there are no current blues that i know of between gallente and local piwates. Actually, thats not exactly true, dnd are blue with fate. But fate generally attack all other gallente and i assume caldari.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-12-14 15:30:00 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Just to reiterate: any analysis of the Black Rise war zone that doesn't account for the local nullsec-caliber pirate fleets with Titan support is missing a major part of the big picture.


They sort of cancel out since there are no current blues that i know of between gallente and local piwates. Actually, thats not exactly true, dnd are blue with fate. But fate generally attack all other gallente and i assume caldari.


OK, maybe the big ones (around Black Rise, we're talking outfits like Stealth Wear, Snuff Box, Balkan Express, etc.) are equal-opportunity brawlers, but if they consistently roll out in FW home systems with faction-battleship fleets, capital ships, and Titans on call, then they either constitute a third side in the war in their own right, or one <327K censored by CONCORD> of a course hazard...

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#74 - 2012-12-14 19:37:41 UTC
Nahzgul wrote:
I remember a few months ago things were very different. Getting a fight was difficult because most Gallente forces were, if not out manned, out classed by more organized fleets. This is, in part, why Caldari are not as close knit as Gallente. To consistently get fights you must have smaller fleets than your opponent. A few weeks ago is a perfect example, there was a 17 man Kraken fleet and a 9 man HE fleet who do you think the eve radio fleet engaged?
. . .
When FW first got changed you had a lot of interest from corps and alliances, HE included. Now, with the swing of the pendulum, many of those new entities are leaving because they don’t have much vested interest in it. This isn’t directed at Kraken. just a generalization of how I see things unfolding currently. The NATZ is most affected by this and is where I see most of the complaining, from both sides, coming from. The EUTZ, while not as close as Gallente, are veterans of FW and from that time together are a closer group that were quite effective in the weeks leading up to the last patch capturing a system nearly by themselves.

I'm baffled why you guys keep trying to portray Gallente mil as some kind of blobbing entity that is ruling the roost. The only time we can really blob is Friday nights with the eve radio roams. Half the time with that we in our usual frigate and dessy swarms. That you choose to engage us in heavier stuff is great, props for doing so. On most nights though it is HE out in BC with logi and/or ewar group of 15-30. That same size is pretty much what we roll in.

You also lump us in together. Most of the time there is a disconnect between the older crowd like DnD and Qcats and the younger crowd of Villore Accords and other gal mil entities. We will cooperate on important objectives but that is not a nightly occurance. If you feel some blobbing conspiracy coming from gal mil you have only yourselves to blame. Frankly, your participation sucks. You have more characters in Cal Mil. That most of them are worthless farmer alts is your problem to solve.

If you feel sometimes sandwiched between a DnD + Qcat contingent and a noobier Gal Mil contingent recognize it is not a crafted sandwich most of the time. There is as I said rarely nightly coordination. Hell, Qcats went their own way because they knew you guys would not fight unless you perceived a numerical superiority that you thought you could make use of.

Basically everyone looks for numerical superiority to engage with. For you guys to always whine in local about Gal blobbing is disengenuous. Both sides will do it when they can. It's so funny to have some gal ganked on a gate or in plex by your organized HE gang then when the organized response in Nenna manages to awaken from it's slumber and may in fact be slightly larger you run and cry blob (totally ignoring the gank that you just enjoyed was it's own blobing).

If you can outnumber the other guy why not do so. Stop complaining about what both of us do. Start shaming your worthless farmers. Start simply enjoying the fights and not complaining about the reaction to your presence. I'm so happy every time I see you guys because we have had some great and pretty well even fights with you. But then if you lose you complain in local that you were blobbed counting everyone in nenna local and ignoring the fact that a good number of those were sitting in station afk or busy with other **** in game or rl, or may have been in a totally separate fleet on separate comms. We are not a monolith just as you are not one either.

SAJUK NIGARRA wrote:
Last but not least, the issue of the ninja patch. Honestly, when I saw the patch notes that day, I thought we were uterrly screwed. While when the patch hit most systems were gallente, they were also for the vast majority (maybe 60 of them ?) in a vulnerable status. A fleet of 40 blaster nagas split in 2 groups plus 5 dreads to do the backwater systems would've flipped 3 systems every 5 minutes (let's say every 10 minutes with moving and such) . That would mean 18 systems/hr. In 3 hours you could have flipped everything, maybe except 2-3 systems that would have been deplexed in that time. CCP didn't screw you over, it gave you a great chance, but the lack of reaction was fatal. While our guys were spamming all comms and channels for numbers to deplex, your guys were prolly cursing in Iceland's direction, not realising that 3-4 hrs of effort would have insured them total domination of the occupancy war for the forseeable future.


This! There were 2 - 4 days where if Cal Mil had reacted the way we've reacted to bunker bust push time in the past they could have flipped dozens of systems before we were able to dplex the grossly over plexed systems that were vulnerable under the old system. Instead Cal Mil listened to Damar's whine that it was so unfair and did not see the incredible opportunity it presented and react accordingly. The regions would have looked so different had you gone a bunker binge. Twice I can recall wiping myself out over a few days to bust bunkers for the lp cash in under the now old system. It was unpleasant either way but we did it. Cal mil needed to react with a push. They didn't and that's why things look the way they look now. Damar's conspiracy delusions got you ******.

As for pirate interference, we both have to deal with it. They are looking for an easy fight. They spot a kichen sink dps bunker bust fleet and start salivating with an organized gang built to kill that. You either accept that you may have to run or you put together your own organized fleet to defend yourself as you bunker bust. Most of the pirate entitites are equal opportunity gankers. I really do not perceive them as a whole giving a **** which one of us controls a system. Cal mil could have gone on a bunker binge, but failed to step up

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#75 - 2012-12-14 21:39:00 UTC
I assumed as much. I mostly said that to prevent any further landslide of that train of thought.
cearaen
Plus 10 NV
#76 - 2012-12-14 21:44:51 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Remember a few months ago when the Caldari had the upper hand?

The Gallente were all raging about how broken FW was and putting alts in the Calmil to hasten the downfall of FWarmville. Wait, that's not right...



That was when the economic sytem had some balance, with all militias except amarr, hitting tier 5 cashouts. Now it is set up to be permanently lopsided and it has been ever since.

Nahzgul
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#77 - 2012-12-15 00:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nahzgul
Deacon Abox wrote:
I'm baffled why you guys keep trying to portray Gallente mil as some kind of blobbing entity that is ruling the roost. The only time we can really blob is Friday nights with the eve radio roams. Half the time with that we in our usual frigate and dessy swarms. That you choose to engage us in heavier stuff is great, props for doing so. On most nights though it is HE out in BC with logi and/or ewar group of 15-30. That same size is pretty much what we roll in.




Am I calling you blobbers or complaining anywhere in my post? You seem to have approached my post with a certain frame of mind that I can only be complaining about you blobbing. I was just attempting to give my side of whats going on currently.
Mich Farmer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-12-15 08:04:44 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
I assumed as much. I mostly said that to prevent any further landslide of that train of thought.


Of course Ankh (from CSM and Gal militia) was happy enough to dance on my brothers grave and wished I would join him there with all necessary haste so she could get back to plexing. Didnt see your militia raise much objections to those comments either.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#79 - 2012-12-15 17:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Ashterothi wrote:
Deacon Abox wrote:

After all, forums are just another warfront as has been proven with your constant pr-campaign since 2009 labeling all Caldari as exploiters and me as a guy who likes to lurk near elementary schools while driving an unmarked, windowless van.


Straight I am going to go ahead and say that, at least today, this is in poor taste.

What? Except that is not my quote. Ashterothi, please don't make such a harmful quoting mistake. It's bad enough that people already know I'm creepy randy for about every female toon on the site.P (none of which are minors)

That is Mitch being michdamar mental case . .

By the way Mitch, I at least never thought to lable you that way. Other rather sad conglomerates of mental disease and sad circumstances, maybe. But thanks for the portrait of you. And I do wish you well in finding help.Straight

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

CCP Falcon
#80 - 2012-12-15 17:34:59 UTC

This thread has clearly degenerated into personal attacks, flaming and trolling.

As such, it's locked.

Don't re-open this topic if you can't discuss it in a civil manner, within the bounds of the forum rules.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3