These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Neural Re-map (Noob help Needed!)
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vervz
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-12-14 12:24:39 UTC
This is an old character but I haven't got more than three months experienced under my belt, I saw the Neural re-map thread on the general discussion and realise I dont have a clue what they can achieve.

I have a few questions;

What is a recent 0.0 noob todo? Is it better that I stick with them pretty much balanced?

I'm trying to fit a fast tackle ship for fleet PVP until I have skills to fly something bigger, will it be worth me re-mapping at all?

What are the big pro's and cons? Any big NO, NO's?

Do you receive more "neural points" at all?

I would look into this more myself, but im currently sat at work with not alot on so the minds wondering, plus you guys seem to know what you are talking about!.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#2 - 2012-12-14 12:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Vervz wrote:
This is an old character but I haven't got more than three months experienced under my belt, I saw the Neural re-map thread on the general discussion and realise I dont have a clue what they can achieve.

I have a few questions;

What is a recent 0.0 noob todo? Is it better that I stick with them pretty much balanced?

I'm trying to fit a fast tackle ship for fleet PVP until I have skills to fly something bigger, will it be worth me re-mapping at all?

What are the big pro's and cons? Any big NO, NO's?

Do you receive more "neural points" at all?

I would look into this more myself, but im currently sat at work with not alot on so the minds wondering, plus you guys seem to know what you are talking about!.


The amount of points in your different attributes (perception, willpower, etc) affects your training time for different skills. When you remap, you are taking points from one attribute and assigning them to another. The whole idea is that you select a skillset that needs the same attributes (for example, all of the gunnery skills and all of the ship class skills use perception and willpower), remap to max out that skillset, and spend a year or so training that skillset at an optimal rate.

You initially get one remap and two bonus remaps. It takes 12 months for you to "earn" another remap. Therefore you can remap a couple times within a year thanks to the bonuses, but choose your remaps wisely. Remember that if you "max out" your learning ability for certain skills, you are jeapordizing your learning ability for other skills and if you run out of remaps before you want to switch training, your new skill category will have to wait until your year is up - or you'll have to train at a sub-optimal rate.

To know which attributes require what skills, you "show info" on any skillbook and it will tell you.

It's up to you to organize your training.

Remaps are especially important in 0.0 because we tend to PvP a lot and die a lot and especially get podded a lot. In high sec you only get podded if you fall asleep or lag out or are afk, so running around with a set of +5 implants is feasible. In nullsec you get podded all the time thanks to interdictors and bubbles, and running around with +5's would bankrupt you quickly. So remapping is much more important to save time.
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-14 12:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sushi Nardieu
Yeah. You get a remap every year. Use one today, then you get a new remap the same day next year.

Secondly, start joining fleets as much as possible. Get a feel for killing ships, listening to your FC and losing ships.

And finally, make sure you have a PLAN before you remap. Use a tool called EVEmon or something similar.

My suggestion? Train whatever ships your alliance/corp wants you to. It's not about subordination, it's about joining in the fun as a team and fleet. Basics include, T2 guns, tank, navigation all the stuff.

Consider command ships, Heavy Assault Cruisers, logistics V or Recon V as an ultimate goal in sub-cap pvp training. There are also T3 ships but i don't recommend that for new players.

More nimble stuff you might want to consider Assault frigates, interceptors, and interdictors.

And of course... if you're a battleship kind of guy. You're gonna need a nice isk supply for this.

Whatever you do, DO NOT remap for industry. that should be done on another character.

The Guns of Knowledge 
Merouk Baas
#4 - 2012-12-14 12:46:19 UTC
The formula for skill points is roughly this:

Skill points per minute = Primary Attribute + 0.5*Secondary Attribute

So if you have them balanced at 20 20 20 20 19 (we'll use the no implants example as most people put implants in all attributes), then your training "score" for skills looks like this:

Support skill: Int/Mem 20 + 10 = 30 points per min.
Gunnery skill: Per/Wil 20 + 10 = 30 points per min.
Ship skill: Per/Wil 20 + 10 = 30 points per min.
Navigation: Int/Per 20 + 10 = 30 points per min.

Now let's say that your ship skills are fine, you got all the ships you've wanted to fly for now, but you need some more support skills to fly them better.

If you remap to Int / Mem 27 / 21, the training looks like this:

Support skill: Int/Mem 27 + 10.5 = 37.5 points per min.
Gunnery skill: Per/Wil 17 + 8.5 = 25.5 points per min.
Shp skill: Per/Wil 17 + 8.5 = 25.5 points per min.
Navigation: Int/Per 27 + 8.5 = 35.5 points per min.

As you can see, you train support skills much faster, but are somewhat slower in the non-Int/Mem skills. The % improvement is 25%, which is significant in EVE terms. So the basic idea is you remap for Int/Mem and train support skills for a year or so, then remap to Per/Wil and train ship and gunnery skills for a year or so.

If you want to "do everything" then you'll be training support and gunnery and ship skills mixed / at any time. Compare two plans:

Equal attributes: 30 ppm for everything as above.

Maxed Int/Per (24 / 24):
Support Skill: Int/Mem 24 + 8.5 = 32.5 ppm.
Gunnery Skill: Per/Wil 24 + 8.5 = 32.5 ppm.
Ship skill: Per/Wil 24 + 8.5 = 32.5 ppm.
Navigation: Int/Per 24 + 12 = 36 ppm.
Leadership: Cha/Int 17 + 12 = 29 ppm.
Industry: Mem/Int 17 + 12 = 29 ppm.

As you can see, the best plan is to maximize what you're training, but if you want mixed training, the 24 int / 24 per plan is slightly better than the equal attributes plan.
Samantha Utama
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-12-14 13:24:41 UTC
You should download EVEMon and try to setup a long term plan. Then you can play around with the built-in remap calculator to try to min-max the training time.
Vervz
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-12-14 15:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vervz
Thanks for all your help guys, I know understand what the points in the different sections do / change. I get the jist EVEmon is my first priority, then after i've had a play I can see what kind of ships im interested in flying. 'Merouk Baas' you where on the money here with the small fast ones.

So my plan is to get my support skills and gunnery skills up this year and then I can find my groove from there. As that seems like a sensible solution! (Also as I have three re-maps this year I can pretty much do as I like!)
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#7 - 2012-12-14 17:27:11 UTC
Vervz wrote:
Thanks for all your help guys, I know understand what the points in the different sections do / change. I get the jist EVEmon is my first priority, then after i've had a play I can see what kind of ships im interested in flying. 'Merouk Baas' you where on the money here with the small fast ones.



Just note that entire categories of skills share the same attributes. So if you remapped to perception + willpower, for example, training for ALL ships would be increased. Funnily enough, those two attributes are also shared with all the gunnery and all the missile skills. So if you map to perception/willpower, you'll have a good couple year's worth of training to do without ever thinking of having to re-map.

Conversely, all the navigation skills require intelligence and perception, electronics is intelligence and memory, etc. So select a whole group you want to max your training on, re-map, and sit back for a good few months of solid training. Level 5 skills pay the bills, they say...
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#8 - 2012-12-14 17:37:28 UTC
Ill just leave this here.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2012-12-14 17:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Just to clarify these two posts…
Ptraci wrote:
You initially get one remap and two bonus remaps. It takes 12 months for you to "earn" another remap.
Sushi Nardieu wrote:
Yeah. You get a remap every year.

You don't get a remap every year. What you get is a one-year countdown every time you use a standard remap. It doesn't matter how long you wait between remaps — once you use that standard remap, it'll take you a year before you can do it again.

What so-called bonus remaps do is that they let you remap even if you're still on that timer. When you create a new character, you get one bonus remap (kind of… it's a bit in-between a normal one and a bonus version, plus a normal one, for a total of two remaps at your immediate disposal), and occasionally, CCP hands out bonus remaps for various reasons. Those are the only means of getting bonus remaps and as you can see, there is nothing you can do to influence that.

It's also worth clarifying the whole “only if you're on a timer” bit: bonus remaps are only used if you have no immediately available standard remap.

So if you have one standard remap (because you can never have more than one under normal circumstances), and two bonus remaps, what happens when you try to remap is that the standard remap is used and the year-long timer starts. If you want to remap before that time is up, you have to sacrifice one of the bonus remaps, and this does not in any way affect the remap timer. So if you remap in January, then the timer says that you'll get your normal remap back the next January. If, in June, you decide that it was a bad attribute pick and remap, you are now down to a 7-month timer, and a single remaining bonus remap. If, in November, you decide to remap again, you lose that last bonus remap and the timer is now down to 2 months. In January, the timer is up and you now have one normal remap available again. The bonus remaps are gone forever.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-12-14 18:16:14 UTC
Vervz wrote:
This is an old character but I haven't got more than three months experienced under my belt, I saw the Neural re-map thread on the general discussion and realise I dont have a clue what they can achieve.

I have a few questions;

What is a recent 0.0 noob todo? Is it better that I stick with them pretty much balanced?

I'm trying to fit a fast tackle ship for fleet PVP until I have skills to fly something bigger, will it be worth me re-mapping at all?

What are the big pro's and cons? Any big NO, NO's?

Do you receive more "neural points" at all?

I would look into this more myself, but im currently sat at work with not alot on so the minds wondering, plus you guys seem to know what you are talking about!.


My advice to you would be to wait. Hang around and find out what you like to do. By then you'll know what skills you need and be able to make a year long training plan for yourself. Once you have that plan figuring out your remap is incredibly easy. Since you're new try not to fall into the drudgery of being obsessed with killboard stats. Pvp for fun not for unimportant numbers.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133