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Really CCP? Really?

First post First post
Author
PinkKnife
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-12 19:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
I didn't know where to post it, but this seemed fitting.

"Sisters of EVE (Spouse ticket)
An amazing adventure for your significant other"

Sisters of EVE (spouse Ticket)

Look, I get that women don't belong in eve. I have a hard enough time fighting off this bullshit idea everyday, every single day, in game. I REALLY don't need you reinforcing the idea by calling a non-eve related iceland visit the "sisters of eve" "spouse ticket". Why not just call it "Stuff for girls to do because they don't play eve".

I don't know why I expected better from you, I should have known by now.

Reasons this is bad:

Non - eve related event, given female gendered name/label. This furthers the disenfranchisement of women in EVE by suggesting it is a women based activity.

Way to fix this:

Simply change it to "Non-Eve related ticket"
"An amazing adventure for your non-eve minded partner" Or similar.


Now commence with the people commenting on how it isn't a big deal, how I'm overreacting, how women don't play eve, etc etc.
Gallentian Shadow
Goldsteel Conglomerate
#2 - 2012-12-12 19:56:10 UTC
Why are you mad? If my girlfriend dragged me to Iceland to attend something that was 97% females and oriented that way, then I would be more than happy to have something to do besides that that was geared towards men.

Trekking, tasting of Icelandic Akvavit, bbq near a geyser or something. Screw what they called it.

You and me, baby, ain't nothing but capsuleers, so let's do it like they do on the Science Fiction Channel.

Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-12-12 19:59:36 UTC
OMG, the vast majority of those who have taken advantage of this over the years have thought this was one of their greatest additons to Fan Fest.

I think the OP is either a Troll or taking things far too personal.

Get over it.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#4 - 2012-12-12 20:08:18 UTC
Spouse ticket, not wife ticket.

also see:

For Fanfest 2013, friends and significant others can experience Iceland like never before, so we are offering a package of activities with a hefty pricecut to make the trip worth while for the partners of the players attending Fanfest.

Also See:

Sisters of Eve is a friendly humanitarian based NPC corp in game. theyre just giving your significant other some charity by not making them sit with you while you drool rainbows and fart glitter about some pipedream CCP is developing that will never happen anyway. Theyre just using the SoE moniker to make it pair with Eve.

But hey, this is the forums. You have every right to pull up a soap box and burn your bra at the drop of a hat.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2012-12-13 03:38:28 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Spouse ticket, not wife ticket.



Yeah. At least they are being open-minded. Smile

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#6 - 2012-12-13 08:28:56 UTC
idk it sounds pretty fun to me! i'd go. i wouldn't want to travel a quarter of the way around the world to talk about EVE anyway. i can do that while playing. lol
CCP Falcon
#7 - 2012-12-13 09:26:03 UTC

Okay.

Firstly I've cleaned up the OP. I realize you're a bit angry but don't use profanity on the forums, this is bad and can lead to you losing your posting privileges.

Secondly, the reason that the Spouse passes are called the "Sisters of EVE Program" is that it takes its name from the ingame humanitarian organization The Servant Sisters of EVE for marketing purposes, to keep things EVE themed.

If you look at the shirts that are printed for Fanfest as part of your welcome pack each year, for the last two years they're stamped with "Impetus Holoreel Convention" and the ingame year (YC113/YC114). Impetus are one of the largest entertainment corporations in New Eden, and they're included on the Fanfest branding for marketing reasons too.

This isn't a case of "lol, bring your wife because women don't play EVE", it's more of a marketing too that keeps things EVE themed and game themed. I happen to know a crapton of women who play EVE, some of whom are pretty damn good PvPers and who I wouldn't want to face off against solo. My girlfriend is included in that group of women.

So yes, it's not a case of being sexist or misogynistic, it's simply the name we chose to go with for backstory reasons in the game, to theme the spouse offers we're running.

Hope this helps you understand the angle we've been taking for the last few years. Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#8 - 2012-12-13 12:04:53 UTC
Op is wrong because of Falcon. ^ That bit up there.

I want to point out redundantly now it seems, that the Male protagonist in Burning Life was in the Sisters of Eve. Its just a word, compare with Brotherhood in its intent, the difference being that the orientation is female over male.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#9 - 2012-12-13 14:09:51 UTC
If, by some chance we get to come to Fanfest this year, my fiancée wants to go on this. She watches me play EVE but does not play it herself. It gives your spouse or significant other some adventure and sightseeing in case they don't want to go full nerd with you at most of the Fanfest functions and panels.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#10 - 2012-12-13 14:23:09 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
trolling


Wow, OP, pardon me, but you are clearly overreacting, imagining things that don't exist at all or outright plain trolling for trolling´s sake.

Wrong, so much wrong and PC talk in your post its actually offensive on some level. If you are angry at some slights you seem to perceive, I believe , in all honesty, the path you are taking it´s not the most correct one.

A CCP representative has already spoken of the reasons for said naming convention, and I endorse it fully, if I were to go to Iceland I would be thrilled for such tickets and naming to keep it EVE Related.

I´m more shocked at you reacting like that than any kind of attempted anti-feminist propaganda you want to try to smear on CCP.

I have been quite vocal against CCP over the years, but this time I must side with them

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#11 - 2012-12-13 15:42:56 UTC
all that political correctness talk drives me crazy. seriously. emancipation is not one sided. tolerance is required from both sides.

there is nothing wrong with "sisters of eve". Firstly its a well known eve term, secondly it communicates what it is. I don't think i could have picked a better word for that.

Nothing stops you from attending the fanfest if you are female (writing this makes me feel stupid since it should be obvious)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Halaxi
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#12 - 2012-12-13 17:10:18 UTC
To the OP: I believe you are reading far too much into the choice of an EvE-themed name for a bunch of activities organised for the +1's of EvE players. Either that, or you're trolling (in which case, 7/10 ). It is cooler to name it 'Sisters of EvE' than 'Thing that those people who don't play internet spaceships can go to'.

I do have a non-troll question for you.

If you are genuinly concerned about gender stereotype and related matters, why did you include the word 'pink' in your name?

End of the day, if you believe CCP is trying to do a 'Girls do not play EvE, they must instead be segregated over here', why don't you do a little bit of research and see how many female CCP staff there are, and how many of them play the game?

Now I'm not attempting to downplay any negative reactions you may have recieved from cartain players (OMG THERE'S A GIRL ON MY EVE!!! SEND PICS etc), but there is a point where an issue is taken beyond what someone else is saying, and instead becomes what the chip on your shoulder is saying.

Hal.
Why yes, yes I am going to shoot you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2012-12-13 17:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
CCP Falcon wrote:

Okay
Words.




Damn Falcon thats a mighty finger wagging you just gave the OPShocked


As for the OP, not only do we have women gamers but also women on the dev team. Punkturis is heading up the team that gave us the new bounty system that has resulted in oh so much chaos and she activly trolls us both on the forums and in game. We love her for it.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-12-13 20:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
If you get mistreated enough in this game, male or female, it may change your perspective as it may in RL. And, no, I'm not talking about griefing, I'm talking about everything from comments on anatomy to ineptness at PvP to "OMG a Girl is on TS! "-- let's crash and burn the whole damn fleet while we're at it.

So while I give CCP Falcon the benefit of the doubt on this and didn't see anything wrong with this gig in the first place, I also think we should cut the OP some slack because she is a person, not because she is female, who may have gained this perspective as a result of how things really work for (most) women in Eve.

In other words, she is right about how ****** this game can be for females and those who haven't experienced this would not understand, any more than most white folks would not understand why many African Americans are sensitive to comments they consider racism, while many white people don't. Yes, some play "the card" but I don't think that is the case here.

I was lucky enough to be in a corp that respects women, more than one actually, and have flown with and even FC'd some great guys. But I've also had a hard time... and if I'd of not taken some breaks from the game (not just because of such), i might see things the way the OP does.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#15 - 2012-12-13 20:43:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Amarra Mandalin wrote:


So while I give CCP Falcon the benefit of the doubt on this and didn't see anything wrong with this gig in the first place, I also think we should cut the OP some slack because she is a person, not because she is female, who may have gained this perspective as a result of how things really work for (most) women in Eve.



And why is that ?

Is 40 + years of Women's Rights and Liberation not enough for these folks to have learned how to behave ? Apparently not.




edit: It seems to me like CCP is damned if they do and damned if they don't due to BOTH sides' eternally cyclical prejudices.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-12-13 21:00:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Amarra Mandalin wrote:


So while I give CCP Falcon the benefit of the doubt on this and didn't see anything wrong with this gig in the first place, I also think we should cut the OP some slack because she is a person, not because she is female, who may have gained this perspective as a result of how things really work for (most) women in Eve.



And why is that ?

Is 40 + years of Women's Rights and Liberation not enough for these folks to have learned how to behave ? Apparently not.




edit: It seems to me like CCP is damned if they do and damned if they don't due to BOTH sides' eternally cyclical prejudices.


I have my theories. I'd like to write them sometime. But by no means is this limited to Eve. Just this morning I heard trolls in another game talk about smacking their women and making kitchen comments that could have well been said in the 1920s.

But CCP is not what I would consider a victim, unfortunately I can't type out proposed improvements in the game right now. And besides, it's people, the interwebz and anonymity, there is only so much you can do. It's really up to people, not companies (legal obligations nothwithstanding), to call bad behaviors out and where most progress for people has been made.
Halaxi
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#17 - 2012-12-13 23:53:24 UTC
Think Amarra hit it on the head there with the 'internet and annonymity' comment. It's easy to act like a tool if someone can't identify you in RL and give you a good kicking.

And as I said earlier, I'm not diminishing any adverse experience the OP had, however, people have to realise at some point that not everyone is out to persecute them on thier gender/orientation/age/physical ability/etc. Granted, this can be difficult, but once that chip comes off the shoulder, a happier life can be found.

As an aside, I don't know if the OP is aware of it, but I believe there is an in-game chat chan for female players, something along the lines of 'women players of eve' - why not go there and have a chat? Also, if you do feel that people are acting like tools towards you due to various discriminatory areas, drop a petition in to CCP. They are pretty good at stamping that stuff out. Or you could put a bounty on the offending pilot ;)

Hal.
Why yes, yes I am going to shoot you.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#18 - 2012-12-13 23:57:49 UTC
Please remember that topics about Politics, Sexuality, Race and other sadly polarising issues, whilst important, are just not allowed here.

CCP is very open about what it does allow as a valid forum topic, but threads about those sort of subjects never go anywhere positive. It baffles me why people choose to be so negative or offensive about these topics; but as a team, it's our job to ensure that the forums stay acceptable for the majority of people.

As CCP Falcon has answered the OPs topic succinctly, and because people are seemingly committed to being offensive in this thread, I've got no choice but to lock this thread.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]