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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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why cant we have mining moved to grav sites?

First post
Author
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#101 - 2012-12-12 19:53:52 UTC
cynthia greythorne wrote:
I.......... increase their number too much, and the whole exercise would seem to devolve into just a rather pointless exercise in needless complexity.

........

This and the rest of that post actually brings up a good question. Sure roids can be moved to grav sites. But why? It will not stop the bots because:

A bot is world chess champion.
A bot can drive a rover on Mars.
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion.
Google has bots driving cars in traffic.

If bots can do all that, they can scan out a grav site.

Make miners move? They already do that as systems will get mined out.
Added complexity? It cannot be too complex or it becomes inaccessible content to new players. So why? Just because? It will not make mining exciting, the scanning would be a few minutes before any 2 hour mining session.

So whats the point?

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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-12-12 19:57:15 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
cynthia greythorne wrote:
I.......... increase their number too much, and the whole exercise would seem to devolve into just a rather pointless exercise in needless complexity.

........

This and the rest of that post actually brings up a good question. Sure roids can be moved to grav sites. But why? It will not stop the bots because:

A bot is world chess champion.
A bot can drive a rover on Mars.
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion.
Google has bots driving cars in traffic.

If bots can do all that, they can scan out a grav site.

Make miners move? They already do that as systems will get mined out.
Added complexity? It cannot be too complex or it becomes inaccessible content to new players. So why? Just because? It will not make mining exciting, the scanning would be a few minutes before any 2 hour mining session.

So whats the point?

A friend of mine runs an entire group of bots in WoW, they do dungeons all day, and he can even run them in a batteground without anyone even realizing they're bots.

I don't understand people that think if you just change this one little thing, or make it a royal pain in the ass to do while actually playing, that suddenly botting will stop.

Not even anti-cheat software can stop bots.
Mirima Thurander
#103 - 2012-12-12 19:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Keep your filthy crap sites from polluting the scanning system or make it so, that such sites are ship scanner sites. That way every noob can find them and every explorer can filter them out immediately without having to waste time to scan them.


Yes, I know, let's take the easy-to-acquire minerals that are too easy to acquire and make them just as easy to acquire by making them a mouse-click away to find. Roll

Let me reiterate: I scanned my first grav site on my second day. Noobs can find them too. And there is also an "ignore result" option on your scanning UI. Learn how to scan.

And I spent like 2 weeks trying to scan down anything other than a wormhole.

YOU got lucky.
That doesn't maean that it's the same for everyone. YOU are one person out of a few hundred thousand; your experience doesn't constitute what can be expected as an overall experience.


And I disagree with the OP. There's no reason to move people from the general game world in such a way or extent.

I'd actually like to see more persistance in sites, and for sites to function more like low sec. Admittedly, most people would be against the later.

Just so its clear I made my eve billions doing nothing but high low and null scanning, I know the average by heart but [non scanning combat sites > WHs > grav > combat sites > everything else > ladar] sites.

If u do any amount of scanning u will know that's the order from most likely to find to rarest in the system we have now.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

starbelt stacy
Project-Gonk
#104 - 2012-12-12 20:04:40 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Everything should be mined out of the belts by now, and its not like we would have any less ore around when a sites used and despawns, new ones show up.

Leave the trait in the belts in small roids for noobs.



lets just all whine and moan demanding massive nerfs to eve, this is a prime example of people just simply destroying this game
very sad ..... how about we just leave this as it is without the destruction of viable professions.
Mirima Thurander
#105 - 2012-12-12 20:06:48 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
cynthia greythorne wrote:
I.......... increase their number too much, and the whole exercise would seem to devolve into just a rather pointless exercise in needless complexity.

........

This and the rest of that post actually brings up a good question. Sure roids can be moved to grav sites. But why? It will not stop the bots because:

A bot is world chess champion.
A bot can drive a rover on Mars.
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion.
Google has bots driving cars in traffic.

If bots can do all that, they can scan out a grav site.

Make miners move? They already do that as systems will get mined out.
Added complexity? It cannot be too complex or it becomes inaccessible content to new players. So why? Just because? It will not make mining exciting, the scanning would be a few minutes before any 2 hour mining session.

So whats the point?

A friend of mine runs an entire group of bots in WoW, they do dungeons all day, and he can even run them in a batteground without anyone even realizing they're bots.

I don't understand people that think if you just change this one little thing, or make it a royal pain in the ass to do while actually playing, that suddenly botting will stop.

Not even anti-cheat software can stop bots.


Did you know 9 times out of 10 a FRIEND is really the person talking. But that's besides the point I never mentioned getting so I expected it to Be a non issue as CCP has messed up a lot of them.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Dave stark
#106 - 2012-12-12 20:09:36 UTC
Casirio wrote:
ok i have only mined like 10 minutes in my whole eve career and it was the boringist thing ever. I think mining should be a mini game, like scanning.. where you have to direct your laser on a big asteroid and chip away at it, finding the hidden good bits of ore that can be worth a lot of isk or something. That would be great.

no it wouldn't
Eru GoEller
State War Academy
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-12-12 20:11:41 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
[quote=Toku Jiang][quote=Remiel Pollard]
..............
The benefits of this:
1) you get EXTRA sites available only to people that have trained for the specific site type
So you're saying that if i don't have the same skillset as the one who found the site, i can't probe his ship down?
Kinda breaks the sandbox, doesn't it?
.......................

Mirima Thurander
#108 - 2012-12-12 20:11:49 UTC
Any one noticed how the post quality on the forums takes a dive around 3:15 on the east coast in the us?

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Mirima Thurander
#109 - 2012-12-12 20:12:45 UTC
Eru GoEller wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
[quote=Toku Jiang][quote=Remiel Pollard]
..............
The benefits of this:
1) you get EXTRA sites available only to people that have trained for the specific site type
So you're saying that if i don't have the same skillset as the one who found the site, i can't probe his ship down?
Kinda breaks the sandbox, doesn't it?
.......................


Lol no combat probes still scan ships in this system do they not?

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Dave stark
#110 - 2012-12-12 20:12:47 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Any one noticed how the post quality on the forums takes a dive around 3:15 on the east coast in the us?

you mean... when the schools are let out?
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#111 - 2012-12-12 20:19:32 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
cynthia greythorne wrote:
I.......... increase their number too much, and the whole exercise would seem to devolve into just a rather pointless exercise in needless complexity.

........

This and the rest of that post actually brings up a good question. Sure roids can be moved to grav sites. But why? It will not stop the bots because:

A bot is world chess champion.
A bot can drive a rover on Mars.
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion.
Google has bots driving cars in traffic.

If bots can do all that, they can scan out a grav site.

Make miners move? They already do that as systems will get mined out.
Added complexity? It cannot be too complex or it becomes inaccessible content to new players. So why? Just because? It will not make mining exciting, the scanning would be a few minutes before any 2 hour mining session.

So whats the point?

To make the process of mining more fun, end-to-end.

To make mining around the Jita area possible at times other then the hour after downtime (since anomalies and signatures respawn separately from downtimes).

To make highsec a better training area for other regions of space.

To encourage greater mobility of players, and bump them against each other in new and interesting ways. Yes, I know you addressed that one already, but there isn't that much mobility. Miners settle in systems that have rocks during their normal play times and don't generally need to move at that point.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Mirima Thurander
#112 - 2012-12-12 20:22:45 UTC
This system also has the ability to make miners hate none another for poaching each others sites, grudges are made bluntys placed war Decs show up and fights happen.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-12-12 20:22:57 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Keep your filthy crap sites from polluting the scanning system or make it so, that such sites are ship scanner sites. That way every noob can find them and every explorer can filter them out immediately without having to waste time to scan them.


Yes, I know, let's take the easy-to-acquire minerals that are too easy to acquire and make them just as easy to acquire by making them a mouse-click away to find. Roll

Let me reiterate: I scanned my first grav site on my second day. Noobs can find them too. And there is also an "ignore result" option on your scanning UI. Learn how to scan.

And I spent like 2 weeks trying to scan down anything other than a wormhole.

YOU got lucky.
That doesn't maean that it's the same for everyone. YOU are one person out of a few hundred thousand; your experience doesn't constitute what can be expected as an overall experience.


And I disagree with the OP. There's no reason to move people from the general game world in such a way or extent.

I'd actually like to see more persistance in sites, and for sites to function more like low sec. Admittedly, most people would be against the later.

Just so its clear I made my eve billions doing nothing but high low and null scanning, I know the average by heart but [non scanning combat sites > WHs > grav > combat sites > everything else > ladar] sites.

If u do any amount of scanning u will know that's the order from most likely to find to rarest in the system we have now.

It was two weeks on a new alt, having never done scanning before. I thought it would be a fun little diversion; something I could putz around in high sec and do.

I'm sure I would have got better results had I stuck with it and actually learned a little more.

But it was more to express that just because HE found one in 2 days doesn't mean a new player is going to do the same. Especally when they have little knowledge of most of the games to begin with.



I am wrong.
I found one site in time that was not a WH, can't remember what it was now. I do remember entering, and then immediiately fleeing for my life from the rats.
Just because you do manage to find a site, doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be able to do anything in it; especially after 2 days.

I also know you can go into low sec and hunt belt rats in under 5 days. That doesn't mean that someone new to the game can do it, it just means that it can be done when you actually know what you're doing.

New players generally don't know what they're doing.

I just dislike the "I can do it, so can you" arguements; especially where it concerns new player activety.
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#114 - 2012-12-12 20:25:59 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Keep your filthy crap sites from polluting the scanning system or make it so, that such sites are ship scanner sites. That way every noob can find them and every explorer can filter them out immediately without having to waste time to scan them.


Yes, I know, let's take the easy-to-acquire minerals that are too easy to acquire and make them just as easy to acquire by making them a mouse-click away to find. Roll

Let me reiterate: I scanned my first grav site on my second day. Noobs can find them too. And there is also an "ignore result" option on your scanning UI. Learn how to scan.

And I spent like 2 weeks trying to scan down anything other than a wormhole.

YOU got lucky.
That doesn't maean that it's the same for everyone. YOU are one person out of a few hundred thousand; your experience doesn't constitute what can be expected as an overall experience.


And I disagree with the OP. There's no reason to move people from the general game world in such a way or extent.

I'd actually like to see more persistance in sites, and for sites to function more like low sec. Admittedly, most people would be against the later.

Just so its clear I made my eve billions doing nothing but high low and null scanning, I know the average by heart but [non scanning combat sites > WHs > grav > combat sites > everything else > ladar] sites.

If u do any amount of scanning u will know that's the order from most likely to find to rarest in the system we have now.

It was two weeks on a new alt, having never done scanning before. I thought it would be a fun little diversion; something I could putz around in high sec and do.

I'm sure I would have got better results had I stuck with it and actually learned a little more.

But it was more to express that just because HE found one in 2 days doesn't mean a new player is going to do the same. Especally when they have little knowledge of most of the games to begin with.



I am wrong.
I found one site in time that was not a WH, can't remember what it was now. I do remember entering, and then immediiately fleeing for my life from the rats.
Just because you do manage to find a site, doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be able to do anything in it; especially after 2 days.

I also know you can go into low sec and hunt belt rats in under 5 days. That doesn't mean that someone new to the game can do it, it just means that it can be done when you actually know what you're doing.

New players generally don't know what they're doing.

I just dislike the "I can do it, so can you" arguements; especially where it concerns new player activety.


When I was a new player, when I learned about the scanning system (not probes, ship scanner) which was basic and straightforward. I loved it, I thought it was the coolest freaking thing ever.

I think having ship-scanning be a part of earlier asteroid fields would be fine complexity-wise for newer players, then having scannable higher end fields.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker

Mirima Thurander
#115 - 2012-12-12 20:30:15 UTC
If a new player has done the tutorials they know how to do basic scanning.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Dave stark
#116 - 2012-12-12 20:34:31 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
This system also has the ability to make miners hate none another for poaching each others sites, grudges are made bluntys placed war Decs show up and fights happen.


wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.
Mirima Thurander
#117 - 2012-12-12 20:39:06 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
This system also has the ability to make miners hate none another for poaching each others sites, grudges are made bluntys placed war Decs show up and fights happen.


wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.

Hurrr the instantly respawn. U have no clue how the scanning system works do you?

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-12-12 20:41:49 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
This system also has the ability to make miners hate none another for poaching each others sites, grudges are made bluntys placed war Decs show up and fights happen.


wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.

Hurrr the instantly respawn. U have no clue how the scanning system works do you?

I thought there was a finite number of sites each day, and that they respawned after downtime.

This is what I was told when I asked why I only ever found WH's while exploring.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#119 - 2012-12-12 20:42:26 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
This system also has the ability to make miners hate none another for poaching each others sites, grudges are made bluntys placed war Decs show up and fights happen.


wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.

Signatures and anomalies don't respawn at downtime, they are on free running timers now (I think that is part of the "Death to Downtime" initiative).
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=817

Taking out the asteroid belt respawns at downtime would cut the downtime maintenance tasks further, pushing us closer to the time that EvE only goes down for upgrades.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#120 - 2012-12-12 20:42:57 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
This system also has the ability to make miners hate none another for poaching each others sites, grudges are made bluntys placed war Decs show up and fights happen.


wrong, us euro miners will come along after DT, strip them clean, and sit drinking the tears of the US time zone miners who complain that all of the grav sites have been devoured.

Hurrr the instantly respawn. U have no clue how the scanning system works do you?

I thought there was a finite number of sites each day, and that they respawned after downtime.

This is what I was told when I asked why I only ever found WH's while exploring.


That was the old system (I thought that too).

Apparently they changed it sometime in the past, where now they respawn randomly throughout the day instead of just after downtime.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker