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CCP do you support permadecs?

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Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#41 - 2012-12-11 12:10:37 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Patch notes for EVE Online: Retribution 1.0.3

To be released on Monday, December 10, 2012

Wars:

Wars that are now made mutual will always be able to be retracted by the aggressor, even if the war is made non-mutual


This is not working as intended, we are unable to retract out war vs. Dec Shield, we are still getting bills for it, but are you paying them, yet by exploiting game mechanics the war is kept going.

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#42 - 2012-12-11 13:28:15 UTC
Hulemand wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Patch notes for EVE Online: Retribution 1.0.3

To be released on Monday, December 10, 2012

Wars:

Wars that are now made mutual will always be able to be retracted by the aggressor, even if the war is made non-mutual


This is not working as intended, we are unable to retract out war vs. Dec Shield, we are still getting bills for it, but are you paying them, yet by exploiting game mechanics the war is kept going.


Dec Shield announced that it is coming to end and they are no longer able to work through the exploits and loopholes to perma dec that once worked.
Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#43 - 2012-12-11 15:44:15 UTC
Our war with them was made non-mutual on December 4th, resulting in a war bill we did not pay. Now we had a new war bill today on December 11th. Seems like the war is not ending.

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer
CCP Paradox
#44 - 2012-12-11 16:07:59 UTC
Hulemand wrote:
Our war with them was made non-mutual on December 4th, resulting in a war bill we did not pay. Now we had a new war bill today on December 11th. Seems like the war is not ending.


What happened in the last week, that the bills for the wars were cancelled before Dec 4th which created new bills for a 7 day war. Additionally after the Retribution release, this could also happen. So bills were cancelled again, and this was resolved yesterday. This created new 7 day ways for everyone from Dec 11th.
This is the last week. The bills cannot be cancelled and created again, resulting in another 7 day war.
If a war is made mutual and then non mutual, you will always have the option to retract the war, from then on out.
If a corp joins an alliance, you will have a bill for just the alliance.
If a corp leaves an alliance, you will have a bill for the alliance and corp that left. Both of these bills will always carry the same status as the original bill.
If the original bill had a due date of 16th December, and had not been paid. Then both the Corp that left, and Alliance will have the same values. You would see both of them in the wallet as due on the 16th, and that have not been paid yet.

I hope this clears it up for now.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#45 - 2012-12-11 16:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: The Zerg Overmind
CCP Paradox wrote:

If a corp leaves an alliance, you will have a bill for the alliance and corp that left. Both of these bills will always carry the same status as the original bill.

It seems that a paid splintered war is inheriting the billing status of the parent war (no bill for the second week if it was already paid for parent alliance's war before the drop). But it's incorrectly sending out a notification to the aggressor that says there's a bill to be paid when there isn't.

CorpA wardecs an Alliance
CorpA pays the bill to extend the war for a second week
CorpB drops from the Alliance
CorpA is sent a notification that there is a new bill to be paid (using incorrect information from the parent war). However the actual bill seems to be correct. The notification is just incorrect.

There are a few notifications and pop-ups that are incorrect with the new war system because things have been changing so rapidly. These are the three I've found so far:

1.) The above one
2.) The war declaration message is now incorrect. It states that outgoing wardecs increase in cost based on the number of outgoing wardecs you have.
3.) The message for booting a corp out of alliance is misleading. It implies that booting a corporation from the alliance will retract the wars, when that isn't the case.


There are also some bugs right now that are preventing code changes from affecting people. Downtimes seem to help correct the issue though. It seems that some mutual wars and mutuals made unmutual don't present the retraction option until after a DT. We're seeing this on Buckingham as well

Burn Highsec Griefers
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#46 - 2012-12-11 16:43:26 UTC
Just finished reading the thread. Wardecs were never intended by CCP to be used as a griefing mechanic against the aggressors, only the defenders. Permadecs were never an intended consequence, and they've been working to stop them. Believe me, they have been. You've seen the expansion notes, and the patch notes. Those are all aimed at stopping this.

Inferno introduced 3 unique methods of perma-wardecs:

1.) Set mutual and they cannot retract
2.) Bounce corps in/out of alliance so they cannot escape
3.) Toggle mutual/unmutual so it marks their war bill as being paid

Right now all 3 methods are patched. So within 7 days everyone who wants to escape will escape. At that time I'll set everything remaining to mutual to hold the stragglers as long as possible, and then we'll go dormant until the galaxy needs us again

Burn Highsec Griefers
CCP Paradox
#47 - 2012-12-11 18:49:13 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:

If a corp leaves an alliance, you will have a bill for the alliance and corp that left. Both of these bills will always carry the same status as the original bill.

It seems that a paid splintered war is inheriting the billing status of the parent war (no bill for the second week if it was already paid for parent alliance's war before the drop). But it's incorrectly sending out a notification to the aggressor that says there's a bill to be paid when there isn't.

CorpA wardecs an Alliance
CorpA pays the bill to extend the war for a second week
CorpB drops from the Alliance
CorpA is sent a notification that there is a new bill to be paid (using incorrect information from the parent war). However the actual bill seems to be correct. The notification is just incorrect.

There are a few notifications and pop-ups that are incorrect with the new war system because things have been changing so rapidly. These are the three I've found so far:

1.) The above one
2.) The war declaration message is now incorrect. It states that outgoing wardecs increase in cost based on the number of outgoing wardecs you have.
3.) The message for booting a corp out of alliance is misleading. It implies that booting a corporation from the alliance will retract the wars, when that isn't the case.


There are also some bugs right now that are preventing code changes from affecting people. Downtimes seem to help correct the issue though. It seems that some mutual wars and mutuals made unmutual don't present the retraction option until after a DT. We're seeing this on Buckingham as well


Thanks for the feedback ! :)
It is sending an incorrect notification, however the bill is correct in the database. You are right in us messing up notifications in the recent fixes.

I will give this information to the designers in a defect form, so we can add them to a backlog item we currently have to redo the war notifications.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Powers Sa
#48 - 2012-12-11 21:05:19 UTC
END OF AN ERA. RIP.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
AnzacPaul
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2012-12-12 02:41:19 UTC
This still is not fixed
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#50 - 2012-12-12 02:51:51 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Just finished reading the thread. Wardecs were never intended by CCP to be used as a griefing mechanic against the aggressors, only the defenders.



which is damned funny how fast they react to this

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

fukier
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-12-12 04:15:51 UTC
i dont know why but every time i read the title of the op for a second i read does CCP support Paramedics...

damn dyslexia...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Oopsy Bear
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-12-12 07:11:02 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:

Use your main to post serieuse threats....

Or this is QQ dec shield post.


As long as there are groups within the game who have a stated goal of griefing people for forum posts they don't like then you will see people post with alts. The people who throw out the "post on your main" line are those who either don't have any point left to argue or those who enjoy stifling opinions they don't agree with through their in-game "power". Not everyone has the time, isk, desire, or masochistic tendencies to fight forum warriors.
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#53 - 2012-12-12 18:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Junko Sideswipe
Still not fixed, we retracted our mutual wars when the expansion hit. Then we retracted all the non-mutual wars we could after the subsequent patch fixes. Our original mutual/non-mutual war with Dec Shield finally ended a few minutes ago, but before that even ended they got another dec on us this morning, so now Dec Shield has yet another dec on us and I can't even retract it.

ccp plz

EDIT: Here's a screenshot, Tribal Band and PH0ENIX COMPANY are legitimate wars started by us, the rest are Dec Shield garbage wars.

http://i.imgur.com/SshWs.jpg


EDIT EDIT: Also why do I have 3 times as many bills as actual wars in my list?

PIZZA CEO
Emu Meo
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-12-12 18:40:32 UTC
People saying still not fixed are showing their lack of reading comprehension. Try reading the Dev responses again.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#55 - 2012-12-12 18:43:54 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:

If a corp leaves an alliance, you will have a bill for the alliance and corp that left. Both of these bills will always carry the same status as the original bill.

It seems that a paid splintered war is inheriting the billing status of the parent war (no bill for the second week if it was already paid for parent alliance's war before the drop). But it's incorrectly sending out a notification to the aggressor that says there's a bill to be paid when there isn't.

CorpA wardecs an Alliance
CorpA pays the bill to extend the war for a second week
CorpB drops from the Alliance
CorpA is sent a notification that there is a new bill to be paid (using incorrect information from the parent war). However the actual bill seems to be correct. The notification is just incorrect.

There are a few notifications and pop-ups that are incorrect with the new war system because things have been changing so rapidly. These are the three I've found so far:

1.) The above one
2.) The war declaration message is now incorrect. It states that outgoing wardecs increase in cost based on the number of outgoing wardecs you have.
3.) The message for booting a corp out of alliance is misleading. It implies that booting a corporation from the alliance will retract the wars, when that isn't the case.


There are also some bugs right now that are preventing code changes from affecting people. Downtimes seem to help correct the issue though. It seems that some mutual wars and mutuals made unmutual don't present the retraction option until after a DT. We're seeing this on Buckingham as well


Thanks for the feedback ! :)
It is sending an incorrect notification, however the bill is correct in the database. You are right in us messing up notifications in the recent fixes.

I will give this information to the designers in a defect form, so we can add them to a backlog item we currently have to redo the war notifications.

that one?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#56 - 2012-12-12 18:58:18 UTC
Emu Meo wrote:
People saying still not fixed are showing their lack of reading comprehension. Try reading the Dev responses again.


Won't believe it till I see it. This has been going on way too long and has been handled pretty poorly overall. Apologies to the devs that work really hard on EVE and want to fix stuff for the playerbase, you guys are awesome.

PIZZA CEO
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#57 - 2012-12-12 20:36:04 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Wardecs were never intended by CCP to be used as a griefing mechanic against the aggressors, only the defenders. Permadecs were never an intended consequence, and they've been working to stop them. Believe me, they have been. You've seen the expansion notes, and the patch notes. Those are all aimed at stopping this.

Inferno introduced 3 unique methods of perma-wardecs:

1.) Set mutual and they cannot retract
2.) Bounce corps in/out of alliance so they cannot escape
3.) Toggle mutual/unmutual so it marks their war bill as being paid

Right now all 3 methods are patched. So within 7 days everyone who wants to escape will escape. At that time I'll set everything remaining to mutual to hold the stragglers as long as possible, and then we'll go dormant until the galaxy needs us again

Keep on doing your best if something else crops up !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
AnzacPaul
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2012-12-12 20:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: AnzacPaul
Invictus Australis has declared war on Dec Shield Ambassador 27.0.
Fighting can legally occur between those involved.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#59 - 2012-12-12 20:59:45 UTC
AnzacPaul wrote:
Emu Meo wrote:
People saying still not fixed are showing their lack of reading comprehension. Try reading the Dev responses again.

From: CONCORD
Sent: 2012.12.12 20:42

Invictus Australis has declared war on Dec Shield Ambassador 27.0.
Fighting can legally occur between those involved.

Man, those ambassadors don't have diplomatic immunity in our cold and harsh EVE ONLINE.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Art Gallery
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-12-12 21:40:04 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
AnzacPaul wrote:
Emu Meo wrote:
People saying still not fixed are showing their lack of reading comprehension. Try reading the Dev responses again.

From: CONCORD
Sent: 2012.12.12 20:42

Invictus Australis has declared war on Dec Shield Ambassador 27.0.
Fighting can legally occur between those involved.

Man, those ambassadors don't have diplomatic immunity in our cold and harsh EVE ONLINE.


Corporation you are at war with is joining an alliance
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2012.12.12 21:00

EVE Corporation 8675342 is joining Dec Shield alliance. Since you are at war with EVE Corporation 8675342, in 24 hours you will also be at war with Dec Shield.