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Why oh why have you done this, CCP?

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Ste'ven Sch'orik
East Khanid Trading
#1 - 2012-12-11 11:02:05 UTC
First of all, its absolutely ridiculous that even in PVE there is an entire FIVE MINUTE delay for warp out when in combat. Why is this necessary in PVE, seriously? What if our power goes out or our internet drops out? Well, we just lost a ship for no friggin good reason and through no fault of our own, but because of a stupid and pointless addition to PVE, thats what if. Its almost impossible to enjoy PVE now when I'm having to worry about my connection being cut off in one way or another and then logging back on to find my perfectly specced and specialized ship destroyed through no fault of my own. At the very LEAST, to counter this possibility, all modules should be made to continue to function even when the player has gone offline. If that is not possible, reduce the amount of time to about 10 seconds or get rid of it from PVE completely.

Secondly, why did you make it no longer possible to eject from a T3 strategic cruiser during combat? Punishment for flying one? Why are you catering so much to PVP at the expense of PVE? Did a bunch of piwates, Goons, or plain PVPers complain that it wasn't "easy enough" to fight or kill someone?

In conclusion, I ask this question concerning both topics; WHY!?
Leeroya Jenkins
Galactic Traders Union
#2 - 2012-12-11 11:06:27 UTC
You died when you were scrambled by NPC before.

This whole shabang with the AI and timers is great.


poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-12-11 11:08:35 UTC
Because of falcon?

No.

Buy. More. Plex.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2012-12-11 11:09:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
Because PVE pilots shouldn't be risk free in hostile environments.
And you shouldn't be able to gank ships at gates with your T3 and eject from it when somebody arrive to gank you leaving your cruiser for scooping by alt/ally orca. Again, no more risk free playtime.

Edit: also no more avoiding SP loss when your T3 explodes. You commit to a fight you live with consequences.

Invalid signature format
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#5 - 2012-12-11 11:10:18 UTC
Ste'ven Sch'orik wrote:
First of all, its absolutely ridiculous that even in PVE there is an entire FIVE MINUTE delay for warp out when in combat. Why is this necessary in PVE, seriously? What if our power goes out or our internet drops out? Well, we just lost a ship for no friggin good reason and through no fault of our own, but because of a stupid and pointless addition to PVE, thats what if. Its almost impossible to enjoy PVE now when I'm having to worry about my connection being cut off in one way or another and then logging back on to find my perfectly specced and specialized ship destroyed through no fault of my own. At the very LEAST, to counter this possibility, all modules should be made to continue to function even when the player has gone offline. If that is not possible, reduce the amount of time to about 10 seconds or get rid of it from PVE completely.

Secondly, why did you make it no longer possible to eject from a T3 strategic cruiser during combat? Punishment for flying one? Why are you catering so much to PVP at the expense of PVE? Did a bunch of piwates, Goons, or plain PVPers complain that it wasn't "easy enough" to fight or kill someone?

In conclusion, I ask this question concerning both topics; WHY!?


Rage indicates recent victim of ship loss. 5 minute timer is there to stop people chickening out when getting a pounded by NPCs (it was a little bit of an exploit to be honest) And the ejection change was to stop people avoiding the SP loss punishment for flying them.

In other words you have gotten so used to the old "exploitable" system to minimize your losses you seem to have forgotten the ago old phrase

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" be that ISK or SP
Frying Doom
#6 - 2012-12-11 11:13:29 UTC
Ste'ven Sch'orik wrote:
First of all, its absolutely ridiculous that even in PVE there is an entire FIVE MINUTE delay for warp out when in combat. Why is this necessary in PVE, seriously? What if our power goes out or our internet drops out? Well, we just lost a ship for no friggin good reason and through no fault of our own, but because of a stupid and pointless addition to PVE, thats what if. Its almost impossible to enjoy PVE now when I'm having to worry about my connection being cut off in one way or another and then logging back on to find my perfectly specced and specialized ship destroyed through no fault of my own. At the very LEAST, to counter this possibility, all modules should be made to continue to function even when the player has gone offline. If that is not possible, reduce the amount of time to about 10 seconds or get rid of it from PVE completely.

Secondly, why did you make it no longer possible to eject from a T3 strategic cruiser during combat? Punishment for flying one? Why are you catering so much to PVP at the expense of PVE? Did a bunch of piwates, Goons, or plain PVPers complain that it wasn't "easy enough" to fight or kill someone?

In conclusion, I ask this question concerning both topics; WHY!?

Quick question. Did you Vote in the CSM 7 election, back in February/March?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#7 - 2012-12-11 11:15:56 UTC
MainDrain wrote:

Rage indicates recent victim of ship loss. 5 minute timer is there to stop people chickening out when getting a pounded by NPCs (it was a little bit of an exploit to be honest) And the ejection change was to stop people avoiding the SP loss punishment for flying them.

In other words you have gotten so used to the old "exploitable" system to minimize your losses you seem to have forgotten the ago old phrase

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" be that ISK or SP


Do the modules turn off during those 5 minutes? Because disconnects happen (i.e. I get at least 1 per day due to DHCP updates) and it'd be quite poor to sit 5 minutes with no hardeners / damage control active.

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Kehro Urgus
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-11 11:18:36 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Ste'ven Sch'orik wrote:
First of all, its absolutely ridiculous that even in PVE there is an entire FIVE MINUTE delay for warp out when in combat. Why is this necessary in PVE, seriously? What if our power goes out or our internet drops out? Well, we just lost a ship for no friggin good reason and through no fault of our own, but because of a stupid and pointless addition to PVE, thats what if. Its almost impossible to enjoy PVE now when I'm having to worry about my connection being cut off in one way or another and then logging back on to find my perfectly specced and specialized ship destroyed through no fault of my own. At the very LEAST, to counter this possibility, all modules should be made to continue to function even when the player has gone offline. If that is not possible, reduce the amount of time to about 10 seconds or get rid of it from PVE completely.

Secondly, why did you make it no longer possible to eject from a T3 strategic cruiser during combat? Punishment for flying one? Why are you catering so much to PVP at the expense of PVE? Did a bunch of piwates, Goons, or plain PVPers complain that it wasn't "easy enough" to fight or kill someone?

In conclusion, I ask this question concerning both topics; WHY!?

Quick question. Did you Vote in the CSM 7 election, back in February/March?


Obviously not one of the 10 058. Roll

Yeeee! 
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#9 - 2012-12-11 11:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: MainDrain
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
MainDrain wrote:

Rage indicates recent victim of ship loss. 5 minute timer is there to stop people chickening out when getting a pounded by NPCs (it was a little bit of an exploit to be honest) And the ejection change was to stop people avoiding the SP loss punishment for flying them.

In other words you have gotten so used to the old "exploitable" system to minimize your losses you seem to have forgotten the ago old phrase

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" be that ISK or SP


Do the modules turn off during those 5 minutes? Because disconnects happen (i.e. I get at least 1 per day due to DHCP updates) and it'd be quite poor to sit 5 minutes with no hardeners / damage control active.



I'm not sure, my understanding of the 5 minute time is that as long as you are under attack the time will not countdown to 0. For it to countdown you either need to leave the grid, or kill everything.

I will agree with the current insane aggro issue on level 4s this has lead to a much larger number of ship losses than CCP expected. Either they will fix the trigger system, or as always we will just have to adapt our fits and mission running style (small gangs with t1 logisitcs)

Edit: with most disconnects you can usually log back in very quickly though
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#10 - 2012-12-11 11:26:36 UTC
When you disconnect, the ship will attempt an emergency warp. At this point in time modules will be deactivated — from memory they don't even complete a cycle. Your ship will then disappear from space 5m later.

In the old days, if you were warp scrambled there was a 60s delay until your ship would simply pop out of existence. If you had aggressed the enemy there was a longer timer (15 minutes?). These days it's 5 minutes regardless of whether you shot the NPCs or not.

These losses have always happened, I know from personal experience from losing a CNR to a crash-to-desktop several years ago: the tank fails, then the ship just sits there and your alt/friend can do nothing but sit and watch as the ship gets turned to space junk (RR doesn't work as well as it should since the hardeners get switched off). When your pod appears it should warp off within a few seconds due to not being aggressed by NPCs.

I suspect that the reason these threads are being posted is due to the change in NPC AI where entire rooms will aggro on entry, where the NPCs used to aggro in groups, allowing L4 missions to be run solo in non-Tengus by simply picking which groups to aggro in a controlled manner.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-11 11:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
MainDrain wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
MainDrain wrote:

Rage indicates recent victim of ship loss. 5 minute timer is there to stop people chickening out when getting a pounded by NPCs (it was a little bit of an exploit to be honest) And the ejection change was to stop people avoiding the SP loss punishment for flying them.

In other words you have gotten so used to the old "exploitable" system to minimize your losses you seem to have forgotten the ago old phrase

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" be that ISK or SP


Do the modules turn off during those 5 minutes? Because disconnects happen (i.e. I get at least 1 per day due to DHCP updates) and it'd be quite poor to sit 5 minutes with no hardeners / damage control active.



I'm not sure, my understanding of the 5 minute time is that as long as you are under attack the time will not countdown to 0. For it to countdown you either need to leave the grid, or kill everything.

I will agree with the current insane aggro issue on level 4s this has lead to a much larger number of ship losses than CCP expected. Either they will fix the trigger system, or as always we will just have to adapt our fits and mission running style (small gangs with t1 logisitcs)

Edit: with most disconnects you can usually log back in very quickly though


Running a dual-rep+DCU Incursus with a mate in a Vindicator on a level four mission, my laptop overheated (it's a crap laptop, plus it's summer here) and shut itself down. I admit, I panicked - I had to wait for it to cool down, boot back up, reconnect and log back in. I logged back in and found my Incursus in warp with both reppers and the DCU still running, and about ~30% shield, no hull loss. Warped on to site to find my mate cleaning up the last pockets with drones, swooped in to help, got isk.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Doddy
Excidium.
#12 - 2012-12-11 11:39:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
It is your fault if you have crap isp and are constantly losing connection tbh, eve requires "a stable internet connection" for a reason.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-11 11:41:49 UTC
Ste'ven Sch'orik wrote:
First of all, its absolutely ridiculous that even in PVE there is an entire FIVE MINUTE delay for warp out when in combat.


There isn't, the delay is for your ship to dissappear, emergency warp will still be attempted as soon as you log off/disconnect.

Ste'ven Sch'orik wrote:
Why is this necessary in PVE, seriously? What if our power goes out or our internet drops out? Well, we just lost a ship for no friggin good reason and through no fault of our own, but because of a stupid and pointless addition to PVE, thats what if. Its almost impossible to enjoy PVE now when I'm having to worry about my connection being cut off in one way or another and then logging back on to find my perfectly specced and specialized ship destroyed through no fault of my own. At the very LEAST, to counter this possibility, all modules should be made to continue to function even when the player has gone offline. If that is not possible, reduce the amount of time to about 10 seconds or get rid of it from PVE completely.


It happens. And no, the timer was changed for a reason. No more 100% safe ratting in carriers that log off as soon as someone enters local.

Ste'ven Sch'orik wrote:
Secondly, why did you make it no longer possible to eject from a T3 strategic cruiser during combat? Punishment for flying one? Why are you catering so much to PVP at the expense of PVE? Did a bunch of piwates, Goons, or plain PVPers complain that it wasn't "easy enough" to fight or kill someone?

In conclusion, I ask this question concerning both topics; WHY!?


Also not true, you can eject if you wait out the 60 second weapons timer. However here I agree with you that it's silly that we can not eject while under combat. Fixing another broken mechanic related to scooping ships to the safety of Orca/Carrier by preventing ejection is quite simply stupid.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#14 - 2012-12-11 11:43:27 UTC
Doddy wrote:
It is your fault if you have crap isp and are constantly using connection tbh, eve requires "a stable internet connection" for a reason.


Do you even understand what DHCP is? You can be in the best country in the world, if your IP gets changed then EvE's connection drops. A large number of countries have DHCP DSL as almost the only way to connect.

So it's "your fault" for flaming about stuff you don't know about.

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-12-11 11:49:15 UTC
Ste'ven Sch'orik wrote:
First of all, its absolutely ridiculous that even in PVE there is an entire FIVE MINUTE delay for warp out when in combat. Why is this necessary in PVE, seriously? What if our power goes out or our internet drops out? Well, we just lost a ship for no friggin good reason and through no fault of our own, but because of a stupid and pointless addition to PVE, thats what if. Its almost impossible to enjoy PVE now when I'm having to worry about my connection being cut off in one way or another and then logging back on to find my perfectly specced and specialized ship destroyed through no fault of my own. At the very LEAST, to counter this possibility, all modules should be made to continue to function even when the player has gone offline. If that is not possible, reduce the amount of time to about 10 seconds or get rid of it from PVE completely.

Secondly, why did you make it no longer possible to eject from a T3 strategic cruiser during combat? Punishment for flying one? Why are you catering so much to PVP at the expense of PVE? Did a bunch of piwates, Goons, or plain PVPers complain that it wasn't "easy enough" to fight or kill someone?

In conclusion, I ask this question concerning both topics; WHY!?



Why not?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Doddy
Excidium.
#16 - 2012-12-11 11:52:16 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
MainDrain wrote:

Rage indicates recent victim of ship loss. 5 minute timer is there to stop people chickening out when getting a pounded by NPCs (it was a little bit of an exploit to be honest) And the ejection change was to stop people avoiding the SP loss punishment for flying them.

In other words you have gotten so used to the old "exploitable" system to minimize your losses you seem to have forgotten the ago old phrase

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" be that ISK or SP


Do the modules turn off during those 5 minutes? Because disconnects happen (i.e. I get at least 1 per day due to DHCP updates) and it'd be quite poor to sit 5 minutes with no hardeners / damage control active.



I'm not sure, my understanding of the 5 minute time is that as long as you are under attack the time will not countdown to 0. For it to countdown you either need to leave the grid, or kill everything.

I will agree with the current insane aggro issue on level 4s this has lead to a much larger number of ship losses than CCP expected. Either they will fix the trigger system, or as always we will just have to adapt our fits and mission running style (small gangs with t1 logisitcs)

Edit: with most disconnects you can usually log back in very quickly though


Npc timer is not reset by continuous agression, all modules stay running. Worst case scenario your drones keep fighting, kill the wrong triggers and overwhelm you.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-11 11:52:36 UTC
Post the lossmail so we can all laugh at you.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Kurt Saken
Star Cluster Wanderer
#18 - 2012-12-11 11:58:56 UTC
I think i like the good guy Goon.
CCP Falcon
#19 - 2012-12-11 12:26:00 UTC
poppeteer wrote:
Because of falcon?

No.

Buy. More. Plex.


It wasn't my fault. Sad

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
CCP Falcon
#20 - 2012-12-11 12:28:00 UTC

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Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3