These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Hilmar may have acted, but Dust is still at risk.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#1 - 2011-10-22 08:11:58 UTC
As the CEO, Hilmar has failed to follow a key principle that applies to practically any business.

Keep your core business close.

So much is commoditised in today’s technology marketplace when you have a differentiator you treat it like the blood and treasure of a kingdom. You don’t farm it out, you don’t rule from afar.

Dust is an example of failing to heed this principle.

So much was done wrong here it’s amazing that it was ever considered let alone executed as a plan.

Time Zone differences and geographical distances are constraints unable to be changed from day one on this project. Every hour of work effort comes with baked in cost overheads of latency. Why Hilmar would approve an operating model with such obvious flaws as only a couple of core business hours overlapping between Reykjavík and Shanghai and an 8,000KM journey is a mystery.

Separating the key stakeholders in this project means that resolving every issue critical to success or failure is looked at through the lens of flight schedules. CCP Shanghai people are very talented, but are they talented enough to work without a net on the first attempt? It might have felt like good sense to have the Dust team near SOE, but it just sounds like a chance for them to go native.

Dust is well behind time and it is obviously well over budget. Conceptually the idea of Dust has been positively received. However, overall and to be honest the reception of the “first looks” has been fairly underwhelming.

CCP will save buckets of cash sacking one in five of its people. The cost to CCP’s culture and as an employer of choice remains to be seen. Now CCP have the expense of also keeping World of Dust at station keeping so you can keep a whole mess of software capitalised. It will be interesting to see if this game is the DNF for CCP.

The choice around the development platform is also related to this principle. As well as automatically excluding a chunk of existing customers by default CCP have no record of developing PS games. No company experience with SOE in the trenches and will essentially be competing with SOE own PS2. It would seem that CCP decided to take nothing from the well publicised experiences of Valve with Sierra Online.

Dust was supposed to be a paradigm defining entertainment experience. It may end up being good, very good. It is still a long way out though no matter how many have been sacked and redeployed. It has also meant that a wave of “new” EVE customers CCP has craved has now been disappointed as shiny including WiS and all that comes with it becomes pushed back several years.

Hilmar may have made some tough calls to overcome what is obviously a very precarious budget situation but the situation remains. He is still failing the principle of making Dust succeed.

Keep your core business close.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-10-22 08:46:31 UTC
Nice, thought out, well written post.

Other than that, I think Hilmar already knows that and is seriously trying to fix the prob.

However, we as a community need to mellow out, stop beating up this issue and give CCP a chance to prove themselves.

Let's watch what they do now.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#3 - 2011-10-22 11:15:07 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Nice, thought out, well written post.

Other than that, I think Hilmar already knows that and is seriously trying to fix the prob.

However, we as a community need to mellow out, stop beating up this issue and give CCP a chance to prove themselves.

Let's watch what they do now.
Thank you for the positive feedback.

I have no doubt that Hilmar is aware of the bind he is in, I just haven't yet read anything that states that Dust is really on the right track. Besides comments about getting it done, what isn't being said is apparent as well.

I'm not particularly concerned with Dust as a game, but I am worried how a catastrophic failure of Dust would impact EVE, just as CCP's FiS u-turn has impacted customers anxious for WiS.

Hilmar has spoken about doing less work, and redirecting efforts back to FiS but a failure of Dust would arguably be much more harmful to CCP than the last few weeks have been with the added fact that CCP's strategy has been entirely wrong, or so badly executed it didn't matter anyway.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#4 - 2011-10-22 11:19:15 UTC
They have chained themselves with Sony, there's no backing out now.

It's dust or bust.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Guy Grand
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-22 11:32:22 UTC
I don't think Dust will do that bad.

This is a games market that has been so saturated with fps, which are all basically the same, that they now have to give away cars just to get people interested in Tom Clancy's Battlefield Halo: SOCOM Navy Seal's Medal of whatever, **** you you'll play it 7: Rainbow Super Secret Task Force for Black Call of Ops Ops.

What little novelty Dust offers ought to at least make CCP their money back.
Whyumadtho
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-10-22 12:54:11 UTC
Eve is on PC. Dust is only on PS3.

Does no one else find this idiotic.
Guy Grand
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-10-22 13:03:37 UTC
Whyumadtho wrote:
Eve is on PC. Dust is only on PS3.

Does no one else find this idiotic.


The only mistake I see is on it being brought to you on a Sony product. I understand that Microsoftcore didn't fit how they wanted to do expansions, but damn, just putting it out on PC would have been preferable to purgatory that is PS3. Sony is awful.
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Insidious.
#8 - 2011-10-22 13:30:17 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
As the CEO, Hilmar has failed to follow a key principle that applies to practically any business.

Keep your core business close.

So much is commoditised in today’s technology marketplace when you have a differentiator you treat it like the blood and treasure of a kingdom. You don’t farm it out, you don’t rule from afar.

Dust is an example of failing to heed this principle.

So much was done wrong here it’s amazing that it was ever considered let alone executed as a plan.

Time Zone differences and geographical distances are constraints unable to be changed from day one on this project. Every hour of work effort comes with baked in cost overheads of latency. Why Hilmar would approve an operating model with such obvious flaws as only a couple of core business hours overlapping between Reykjavík and Shanghai and an 8,000KM journey is a mystery.

Separating the key stakeholders in this project means that resolving every issue critical to success or failure is looked at through the lens of flight schedules. CCP Shanghai people are very talented, but are they talented enough to work without a net on the first attempt? It might have felt like good sense to have the Dust team near SOE, but it just sounds like a chance for them to go native.

Dust is well behind time and it is obviously well over budget. Conceptually the idea of Dust has been positively received. However, overall and to be honest the reception of the “first looks” has been fairly underwhelming.

CCP will save buckets of cash sacking one in five of its people. The cost to CCP’s culture and as an employer of choice remains to be seen. Now CCP have the expense of also keeping World of Dust at station keeping so you can keep a whole mess of software capitalised. It will be interesting to see if this game is the DNF for CCP.

The choice around the development platform is also related to this principle. As well as automatically excluding a chunk of existing customers by default CCP have no record of developing PS games. No company experience with SOE in the trenches and will essentially be competing with SOE own PS2. It would seem that CCP decided to take nothing from the well publicised experiences of Valve with Sierra Online.

Dust was supposed to be a paradigm defining entertainment experience. It may end up being good, very good. It is still a long way out though no matter how many have been sacked and redeployed. It has also meant that a wave of “new” EVE customers CCP has craved has now been disappointed as shiny including WiS and all that comes with it becomes pushed back several years.

Hilmar may have made some tough calls to overcome what is obviously a very precarious budget situation but the situation remains. He is still failing the principle of making Dust succeed.

Keep your core business close.


good god man, he's already pretty much admitted all this in his recent interview...

also: it was mainly disagreements with microsoft on why its not coming to PC i think... Sony were the only people to give them the freedom they wanted.

personally I'm thinking about buying a PS3 just for Dust :D
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#9 - 2011-10-22 14:00:10 UTC
Battlefield 3 comes in 4 days. No other shooter will be able to compete.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Princess Coryynn
Disciples of Orva
#10 - 2011-10-22 16:51:47 UTC
I have another line of thought. Dust players are going to be hired by Eve players to defend or take over Planetary Interaction sites? Null Sec and Wormhole sites may be very profitable and worth defending or taking but Empire sites are more than likely not worth the isk to save them.

In my experimentation with P.I. so far if someone attacked my site, I'd let them take it. I certainly would not hire a Dust merc to try to save the site.

Now CCP is already talking about player owned customs offices and are putting that idea into development. This is where they always mess up. In my opinion, P.I. is not even finished yet, or certainly not thought all the way through, but it is off to the races on the next idea that will be half completed and left broken because the next hot project comes along.

CCP could spend the next two years just working on what they have developed so far without introducing any new ideas into the game.

A lot of things are not really that fleshed out. Commodity trading could be improved, Contraband such as drugs, slaves, slaver hounds, etc.

Boosters are sort of broken, to the extent that there is little demand for them, they are semi hard to make, so to me it feels as if it is not finished, or at least not very well thought out.

There are many more examples of things being semi broken or not finished, hybrid weapons, faction warfare, the list continues to grow.

I hope that CCP can just wake up and start polishing what they have.
Oberine Noriepa
#11 - 2011-10-22 17:01:14 UTC
Heimdallofasgard wrote:
good god man, he's already pretty much admitted all this in his recent interview...

also: it was mainly disagreements with microsoft on why its not coming to PC i think... Sony were the only people to give them the freedom they wanted.

personally I'm thinking about buying a PS3 just for Dust :D

You mean the Xbox 360. Microsoft's policies with Xbox Live are very rigid. Other than the marketing deal with Sony, there's nothing stopping CCP from releasing a PC version of Dust 514 somewhere down the line. I really wouldn't be surprised to see some announcement six months after the PS3 release.

∃
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#12 - 2011-10-22 17:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
Princess Coryynn wrote:
I have another line of thought. Dust players are going to be hired by Eve players to defend or take over Planetary Interaction sites? Null Sec and Wormhole sites may be very profitable and worth defending or taking but Empire sites are more than likely not worth the isk to save them.


In my experimentation with P.I. so far if someone attacked my site, I'd let them take it. I certainly would not hire a Dust merc to try to save the site. They take time away from flying and are only marginally profitable.

That said, it will not be about High Sec - and probably not even Low Sec.
It will - in a very soft way - link to 0-Sec according to this feature trailer.

So perhaps we will have a Merc Corp called GoonLandser or something like that there and life goes on as normal.

I ask myself where the "total immersion" stranded on the way there, but this is what we will get.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#13 - 2011-10-22 17:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
They have said straight out that Dust players will be able to join Eve corps and they will share the same chat channels with us in Eve.

I am not looking forward to the chaos that local might become. ;)

Though hopefully, the shared chat channels will not include local.
URDEAD2ME
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2011-10-22 18:22:57 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Nice, thought out, well written post.

Other than that, I think Hilmar already knows that and is seriously trying to fix the prob.

However, we as a community need to mellow out, stop beating up this issue and give CCP a chance to prove themselves.

Let's watch what they do now.



well said sir , this is spot on what needs to happen.
URDEAD2ME
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2011-10-22 18:23:54 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
They have said straight out that Dust players will be able to join Eve corps and they will share the same chat channels with us in Eve.

I am not looking forward to the chaos that local might become. ;)

Though hopefully, the shared chat channels will not include local.



very much dout they will be in local with us i think the chat will be kept to corp and the people int he merc unit.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-22 19:08:16 UTC
Princess Coryynn wrote:
CCP could spend the next two years just working on what they have developed so far without introducing any new ideas into the game.

I'd be happy with that.
T' Elk
Strategically Bad
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2011-10-22 19:28:28 UTC
My xbox has a layer of dust so ******* thick it would make god choke.

~Badposter since FOOOOREEEEEVAAAAAR~ I come back after 2 years to THIS? ~Now 4 years apparently
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#18 - 2011-10-22 22:52:10 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Battlefield 3 comes in 4 days. No other shooter will be able to compete.


And if you run into this guy your alien mutant fix will be filled for weeks.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-22 23:16:57 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Battlefield 3 comes in 4 days. No other shooter will be able to compete.



Too true, sadly for CCP. BF3 owns.
Cur
Back Door Burglars
#20 - 2011-10-22 23:24:29 UTC
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
Schalac wrote:
Battlefield 3 comes in 4 days. No other shooter will be able to compete.



Too true, sadly for CCP. BF3 owns.



But oh how you are wrong!


BF3, and the new modern warfare - are simply CLONES of the previous release.

The only difference is new weapons, new skins/textures, and new maps. Everything else fundamentaly remains the same.


It has been like this for what.... 10 years now? Ever since Battlefield 1942 rocked the Call of Duty 3/Medal of Honor series off the table.


FPS console gamers are truly sick to death of being spoonfed the same **** that's been recolored. They know it's the same ****, and they are disgrunted.


I do not think you realise how much the PS3 community has noticed DUST, and is eagerly awaiting its release to free them from the bonds of "new package same **** and its 10yrs old now so it REALY ******* STINKS"

However - in the mean time - to give themselves something to do - they WILL go out and buy BF3 and the new Modern Warfare - purely to give themselves something to do in the meantime.


Dust will succeed - if it makes it to launch date.
12Next page