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Why missions should stay the way they are
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-12-09 16:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So, it's my fault I don't use missiles against Sansha?
…or drones or close-range turrets.
Yes, it's your fault — you're the one who made the decision.


~5 km range (optimal + falloff) with Scorch M
~7 km range (optimal + falloff) with Barrage M

Very good idea to use when you're webbed and NPCs orbit at 20+ km.
In a mission where incoming dps is around 500 (three times the tanking ability of my active tanked Abso or shield buffer Cane).
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-12-09 16:17:03 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


P.S. Just bought a tengu w/subs from contracts for 250m in jita, not really a marauder but it has got to be better than my pally/vargur now....


Sounds like you need a Golem

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2012-12-09 16:20:03 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
~5 km range (optimal + falloff) with Scorch M
~7 km range (optimal + falloff) with Barrage M

Very good idea to use when you're webbed and NPCs orbit at 20+ km.
There's a difference between “short” and “close”, you know…

…and your decisions are still your own fault.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-12-09 16:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
~5 km range (optimal + falloff) with Scorch M
~7 km range (optimal + falloff) with Barrage M

Very good idea to use when you're webbed and NPCs orbit at 20+ km.
There's a difference between “short” and “close”, you know…

…and your decisions are still your own fault.


Lol

Scorch M is long range ammo with typical range of 22 + 5 km.
Barrage M is long range ammo with typical range of 3,9 + 28 km.

In case you don't know: those ranges I mentioned previously are under 4 TDs.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-12-09 16:43:05 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


P.S. Just bought a tengu w/subs from contracts for 250m in jita, not really a marauder but it has got to be better than my pally/vargur now....


Sounds like you need a Golem


Tell me more on how i should use other Faction's ship to be effective in my space....
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2012-12-09 16:47:03 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


P.S. Just bought a tengu w/subs from contracts for 250m in jita, not really a marauder but it has got to be better than my pally/vargur now....


Sounds like you need a Golem


Tell me more on how i should use other Faction's ship to be effective in my space....


Tell me more about how you listed the Paladin and Vargur, opposing factions ships, as what you would normally use, then come at me about another factions ship.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-12-09 16:47:42 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
“3) The worst part. Tried a few missions. Looks like you get full aggro in every pocket, no matter of triggers. Not sure if that’s bug or feature. In case of the latter… looks like this is the end of RMT botting. Just because it simply kills possibility to run L4 missions using newly created chars flying crap ships. You just won’t have enough tank to get out alive. Also it was funny when I get 5 tacklers on me, one of them turns on scrambler, I start to kill it, in like 10 secs it turns off scrambler and webs me instead, while 2 others start to scram me. I predict bad bad times…”


Boehoe its not easy anymore... Now we need some brains.... To play a game.. urg and again a pve high sec player that can not afk misions anymore....
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-12-09 16:48:47 UTC
Three XL ASB cap transfering Golems. The Blockade should be easy.

Unfortunately I don't have enough crazy friends to actually try that.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-12-09 16:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


P.S. Just bought a tengu w/subs from contracts for 250m in jita, not really a marauder but it has got to be better than my pally/vargur now....


Sounds like you need a Golem


Tell me more on how i should use other Faction's ship to be effective in my space....


Tell me more about how you listed the Paladin and Vargur, opposing factions ships, as what you would normally use, then come at me about another factions ship.


Paladin for blood/sansha missions in Amarr space....since you know, it melts them.
Vargur for that occasional NON sansha/blood missions you get in Amarr space.

Christ, its not like im fighting guristas in Caldari space and can solve everything by fitting sensor backup.

You know something is not right when the ship designed to melt enemies weak vs em/therm with em/therm(and thats the only damage it can do) becomes less effective than some other ship designed for fighting something totally different....
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2012-12-09 16:59:09 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


Paladin for blood/sansha missions in Amarr space....since you know, it melts them.
Vargur for that occasional NON sansha/blood missions you get in Amarr space.

Christ, its not like im fighting guristas in Caldari space and can solve everything by fitting sensor backup.

You know something is not right when the ship designed to melt enemies weak vs em/therm with em/therm(and thats the only damage it can do) becomes less effective than some other ship designed for fighting something totally different....


Hey you're the one that brought up "using another factions ship in your space" when you're already using outright opposing factions ships.

Not that any of that should matter, you use the tool that gets the job done.

If you can't use the Pally or Varg because of Ewar limitations, it sounds like the Golem is the tool for the job because it ignores all that while still doing the job you require, something the super thin tengus are going to have problems with.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2012-12-09 17:01:01 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
[

You know something is not right when the ship designed to melt enemies weak vs em/therm with em/therm(and thats the only damage it can do) becomes less effective than some other ship designed for fighting something totally different....


It is if you ignore the racial ewars that each of those EM/Thermal races are known for using. Unfortunately 0.0 residents know full well that TD's and Neuts come hand in hand with those 2 races.

So you use something that doesn't use guns at all on them.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-12-09 17:02:51 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


Paladin for blood/sansha missions in Amarr space....since you know, it melts them.
Vargur for that occasional NON sansha/blood missions you get in Amarr space.

Christ, its not like im fighting guristas in Caldari space and can solve everything by fitting sensor backup.

You know something is not right when the ship designed to melt enemies weak vs em/therm with em/therm(and thats the only damage it can do) becomes less effective than some other ship designed for fighting something totally different....


Hey you're the one that brought up "using another factions ship in your space" when you're already using outright opposing factions ships.

Not that any of that should matter, you use the tool that gets the job done.

If you can't use the Pally or Varg because of Ewar limitations, it sounds like the Golem is the tool for the job because it ignores all that while still doing the job you require, something the super thin tengus are going to have problems with.


WTB Bhaalgorn that is better at killing Blood Raiders than any other ship
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-12-09 17:05:47 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


Paladin for blood/sansha missions in Amarr space....since you know, it melts them.
Vargur for that occasional NON sansha/blood missions you get in Amarr space.

Christ, its not like im fighting guristas in Caldari space and can solve everything by fitting sensor backup.

You know something is not right when the ship designed to melt enemies weak vs em/therm with em/therm(and thats the only damage it can do) becomes less effective than some other ship designed for fighting something totally different....


Hey you're the one that brought up "using another factions ship in your space" when you're already using outright opposing factions ships.

Not that any of that should matter, you use the tool that gets the job done.

If you can't use the Pally or Varg because of Ewar limitations, it sounds like the Golem is the tool for the job because it ignores all that while still doing the job you require, something the super thin tengus are going to have problems with.



I meant that using the same faction's ships as the space you are in is the always the best/most efficient way, because they were designed like that.
Caldari boats in Caldari space
Minnie ships in Minmatar space
Gallente in Gallente
Amarr in Amarr

I didn't mean it as "eh mah gerd, 1 ship only!11!"

Golem is meant to be jack of all trades but master of none, it's just silly that i HAVE to switch to a Caldari vessel to do missions which were designed for Armor tanking Amarr ships.....
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2012-12-09 17:12:41 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


Golem is meant to be jack of all trades but master of none, it's just silly that i HAVE to switch to a Caldari vessel to do missions which were designed for Armor tanking Amarr ships.....


The design you see is something artificially created by you because on any of those missions you could have used a shield OR armor tanked Domi, or a Nightmare, or any number of other ships that are also capable of dealing EM/Thermal damage, and being armor tanked has nothing to do with it.

My alt has Marauder 5, and has only ever used a Golem to run RF missions....

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-12-09 17:16:32 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


Golem is meant to be jack of all trades but master of none, it's just silly that i HAVE to switch to a Caldari vessel to do missions which were designed for Armor tanking Amarr ships.....


The design you see is something artificially created by you because on any of those missions you could have used a shield OR armor tanked Domi, or a Nightmare, or any number of other ships that are also capable of dealing EM/Thermal damage, and being armor tanked has nothing to do with it.

My alt has Marauder 5, and has only ever used a Golem to run RF missions....


Nightmare? You do know that it uses lasers?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-12-09 17:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:


Golem is meant to be jack of all trades but master of none, it's just silly that i HAVE to switch to a Caldari vessel to do missions which were designed for Armor tanking Amarr ships.....


The design you see is something artificially created by you because on any of those missions you could have used a shield OR armor tanked Domi, or a Nightmare, or any number of other ships that are also capable of dealing EM/Thermal damage, and being armor tanked has nothing to do with it.

My alt has Marauder 5, and has only ever used a Golem to run RF missions....


Thats the problem though.....a ship that can deal 4 types of damage becoming MORE efficient than a specific damage ship AGAINST it's designed enemy.

Also, em/therm resists on shields is just blegh, you are clearly meant to be fighting against expl/kinetic.

Also, NM is a pirate faction BS so it doesn't apply to the main 4 faction formula. Bet it's hella efficient at killing things in Sansha(no i dont mean AMARR) space though....
Codie Dunier
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-12-09 17:23:47 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Also is it now impossible for a new char to do 70% of missions. Confirmed it few hrs ago with a newb friend.

No missions are completely impossible, even for newbies. My main usually brings a newer corp-mate with him on missions, and it works out splendidly (is that even a word?). It just comes down to whether or not the newbie is willing to do as told by the older player. That, and my corp-mates don't want to bother with doing Level 1 and 2 missions since they are having a lot more fun helping in Level 4s, when they get a chance. I haven't heard if low-level missions are too hard for new players, though. My corp-mates don't whine about that. They'd rather see it as a nice challenge.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-12-09 17:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Also, NM is a pirate faction BS so it doesn't apply to the main 4 faction formula. Bet it's hella efficient at killing things in Sansha(no i dont mean AMARR) space though....


Not even there anymore.

Pulse NM is useless against heavy TD'ing (has even less range than max skilled Apoc with pulses).
Tach NM has bad range now since TDs reduce falloff range too. Pretty much only reason it worked previously against TDs was the fact that NPC TDs didn't affect falloff.
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#59 - 2012-12-09 17:49:32 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
My heard bleeds for the people with an ability to not adapt to change.


Having to use passive Drake or Tengu with officer shield booster isn't adapting.

Just go and try BR version of The Blockade with your Drake and you know.
Or Sansha version of The Blockade with any turret ship (other than Mach).


Making your ship better isn't adapting? wth is it then?
If a ship X doesn't work you choose ship Y and so on. It's that easy.



Obviously those characters that can fly many ships will be able to adapt and go forward. I dont think anyone will dispute that. Some lvl 4s are going to require a group effort now or several accounts. Thats the problem I have is that yet again we have made the game a little more hostile to noobs. I dont mind going after RMT at all but this is like trying to drive a nail with a screwdriver. ISK per hr wise, everyone is probably better off mining veldspar. I dont mind the increased challenge of the missions, but make it worth my while. I also dont like the fact that an entire line of ships has been made utterly foolhardy to train for. I saw this writing on the wall for drone jockeys years ago so I picked the chosen race and learned missiles. I suggest leaving things like they are, but increase the reward to justify the effort. People will grumble less and it will more than accomplish the team effort CCP endorses.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#60 - 2012-12-09 17:56:27 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Scorch M is long range ammo with typical range of 22 + 5 km.
Barrage M is long range ammo with typical range of 3,9 + 28 km.
…and there's still a difference between short-range and close-range — you chose he former, not the latter, and it's entirely your fault.