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Information on proposed Destroyer and Battlecruiser Skill changes

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-12-04 07:26:04 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Apparently this message was too confusing and/or obscure.

It was too obscure, but by location and not by content.

That does answer that question though. I imagine it's easier for them to do it that way.

I agree with location and such.

What I really would like to see is something more in game as far as important dev posts and such instead of just isolated in the forums. Everyone knows that a very small percentage of players come to the forums and an optional ticker window that can be resized to something very small would be appreciated. I know some of you like to shout from on top of your soap boxes proclaiming that those who do not have a second monitor for just the forums and murdering their F5 key; in fact deserve to suffer the wrath of the 'lack of knowledge' gods. This line of thinking is a bit on the childish side.

Players need more communication with announcements via in game, as well as on the forums.


I'm sorry but no matter how much CCP tries to put a message right into your face most players disregard it anyway.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Laurinius
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#42 - 2012-12-04 09:08:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

[...]

It's safest however to assume that only full levels will transfer, and you have more than enough time to get all the skills you need before the change if you want all 8 skills at lvl 5.


So this isn't going live before the end of January? It'll take me until January 13th to complete Destroyer V, BC V and all racial cruisers III.
Norgslon Turiak
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-12-04 09:57:10 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Laurinius wrote:
Norgslon Turiak wrote:
What happens with the skill split when I'm 50% towards BC 5 (lets call it "4.5")? Do I get the all racial BC skills to lvl 4 or to lvl 4.5 (ofc asuming I have cruiser 3 for those racial ready).



I would like an answer to this question as well...

I assume they'll give you the same SP per skill that you currently have in the generic skill. So if you're at BC 4.5, you'll have Amarr BC 4.5, Gallente BC 4.5, etc.

It's safest however to assume that only full levels will transfer, and you have more than enough time to get all the skills you need before the change if you want all 8 skills at lvl 5.



Seems logical but I cant find a dev really saying anything about this in particular, just the "if you could fly it before blah blah part"
MAybe I missed it in the massive amount of forum posts going on.

I'm really wondering cause I dont know if I will make it to level5 in time if I wait for a remap that is coming up soon since it is unknown when the changes go live. I hate to be at 98% towards level 5 and found out I could have skilled swomething else those 20 days cause im going to get level 4 BC skills anyway.

Just in case im training towards it anyway but if this information was more clear I could get more out of my training plan.
Gilhelmi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-12-05 00:53:49 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Not giving us a target date for the change is just trolling us. Seriously - this is the second time you've attempted to put us into a panic over this. We have other training needs as well. Not being able to prioritize because you just like messing with us is harassment.


Agreed. I have devoted far too much time to this. Then the only reason I did was I like my options to be open.

Though at least I can get BC to 5 now. I was going to settle for 4and1/2
Gilhelmi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-12-05 01:04:27 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Apparently this message was too confusing and/or obscure.

It was too obscure, but by location and not by content.

That does answer that question though. I imagine it's easier for them to do it that way.

I agree with location and such.

What I really would like to see is something more in game as far as important dev posts and such instead of just isolated in the forums. Everyone knows that a very small percentage of players come to the forums and an optional ticker window that can be resized to something very small would be appreciated. I know some of you like to shout from on top of your soap boxes proclaiming that those who do not have a second monitor for just the forums and murdering their F5 key; in fact deserve to suffer the wrath of the 'lack of knowledge' gods. This line of thinking is a bit on the childish side.

Players need more communication with announcements via in game, as well as on the forums.


Are you being serious? They had a dev blog on it.

Not only that but reading the forums before you log in is always recommended to keep an eye on those *insert your enemy here*.

I swear it take 10 min to get educated.
Mund Richard
#46 - 2012-12-05 01:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Gilhelmi wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Apparently this message was too confusing and/or obscure.
It was too obscure, but by location and not by content.
That does answer that question though. I imagine it's easier for them to do it that way.
I agree with location and such.
What I really would like to see is something more in game as far as important dev posts and such instead of just isolated in the forums. Everyone knows that a very small percentage of players come to the forums and an optional ticker window that can be resized to something very small would be appreciated. I know some of you like to shout from on top of your soap boxes proclaiming that those who do not have a second monitor for just the forums and murdering their F5 key; in fact deserve to suffer the wrath of the 'lack of knowledge' gods. This line of thinking is a bit on the childish side.
Players need more communication with announcements via in game, as well as on the forums.
Are you being serious? They had a dev blog on it.
Not only that but reading the forums before you log in is always recommended to keep an eye on those *insert your enemy here*.
I swear it take 10 min to get educated.

Just two things to add:

1) I do not have a second monitor.
There's a button called Dev Posts.
I check it at work while others take their smoke break, IF I remember. 10 mins a day usually more or less enough just to get a feel of what I need to read at home, if at all. No F5 key murdering required.

2) What question did it not answer? Integer

Or did you mean how they didn't add a timeframe? Wasn't part of the question I was answering I believe.
Half a month or so one CCP member let slip how it's not this year.
If you are not on a remap now, you can totally make it with +4 implants.
Heck, I'm on an Int/mem remap, and I'll still make it in time having only started recently (and no, didn't remap, I'm accepting the extra training time needed)!
If you are on a remap, there were devblogs out on it, that are shown as you log in, so you should have seen it. The toon you post on is like 9 months old, I'd say at least two devblogs mentioned it since then.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Gilhelmi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-12-06 03:19:58 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Gilhelmi wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Apparently this message was too confusing and/or obscure.
It was too obscure, but by location and not by content.
That does answer that question though. I imagine it's easier for them to do it that way.
I agree with location and such.
What I really would like to see is something more in game as far as important dev posts and such instead of just isolated in the forums. Everyone knows that a very small percentage of players come to the forums and an optional ticker window that can be resized to something very small would be appreciated. I know some of you like to shout from on top of your soap boxes proclaiming that those who do not have a second monitor for just the forums and murdering their F5 key; in fact deserve to suffer the wrath of the 'lack of knowledge' gods. This line of thinking is a bit on the childish side.
Players need more communication with announcements via in game, as well as on the forums.
Are you being serious? They had a dev blog on it.
Not only that but reading the forums before you log in is always recommended to keep an eye on those *insert your enemy here*.
I swear it take 10 min to get educated.

Just two things to add:

1) I do not have a second monitor.
There's a button called Dev Posts.
I check it at work while others take their smoke break, IF I remember. 10 mins a day usually more or less enough just to get a feel of what I need to read at home, if at all. No F5 key murdering required.

2) What question did it not answer? Integer

Or did you mean how they didn't add a timeframe? Wasn't part of the question I was answering I believe.
Half a month or so one CCP member let slip how it's not this year.
If you are not on a remap now, you can totally make it with +4 implants.
Heck, I'm on an Int/mem remap, and I'll still make it in time having only started recently (and no, didn't remap, I'm accepting the extra training time needed)!
If you are on a remap, there were devblogs out on it, that are shown as you log in, so you should have seen it. The toon you post on is like 9 months old, I'd say at least two devblogs mentioned it since then.

I sometimes Alt-Tab when I am auto-piloting through HS. In a WH I have tons of time to read and study.
ElectroPulse
DeepSpace Industrial
#48 - 2012-12-09 02:41:27 UTC
Hmmm.... Anyone have any idea whether someone starting to train BC IV and V will have time at this point? (with stock remap and +4s)

My brother has been thinking about resubbing, and I told him this would be a great time because of the BC skill change... Hoping he will have time (would take 33 days for BC V (with lvl3 for all cruisers), then another 9 days for Destroyers, provided he chose to do that).
Mund Richard
#49 - 2012-12-09 02:49:05 UTC
We have no 100% way to be sure until CCP says so.
CCP only stated it won't be this year, and thus all my toons are aiming to finish before 31st of December 23:59, but I'm a born pessimist.

He'll probably make it.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Devaroni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-18 01:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Devaroni
So what is happening to the pre-reqs for skills such as Command Ships? Currently Command Ships require BattleCruisers to V... are there going to be racial command ships?

My assumption is that it will work like the interdictors skill where the ship itself requires (currently) Destroyers to 5, racial frig to 5 and the interdictors skill to 1

Here is my assumption post-patch for select ships

Flycather (Interdictor) Pre-Reqs
- Caldari Frigate V
- Caldari Destroyer V
- Interdictors I

Sabre (Interdictor) Pre-Reqs
- Minmatar Frigate V
- Minmatar Destroyer V
- Interdictors I

Onyx (Heavy Interdictor) Pre-Reqs (seemingly no change in skill requirements)
- Caldari Cruiser V
- - Caldari Frigate IV (pre-req for racial cruisers)
- Heavy Interdictors I

Vulture (Command Ship) Pre-Reqs
- Caldari Cruiser V
- Caldari Battlecruiser V
- Logistics IV
- Command Shps I
- - Warefare Link Specialist IV (primary pre-req for Command Ships)



Is this correct?
Mund Richard
#51 - 2012-12-18 02:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Devaroni wrote:
Vulture (Command Ship) Pre-Reqs
- Caldari Cruiser V
- Caldari Battlecruiser V
- Logistics IV
- Command Shps I
- - Warefare Link Specialist IV (primary pre-req for Command Ships)

Is this correct?

No.

...
Oh, should I go for a longer answer?
Was in a devblog or something.
Tiericided skill requirements won't require any other ship class at V but the T1 racial version and the T2.
In return, they are looking into ways to keep the time to sit in one similar.

...
Which I find silly with the current pre-tiericided T2's state, as T3s take less time to get into, and are quite often more prefered.
...But it may be a Me problem.

Edit: link1. Missing the second half - for now.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Devaroni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-12-18 02:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Devaroni
Mund Richard wrote:
Devaroni wrote:
Vulture (Command Ship) Pre-Reqs
- Caldari Cruiser V
- Caldari Battlecruiser V
- Logistics IV
- Command Shps I
- - Warefare Link Specialist IV (primary pre-req for Command Ships)

Is this correct?

No.

...
Oh, should I go for a longer answer?
Was in a devblog or something.
Tiericided skill requirements won't require any other ship class at V but the T1 version.
In return, they are looking into ways to keep the time to sit in one similar.

...
Which I find silly with the current pre-tiericided T2's state, as T3s take less time to get into, and are quite often more prefered.
...But it may be a Me problem.

Edit: link1. Missing the second half - for now.


Ok so the new assumption would be something along the lines of...

Vulture (Command Ship) Pre-Reqs
- Caldari Battlecruiser V
- Logistics IV or higher
- Command Shps I or higher
- - Warefare Link Specialist IV or higher (primary pre-req for Command Ships)
- Possible other skills to make training time the same

EDIT ** Nvm I see it now
Mund Richard
#53 - 2012-12-18 02:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.

    • Based on his example, Logi IV should be going away as well.
    Unless they tune stuff.

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
    Devaroni
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #54 - 2012-12-18 02:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Devaroni
    Mund Richard wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.

    • Based on his example, Logi IV should be going away as well.
    Unless they tune stuff.


    So has it been stated that these skills are being removed? And if so, that means people will get their SP back to spend on whatever they want? I guess with that example there doesn't seem to be a need for them unless they make with specific to ship role bonuses, but not ship requirements...

    * EDIT * I found some older blog talking about this as well... seems that logi, heavy assault ship, etc skills are still being used, but you just don't need them at 4 (so assuming just at 1, and each level applies new role-bonuses)
    Tyberius Franklin
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #55 - 2012-12-18 03:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
    Devaroni wrote:
    Mund Richard wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.

    • Based on his example, Logi IV should be going away as well.
    Unless they tune stuff.


    So has it been stated that these skills are being removed? And if so, that means people will get their SP back to spend on whatever they want? I guess with that example there doesn't seem to be a need for them unless they make with specific to ship role bonuses, but not ship requirements...

    * EDIT * I found some older blog talking about this as well... seems that logi, heavy assault ship, etc skills are still being used, but you just don't need them at 4 (so assuming just at 1, and each level applies new role-bonuses)

    Where was this? The only time I saw such a change to a tech 2 skill was for exhumers as the ships were tiered while being T2 ships. And even then not as an unlock for another class.

    Also why would there be any SP refund, there are still ships that use the prerequisite class skills?
    Shylari Avada
    Hedion University
    Amarr Empire
    #56 - 2012-12-18 03:11:59 UTC
    Can't believe all these people need to be forcefully coerced to either train BC V or Destroyer V, which are both amazing skills that don't have very long training times (No 20 days isn't a long time).
    Devaroni
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #57 - 2012-12-18 03:29:04 UTC
    Tyberius Franklin wrote:
    Devaroni wrote:
    Mund Richard wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.

    • Based on his example, Logi IV should be going away as well.
    Unless they tune stuff.


    So has it been stated that these skills are being removed? And if so, that means people will get their SP back to spend on whatever they want? I guess with that example there doesn't seem to be a need for them unless they make with specific to ship role bonuses, but not ship requirements...

    * EDIT * I found some older blog talking about this as well... seems that logi, heavy assault ship, etc skills are still being used, but you just don't need them at 4 (so assuming just at 1, and each level applies new role-bonuses)

    Where was this? The only time I saw such a change to a tech 2 skill was for exhumers as the ships were tiered while being T2 ships. And even then not as an unlock for another class.

    Also why would there be any SP refund, there are still ships that use the prerequisite class skills?


    http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129
    Alphea Abbra
    Project Promethion
    #58 - 2012-12-18 03:37:44 UTC
    Shylari Avada wrote:
    Can't believe all these people need to be forcefully coerced to either train BC V or Destroyer V, which are both amazing skills that don't have very long training times (No 20 days isn't a long time).

    Well, judging from the reactions I have seen, which is both a biased and limited sample, so take it with a grain of salt, those who are being coerced are a very strange breed, composed of 3 major brands: Newbies, who might offset their training of core skills to not miss out in 3 months time; alts of established players where the alt may need it "down the road"; and people whose way of thinking I have given up on comprehending.
    The last group is commonly portraited as "not very bright at all".


    Destroyers 5 wasn't the best choice (Bang4Buck-wise) earlier, where you'd get 4 racial ships (Of which 2 were of limited ability) for one skill, but with both destroyer buffs and 4 new destroyers that one skill now gives you plenty of different opportunity. It's like the HAC skill, except you only need racial frigates at 3. You still get access to 8 very different ships with use in a number of different situations.
    Battlecruisers 5 has always been that way, it seems, now more than ever with 12 ships for the price of 3, essentially. And BC are as a whole very used ships in group and generally forgiving ships, both on skillpoints and pricetags.
    I am very glad for the skillpoints I invested, and my non-PvP alt is training BC 5 currently (Destroyer 4+5 following), since if it's needed later it's a hassle to train then rather than now.
    Tyberius Franklin
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #59 - 2012-12-18 03:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
    Devaroni wrote:
    Tyberius Franklin wrote:
    Devaroni wrote:

    So has it been stated that these skills are being removed? And if so, that means people will get their SP back to spend on whatever they want? I guess with that example there doesn't seem to be a need for them unless they make with specific to ship role bonuses, but not ship requirements...

    * EDIT * I found some older blog talking about this as well... seems that logi, heavy assault ship, etc skills are still being used, but you just don't need them at 4 (so assuming just at 1, and each level applies new role-bonuses)

    Where was this? The only time I saw such a change to a tech 2 skill was for exhumers as the ships were tiered while being T2 ships. And even then not as an unlock for another class.

    Also why would there be any SP refund, there are still ships that use the prerequisite class skills?


    http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129


    Devblog wrote:

    Cut needless requirements for tech 2 ships across classes. Tech 2 philosophy is all about specializing into a specific hull and role, thus, requiring players to train for Assault Ships, then Heavy Assault Ships when aiming for Field Command Ships, is quite redundant.

    This says nothing about there being a reduction to lvl 1 for the prerequisite skills but rather indicates the goal is the removal of those prerequisites that are specializations of another ship class. So Command ships wouldn't require the logistics or heavy assault ship skills at all.

    Regarding the T2 ship classes there is no change except for the exhumers class as those ships never had a tier they had to be trained to within their respective skill beyond lvl 1.
    Alphea Abbra
    Project Promethion
    #60 - 2012-12-18 03:41:34 UTC
    Devaroni wrote:
    http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129

    You might want to read that picture again, to make sure you understand it correctly.
    For the Amarr command ships, neigher logistics nor HAC skills will be required, according to the following picture (Taken from the handy explanation in the dev. blog you linked):
    http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Skilltreeafter_1920.jpg

    Logistics ships will still use the logistics skill and get bonuses as it is now, but the fleet command won't use the skill.