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How come null is so empty

First post
Author
Sharon Anne
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#81 - 2012-12-08 20:23:37 UTC
Just a little tweak, Hi-sec stations keep Noc and Meg refined and reprocessed, Low sec stations keep only Meg refined and reprocessed.

This will cause a bottle necks and forced movement. = targets for interdiction.

Another Idea have fuel blocks built in special POS in Null and POS parts only built in low

Again this will cause a bottle necks and forced movement. = targets for interdiction.


This is what war is all about, logistics and interdiction.

CCP needs to hire an real WARLORD and stop thinking PVP. PVP should follow the logistics of movement and bottle necks.

This train of thought should apply to Dust as well and hopefully light the fire of war throughout Dull/Low Sec.

IMHOBig smile

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#82 - 2012-12-08 20:28:27 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
How come null is so empty
Whats going on? Aren't their people roaming around looking for fights?


Because of Falcon.


/someone had to do it.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Zoctrine
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-12-08 20:31:17 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:
There's so many threads about how null is broken, how to fix it, why and what not, however, much like CCP these threads tend to over-complicate what is really very simple, here's 3 changes to vastly improve null:


Make Stations Destructible!

Remove Jump Bridges!

Remove Reinforce Timers!


Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-12-08 21:22:16 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If we had system to system dial in warp like Star Trek or Star Wars it would be the end of the Great Wall of Carebear formed by the gank pipelines and intel channels and the end of safe nullsec.

Get rid of local too and it's the end of botting.


It would also be a crapstorm as gate camps are replaced by combat patrols and nullbears ragequit all over the forums.

Leet PVPers who sit on gates all day killing everything that moved 20 to 1 would have to adapt or die.

This argument you've been making hasn't changed for a long time, but the reality that people who are too afraid to go to null today would still be too afraid to go to null, even with these changes, didn't change either. Especially if local were to be removed as well.

There are already ways to bypass choke points today. Wormholes, for example, is the best one. Jump clones, especially with the use of a Rorqual, is another. Sometimes you'd need to get a covert ops frigate or two in position before you go, but those can escape any camp with ease anyway.

People are afraid to go to null because they fear what's inside, not because they fear the path that leads there. Don't believe me? Go ask some long-time empire carebears why they don't make the move.


Risk/reward. Too much of one, too little of another. Well said.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-12-08 21:28:42 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:
There's so many threads about how null is broken, how to fix it, why and what not, however, much like CCP these threads tend to over-complicate what is really very simple, here's 3 changes to vastly improve null:


Make Stations Destructible!

Remove Jump Bridges!

Remove Reinforce Timers!


So... Null Sec industry becomes even harder while importation and logistics are nigh impossible. Yeah, that will create vibrant sov holding entities capable of fighting. How about you educate yourself before theory-crafting. http://themittani.com/features/creation-and-destruction
Diamond Bull
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-12-08 21:30:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If we had system to system dial in warp like Star Trek or Star Wars it would be the end of the Great Wall of Carebear formed by the gank pipelines and intel channels and the end of safe nullsec.

Get rid of local too and it's the end of botting.


It would also be a crapstorm as gate camps are replaced by combat patrols and nullbears ragequit all over the forums.

Leet PVPers who sit on gates all day killing everything that moved 20 to 1 would have to adapt or die.

This argument you've been making hasn't changed for a long time, but the reality that people who are too afraid to go to null today would still be too afraid to go to null, even with these changes, didn't change either. Especially if local were to be removed as well.

There are already ways to bypass choke points today. Wormholes, for example, is the best one. Jump clones, especially with the use of a Rorqual, is another. Sometimes you'd need to get a covert ops frigate or two in position before you go, but those can escape any camp with ease anyway.

People are afraid to go to null because they fear what's inside, not because they fear the path that leads there. Don't believe me? Go ask some long-time empire carebears why they don't make the move.


You can ask,l but most will make excuses akin to the "null people are mean and shoot us when we go there so i don't go there" you noticed from the poster you replied to.

While I have characters all over EVE, my "main" has been pure null for 4 years, I remain perplexed by how VIDEO GAME SPACE can somehow be daunting enough to keep people who say they "really would go there if only" from going there.

it's simple really, peeople don't go to null for the same exact reasons that don't pvp in the 1st place,they really don't want to and for many that's because they really really don't like to have to make friends, "take orders from others" or don't like even the though of losing pixels in a video game. But they'll make excuses anyway(it must be that the game is broken, it can't possibly be ME!!!), just to protect their egos.

4000 ships dying per day means null sec is as healty as i need it to be. The guy in the sabe who treid to bubble the station in my ratting system (I'd already warped my mach and rattlesnake though, fail bubble) says there are enough people in null sec....



You're not smart.


I don't go to null because I don't want to make friends. I have quite a few friends. I don't PvP because I hate it. It is at best tedious and at worst it sets me back in my progress as I define it. Why can Video Game Space be daunting? Because a lot of people put legitimate effort into Eve. If they go to null and lose everything then that effort becomes wasted. Some people don't care, some people do, and who are you to say one is better than the other?
Peter Tjordenskiold
#87 - 2012-12-08 21:35:47 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Did a 50 jump roam in my caracal and found absolutely 0 people going between gates. Jumped into a busy bottleneck constellation full of ratters and died as expected. Even then though the busiest systems in null have only 60 guys docked and active according to the map. Whats going on? Aren't their people roaming around looking for fights?


You were not in Delve,Providence or Deklein. I can this do too and whine about an empty null.

One tip: It doesnt pay off for any pilot in null sec to run a homedefence just when you or another carebear is arriving.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2012-12-08 21:38:25 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Zoctrine wrote:
There's so many threads about how null is broken, how to fix it, why and what not, however, much like CCP these threads tend to over-complicate what is really very simple, here's 3 changes to vastly improve null:

Make Stations Destructible!

Remove Jump Bridges!

Remove Reinforce Timers!

So... Null Sec industry becomes even harder while importation and logistics are nigh impossible. Yeah, that will create vibrant sov holding entities capable of fighting. How about you educate yourself before theory-crafting. http://themittani.com/features/creation-and-destruction

The secret plan to end all our 0.0 dreams.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#89 - 2012-12-08 21:47:20 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If we had system to system dial in warp like Star Trek or Star Wars it would be the end of the Great Wall of Carebear formed by the gank pipelines and intel channels and the end of safe nullsec.

Get rid of local too and it's the end of botting.


It would also be a crapstorm as gate camps are replaced by combat patrols and nullbears ragequit all over the forums.

Leet PVPers who sit on gates all day killing everything that moved 20 to 1 would have to adapt or die.

This argument you've been making hasn't changed for a long time, but the reality that people who are too afraid to go to null today would still be too afraid to go to null, even with these changes, didn't change either. Especially if local were to be removed as well.

There are already ways to bypass choke points today. Wormholes, for example, is the best one. Jump clones, especially with the use of a Rorqual, is another. Sometimes you'd need to get a covert ops frigate or two in position before you go, but those can escape any camp with ease anyway.

People are afraid to go to null because they fear what's inside, not because they fear the path that leads there. Don't believe me? Go ask some long-time empire carebears why they don't make the move.


QFT. It's ridiculously easy to get into nullsec space. I feel safer jumping into Doril than I do Jita, and for good reason.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#90 - 2012-12-08 21:48:54 UTC
Imports Plus wrote:
Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all


Well, if that's the case, they can all move out and I'll take over. Smile
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#91 - 2012-12-08 23:56:38 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Imports Plus wrote:
Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all


Well, if that's the case, they can all move out and I'll take over. Smile


Despite all the problems with 0.0 there is something to be said for being able to shoot someone without having to deal with the police and all the tediously arcane mechanics of criminal flagging in highsec.

.

Imports Plus
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-12-09 00:01:55 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Well, if that's the case, they can all move out and I'll take over. Smile


There was once a dream that was Farms and Fields. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile. And I fear that it will not survive the winter.
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-12-09 00:46:34 UTC
Samahiel Sotken wrote:
Stuff


That sounds to me like whining, moaning and/or squealing... In fact checking your posting history it pretty much is the norm, you whine too much, maybe eve is not for you!

As far as the link goes, mate, I don't spend my time paying attention to anyone that only see's their end and advocates the destruction of others play style.

Interesting that your bunch only wants difficulty for HS and spews a lot of nonsense on the forums about EvE is hard place and people need to tough it up, however, when its about making NS harder to defend and not a cake walk as it is today you guys... Well, you girls whine a lot...

Null needs to be harder, make it so that if you want some space be prepared to defend it, in order to defend it you need to be close enough of your back yard, you want to go to other areas and mess with others? Fine, just be prepared for someone else mess with yours while you're out...

Game mechanics as they are make it too easy for big power blocks to, both, exist and be maintained, put my suggestion in place and you will have flocks of small corps/alliance all over NS claiming their space and being able to hold it.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-12-09 01:40:05 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Why bother to engage in actual nullsec PvP when your killboards can look so awesome from highsec ganking? Those guys dont shoot back, and your not going to get a super-massive capital fleet titan bridged onto your face.


Mostly because most actual PvPers do it for fun (as in, they look for good fights against competent opponents where victory actually brings satisfaction and loss brings respect).

Killboards are meaningless, good hunts and combat is what PvPers strive for, not K/Ds.


yeah right.

Hows your "Tower Bridge sale" going ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#95 - 2012-12-09 02:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
The fact remains that there's very little reason to be in 0.0 in the first place, unless you're one of the few people who directly benefit from moons/fees/taxes, aka the "overlords." For the average guy in the average alliance, the routine is rat > buy pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > lose pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > repeat. There are also people whom I've come to all "free riders," aka the ones that rarely contribute to alliance ops but are the first ones on after downtime to cycle every belt in every system for officer spawns, and also the ones to complain about you to the leadership when they catch you running one of "their" 10/10 complexes.

You know, ever since Apocrypha came out, I never looked back on permanently leaving null. All I do now, when I'm active, is high-sec and wormhole pvp. And for the record, I literally started out in null when I began my EVE career back in 2004. My friend dragged me to that crappy space north of Placid, and then we killed some rats and mindlessly jumped about. That was like my second day in the game. But once the initial sense of awe was gone, the experience kept getting more boring and mundane with every passing day.

Null-sec, at best, is for people who like routines. Log in at a set time, take part in a roaming gang, mine/rat for a bit, and log off. Sometimes, there's a CTA. I wasn't even unfortunate enough to have been part of many bad null-sec alliances (I look on my time in Brick rather fondly, for example). It's the same thing each time. Capital ships didn't help the situation either.

Meanwhile, as an empire/WH pvper, things are almost always rather hectic and refreshing. Well, they were until Inferno, but that's a different discussion. Each war target presents something new. Sometimes, targets move 40 jumps to try and escape, forcing me to travel and deploy to completely new areas of space. Sometimes they hire allies, and instead of being the hunter, I become the hunted. Sometimes they run off to a wormhole, giving me the opportunity to perform an eviction. Sometimes they join null-sec alliances, forcing me to become a roadblock for their relocation efforts. Sometimes my own wormhole gets attacked, forcing me to defend it, or scuttle and take up a scorched earth policy. All of these activities are punctuated by mercenary contracts of all sorts, ganking, baiting, stealing, et cetera.

I'm a null-sec vet, and I honestly feel like it has nothing to offer me. Especially not after 2009. Between high-sec wars and wormholes (both for pvp and moneymaking), I have all my bases covered.

Maybe the real problem with null-sec is that it's obsolete.

PS: I notice that some of the best null-sec alliances don't just do null-sec stuff. Something to think about.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-12-09 15:55:51 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The fact remains that there's very little reason to be in 0.0 in the first place, unless you're one of the few people who directly benefit from moons/fees/taxes, aka the "overlords." For the average guy in the average alliance, the routine is rat > buy pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > lose pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > repeat.

There is nothing else to do in 0.0 other than rat, and join the blob to prevent some other poor sap from ratting and taking their space and moons to make your "overlords" richer. You could mine, but really why; "Oh look I'm making ~13 mill an hour verses those scrubs in Empire scrabbling for ~10 mill an hour." You could be an industrialist, but if there is a roaming gang within twenty jumps you are not going to move your freighter full of minerals from the refining station system ( where you just melted down a bunch of 425mm rails, because there is not enough tritanium and pyerite in the stuff that is mined localy ) to the manufacturing station system. It would be simpler to just move it to a manufacturing POS in the refining system, but you won't be granted roles because you might be a spy and shut down all the manufacturing jobs, and it is still cheeper to just buy everything in Jita and Jumpfreighter it directly to your main trade system anyway.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#97 - 2012-12-10 04:29:56 UTC
Working as intended.

/thread

Seriously though, there is no incentive to permanently go to null just because there's nothing better/more interesting there.
Quote:
A comprehensive list of things to do in Bearsec:

a.) Sit at Titan all evening, waiting to get bridged.

b.) Sit at Gate all evening.

c.) Get blobed
c1.) Rat and c.)
c2.) Mine and c.)
c3.) Run pirate epic arc and c.)
c4.) Exploration and c.)

d.) Get yelled at by a 10 year drunktard FC that happens to be unemployed for 9 years. Proud of his 2003 char.

e.) Get mouthed of in local by a l33t a$$ PvPster ready to hit puberty in 3 years.

f.) Call people spies.

g.) Be called a spy.

h.) All of the above.


Ironically, the current state is a result of players lobbying for more easymode with every update. To get this straight, I don't hold a gripe against any of the big 00 coalitions. In fact, they found a way to expoit the sandbox in the best way possible for them. Yes, there's people that are scamming f*cks and bloobing pu**ies but if you are bothered by that Eve may just not be for you. It's not like you're forced to do one thing only.

In the end it's up to CCP to get a grip on what's wrong and then fix it. Highsec is more isk/hour if you add in losses for most professions and as Destiny Corrupted already elaborated, WH and Highsec PvP tends to be more interesting in terms of at least getting fights without inb4blob.
Unless there's some serious changes in the pipeline TQ will become just like Serenity and people in 00 can finally live in peace. GG... I guess.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#98 - 2012-12-10 04:37:40 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The fact remains that there's very little reason to be in 0.0 in the first place, unless you're one of the few people who directly benefit from moons/fees/taxes, aka the "overlords." For the average guy in the average alliance, the routine is rat > buy pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > lose pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > repeat.

There is nothing else to do in 0.0 other than rat, and join the blob to prevent some other poor sap from ratting and taking their space and moons to make your "overlords" richer.

But blobbing is so fun!

You can come on GENERAL DISCUSSION and see people cry about how the blob (you were in) needs to be nerfed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Bingo Skor
SunKing Vanguard
#99 - 2012-12-10 05:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bingo Skor
I'm pretty new and have been in 0.0 for 26 days. I think lowsec is overall a much tougher place to be. In null there is more money to be made if you're low in skills (PI, for example, on a few planets can bring in 30mil/week easily).

Biggest issues are neuts everywhere (who really don't do much unless you screw up big time) and a good chance your alliance has a CTA just about every day. It's great if you have the cash to blow on new ships every day but a poor soul like myself can really only watch from the sidelines (not to mention my tackler is there for entertainment purposes only and make a quick booming noise in minute 2 as it blows up).
Nex apparatu5
Blackwood Co.
#100 - 2012-12-10 05:35:58 UTC
I never got the whole "waaaa CTAs" and "waaa I don't have enough isk" arguments. Most competent nullsec alliances got rid of CTAs long ago, and will fully reimburse you for PvP losses in fleets. I had my reasons for leaving null, but neither of those were part of my decision.