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EVE Online: Incarna 1.1.2 Issues

First post First post
Author
Jubal Solerio
Penumbra Exploration
#161 - 2011-10-21 07:57:09 UTC
Window resizing issue (cleared cache, reset defaults, no change)

Intermitant warp tunel effect though thats not a new thing

Persistant tractor beam & salvager sounds in missions even with the turrets deactivated (Noctis)

System:
-Win 7/ Sapphire graphics card-










el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2011-10-21 08:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: el alasar
CCP Orion wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Nicholai Thomasovich wrote:
People posted in the test forum that it was happening to them..


I'm beginning to see just how little the opinions of testers mean to them.


The opinions of players investing their own time in helping us improve the game means the world to us. The issue here is that for specific client side bugs, in this case the window location code, erroneous behaviour can be tough to verify/reproduce. This is because you guys have us outnumbered and are running on more diverse hardware. As CCP Gangleri detailed earlier in this thread the window placement bug, was reproducible in house but in a more benign form, thus we decided to go ahead with the patch.
A fix for this issue is coming next tuesday, and a refactoring of the window position code is coming in the winter release.


it would be nice if you also commented on my somewhat longer previous post.

i actually believe that you drastically need to change the way you handle bugs: IF there is a KNOWN bug, FIX the bug FIRST, dont roll out the update or new functionality. as you had to admit and as we all see now, you cannot forsee how many people will be affected by a bug. people can wait a week longer for sure for new things to come, but they get mad (for good reason) when they see new bugs introduced (that are not necessary imoh).

if window layout (concisely remembering previous state) is so hard and difficult to do you might earn some understanding if you explained some details how it is done and what actually caused the problem. i believe the community will put a finger into this bug and will want to know what has been the root cause for this. lets see if this isnt in the end just some lazy programming and if you had the courage to admit it.

your CEO has stated "put quality first"** - this means dont roll out bugs to production environment, dont make a risk assessment on the bug, just fix it first. imagine some business / banking software had a hard to find bug, and every 1 wire transfer out of 1 million was performed erroneous, it is just unacceptable - even more rolling it out if you KNEW there was a "dormant" bug.

THIS MENTALITY OF YOURS HOW TO HANDLE BUGS HAS TO BE ESCALATED TO TOP MANAGEMENT. this kind of ignorance and arrogance is becoming unbearable.

let me give another constructive suggestion to your problem of doing QA. for sure it is hard to find a bug on sisi when only a few players are using it (compared to tranquility, and what are you suppsed to do alone in a static sandbox). how about you do the following:
- announce the availability of a patch, ready to be tested on a new "quality first" test system
- freeze this patch level on the new test server
- give people 2 million free skillpoints (on test server) as incentive to go there and test something out
- even more, maybe give people about 24k free permanent SP on tranquility as another incentive to do QA for you. or increase skilling rate on tranquality to e.g. factor 1.5 for the time you spend on new test server to find bugs.
- keep the test system runnning until the patch has been proved ok and rolled out into production, then take it down

**actually i dont find the source right now, please correct me if i had a wrong impression here about the CEO's views. please notice how much the community values Commit to excellence (CSM) - competing with new functionality and other features! ( July 2011 Prioritization Crowdsourcing).

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

Partsking
New Eden Marshals Service
#163 - 2011-10-21 14:44:43 UTC
Jubal Solerio wrote:
Window resizing issue (cleared cache, reset defaults, no change)

Intermitant warp tunel effect though thats not a new thing




Ditto this. XP and Win 7 installs across multiple clients.


Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#164 - 2011-10-21 15:55:47 UTC
CCP Bella Bee wrote:
We are working on a fix for the overview issue which we are aiming to get out in the coming days. In the meantime there are workarounds outlined in this thread that have worked for some people. And believe me, we're just as frustrated as you are that we didn't catch this in testing. I know it's hard to believe when you see it happen every time you dock or undock, but it's the nature of these things that sometimes they only manifest under conditions that don't occur in our test environment..


you know.. somehow i doubt that, I tried every one of thsoe workarounds.. nothing works. Tried clearing all the settings and had to spend quite some time reorginizing my bookmarks again (oh what fun!!!! all those jamming spots, below, above, behind, in front of every station and gate).

Seriously I am reaaaaaaaaallyyyy annoyed... "oh its benign bug.. lets roll it out" pretty much PROVES that you are not as frustrated as we are.

Bah, why do i even bother with this game.
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#165 - 2011-10-21 16:39:22 UTC
el alasar wrote:
CCP Orion wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Nicholai Thomasovich wrote:
People posted in the test forum that it was happening to them..


I'm beginning to see just how little the opinions of testers mean to them.


The opinions of players investing their own time in helping us improve the game means the world to us. The issue here is that for specific client side bugs, in this case the window location code, erroneous behaviour can be tough to verify/reproduce. This is because you guys have us outnumbered and are running on more diverse hardware. As CCP Gangleri detailed earlier in this thread the window placement bug, was reproducible in house but in a more benign form, thus we decided to go ahead with the patch.
A fix for this issue is coming next tuesday, and a refactoring of the window position code is coming in the winter release.


it would be nice if you also commented on my somewhat longer previous post.

i actually believe that you drastically need to change the way you handle bugs: IF there is a KNOWN bug, FIX the bug FIRST, dont roll out the update or new functionality. as you had to admit and as we all see now, you cannot forsee how many people will be affected by a bug. people can wait a week longer for sure for new things to come, but they get mad (for good reason) when they see new bugs introduced (that are not necessary imoh).

if window layout (concisely remembering previous state) is so hard and difficult to do you might earn some understanding if you explained some details how it is done and what actually caused the problem. i believe the community will put a finger into this bug and will want to know what has been the root cause for this. lets see if this isnt in the end just some lazy programming and if you had the courage to admit it.

your CEO has stated "put quality first"** - this means dont roll out bugs to production environment, dont make a risk assessment on the bug, just fix it first. imagine some business / banking software had a hard to find bug, and every 1 wire transfer out of 1 million was performed erroneous, it is just unacceptable - even more rolling it out if you KNEW there was a "dormant" bug.

THIS MENTALITY OF YOURS HOW TO HANDLE BUGS HAS TO BE ESCALATED TO TOP MANAGEMENT. this kind of ignorance and arrogance is becoming unbearable.

let me give another constructive suggestion to your problem of doing QA. for sure it is hard to find a bug on sisi when only a few players are using it (compared to tranquility, and what are you suppsed to do alone in a static sandbox). how about you do the following:
- announce the availability of a patch, ready to be tested on a new "quality first" test system
- freeze this patch level on the new test server
- give people 2 million free skillpoints (on test server) as incentive to go there and test something out
- even more, maybe give people about 24k free permanent SP on tranquility as another incentive to do QA for you. or increase skilling rate on tranquality to e.g. factor 1.5 for the time you spend on new test server to find bugs.
- keep the test system runnning until the patch has been proved ok and rolled out into production, then take it down

**actually i dont find the source right now, please correct me if i had a wrong impression here about the CEO's views. please notice how much the community values Commit to excellence (CSM) - competing with new functionality and other features! ( July 2011 Prioritization Crowdsourcing).


Bravo!

What did you say about CODE?

RawKrung
Ingenuus Sidera
#166 - 2011-10-21 16:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: RawKrung
I had two problems: not spinning ship and windows resizing.

I've resolved first problem clearing all settings, but very annoyed by reconfigure all the shortcuts.

The problem about windows resizing is:
when docking, windows line of "Selected Item" and "Overview" is still there when "Station" window appears. They are on the same line, so, because the sum of three height is bigger than screen height resolution, there is some function that try to fit the three windows inside the screen, resizing it.

Solution: remove that function

I know that you want help us, but sometimes helps is worst than the problem. People are enough intelligent to resize their windows to see what they need. If windows are one over another, just let where they are.

The quick solution to this, just to get stable windows position, is to move "Selected Item" and "Overview", a bit aside from the border, so they are no more on the same line of "Station". If you need help, can contact me ingame.

To all Devs: I really appreciate if you reply my post and tell me what do you think about.

Thanks
Hormus
Veria Ltd.
#167 - 2011-10-21 17:21:25 UTC
Now it's been three days since last patch, 3 downtimes to fix certain things.
And first of all, the problems of functionality - the windows docking bug.
But nothing happened. Why?

I was expecting it to be fixed quickly, more so when I realized the problem was very specific and well known - station info and overview windows are for a short time co-existent, and for a split-second during docking and undocking they try to snap on each other (I managed to see it, overview window snapping on bottom of station info window) but not always, it would seem.

But noone fixed it! Is it that difficult? Why?

And it happens only on ship spinning, not on CQ (wouldn'nt know, I don't ever load it).

What happened? CCP decided grudgingly to give us back spinning ships, but doesn't care if it is bugged? Does CCP see it as a kind of punishment for not using CQ? Or they are determined not to give one workhour in something that is not immediately connected to vain items? Who needs monocles when he can enjoy his ship spinning? Or the implementation of ship spinning is so badly, quickly, hastily and cheaply made that it is natural to have lots of bugs? Perhaps.

Or is it something else? Perhaps the staff fired, where the ones able to communicate upwards the real demands of the players, and now all that will happen is what marketing division will say we like? Maybe marketing ppl say now, 'oh come on, it's nothing important, look we cannot even reproduce it properly, there are very few players that are affected, and many of them are probably lying out of spite'. Maybe.

Or perhaps, this bug is very difficult to be fixed. The simple sequence of docking, like '1. Close overview window. 2. Open station info window' can't be followed: time-dilation and all these time-sharing marvels we hear, just seem to make the client don't know whether it is in space or not, if it should close windows or not, etc. And we expect fleet fights to be unbugged?
Perhaps.

I'm sick of resizing windows on every dock and every undock. I don't want any workaround, and I don't want to reset and rearrange all my windows on all my accounts and on all the computers that I play with. I want a solution, clean and complete.

I don't know where CCP is really heading, when someone makes the same mistakes over and over again you start to think they are not mistakes after all.

I'm seriously thinking of starting an account on a similar RPG, just in case CCP's management finally manages to kill EVE.
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#168 - 2011-10-21 18:05:40 UTC
I have noticed when docking into hanger, just before the hanger enviroment loads when you can still see the nebula background several small windows appear the middle of the screen, the top window does not have a title or anything distinguishable but all the windows are the size of a cargohold window shrunk to mininum. I have been trying to get a screenshot but its not easy, sometimes there is only one window other times there are several all stacked.

Obviously its not an issue but it might be a usefull clue related to other problems.

RawKrung
Ingenuus Sidera
#169 - 2011-10-21 18:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: RawKrung
Adrian Dixon wrote:
I have noticed when docking into hanger, just before the hanger enviroment loads when you can still see the nebula background several small windows appear the middle of the screen, the top window does not have a title or anything distinguishable but all the windows are the size of a cargohold window shrunk to mininum. I have been trying to get a screenshot but its not easy, sometimes there is only one window other times there are several all stacked.

Obviously its not an issue but it might be a usefull clue related to other problems.


you can take a video with CamStudio, but i think are selected item, overview and station windows
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#170 - 2011-10-21 18:44:41 UTC
RawKrung wrote:

you can take a video with CamStudio, but i think are selected item, overview and station windows

Thats a good idea, i will give it go with fraps.
Xintri Ra'Virr
Yamaguchi-Gumi
#171 - 2011-10-21 20:51:15 UTC
CCP FIX WINDOW RESIZING BUG !!!!!

IT"S SO FUC*** ANNOYING!!!!!!

THIS DAMN BUG CAN KILL IN LOWSEC FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!!
Stigman Zuwadza
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#172 - 2011-10-21 22:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Stigman Zuwadza
When I 'check' and 'unchecked' the 'Load Station Environment' it has no effect.

I receive the message saying it will take effect the next time I dock but it never does.

I'm not really a fan of the spinning ship (is it supposed to spin on its own?), I was happy with the static CQ background.

Gimme it back please.

*FIXED* ....erm finally noticed the 'Enter Quarters' button. Tend to have a window there which obsured it for hrs so didn't notice it. Lol

*UNFIXED* ...once in the CQ I then clicked the 'Enter Hanger', however the 'Enter Quaters' button has now vanished. consistency ftw. Straight

I am also having the problem of my windows resetting / seemingly appear in odd placements. Becoming very annoying. X

It's broken and it's been broken for a long time and it'll be broken for some time to come.

Hormus
Veria Ltd.
#173 - 2011-10-22 06:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hormus
From Hilmar's interview with Eurogamer:

"We're really focused on making kick-ass Eve expansions..."
"Now we're really focused on product value for Eve..."

Stand up to your words!
Lupus Caeli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2011-10-22 07:16:07 UTC
Leave ship when in my tengu and it's the only ship in station does not work ... had to switch on the CQ crap to get out of thwe ship
disasteur
Tellcomtec Industries.
#175 - 2011-10-22 08:03:42 UTC
el alasar wrote:
CCP Orion wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Nicholai Thomasovich wrote:
People posted in the test forum that it was happening to them..


I'm beginning to see just how little the opinions of testers mean to them.


The opinions of players investing their own time in helping us improve the game means the world to us. The issue here is that for specific client side bugs, in this case the window location code, erroneous behaviour can be tough to verify/reproduce. This is because you guys have us outnumbered and are running on more diverse hardware. As CCP Gangleri detailed earlier in this thread the window placement bug, was reproducible in house but in a more benign form, thus we decided to go ahead with the patch.
A fix for this issue is coming next tuesday, and a refactoring of the window position code is coming in the winter release.


it would be nice if you also commented on my somewhat longer previous post.

i actually believe that you drastically need to change the way you handle bugs: IF there is a KNOWN bug, FIX the bug FIRST, dont roll out the update or new functionality. as you had to admit and as we all see now, you cannot forsee how many people will be affected by a bug. people can wait a week longer for sure for new things to come, but they get mad (for good reason) when they see new bugs introduced (that are not necessary imoh).

if window layout (concisely remembering previous state) is so hard and difficult to do you might earn some understanding if you explained some details how it is done and what actually caused the problem. i believe the community will put a finger into this bug and will want to know what has been the root cause for this. lets see if this isnt in the end just some lazy programming and if you had the courage to admit it.

your CEO has stated "put quality first"** - this means dont roll out bugs to production environment, dont make a risk assessment on the bug, just fix it first. imagine some business / banking software had a hard to find bug, and every 1 wire transfer out of 1 million was performed erroneous, it is just unacceptable - even more rolling it out if you KNEW there was a "dormant" bug.

THIS MENTALITY OF YOURS HOW TO HANDLE BUGS HAS TO BE ESCALATED TO TOP MANAGEMENT. this kind of ignorance and arrogance is becoming unbearable.

let me give another constructive suggestion to your problem of doing QA. for sure it is hard to find a bug on sisi when only a few players are using it (compared to tranquility, and what are you suppsed to do alone in a static sandbox). how about you do the following:
- announce the availability of a patch, ready to be tested on a new "quality first" test system
- freeze this patch level on the new test server
- give people 2 million free skillpoints (on test server) as incentive to go there and test something out
- even more, maybe give people about 24k free permanent SP on tranquility as another incentive to do QA for you. or increase skilling rate on tranquality to e.g. factor 1.5 for the time you spend on new test server to find bugs.
- keep the test system runnning until the patch has been proved ok and rolled out into production, then take it down

**actually i dont find the source right now, please correct me if i had a wrong impression here about the CEO's views. please notice how much the community values Commit to excellence (CSM) - competing with new functionality and other features! ( July 2011 Prioritization Crowdsourcing).


i bump this post because it says it all, verry well put and writen!
PaulTheWise
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2011-10-22 10:58:03 UTC
What does pinning do? There is not a single difference I can find except for changing the alpha transparency? I can still move / resize / dock / stack... a pinned window like an unpinned one.

Reason I'm asking is because changing the pinned-state on my station services appeared to have fixed the windows moving themselves. This was, however, false alarm.

Pre-amble: I've pressed both 'Clear all cache files' and 'Reset to default window positions'-buttons. This did not change the behaviour, as I did the tests below both before and after using those.

There is some sort of relation between "station services" and "dones/overview/selected item" it seems, but only if they overlap. If there's no overlap (like dragging station services to the left hand side, normally all 4 windows + ships are docked on the right hand side) I can move everything and it stays put. I haven't tried all permutations with pinned and unpinned, but pinning doesn't seem to matter.

From now on, if I say 'any window/anything', I mean those 4 troublesome windows; the other windows (chat, or even 'ships', which has an 'overlap' with the drones-window in space) don't seem to be a factor in this.

I've been dragging, resizing and generally experimenting with the windows. I already mentioned overlap; if there is none (between the station services and the windows in space, so it's more of a ghost-overlap) there is no problem, I can move everything the way I wish and it stays put.

However, if they overlap, things remain stable as long as I don't change anything. If I put the Selected Item / Overview / Drones where I want them, dock and leave the station services window alone (even though my OCD tells me to put it back where it belongs), I can undock and find my Selected Item / Overview / Drones where I want them. This is 100% repeatable, both ways; if I don't change anything in one of the screens, EVE will not do anything to the window(s) in the other screen.

I hope to have found some clue for the developers because this is quit annoying :P
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2011-10-22 12:01:37 UTC
PaulTheWise wrote:
I hope to have found some clue for the developers because this is quit annoying :P
It is probably a typo, but this is probably how many people feel - so annoying to quit Cry. and most players dont visit the forums to complain or look for help/workarounds.

I got overview jumping quite fixed by setting the snap distance to "dont snap". maybe, dear CCP, you should put this information in the news section on the right in the character selection screen just after logging in to eve.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

oematoema
The Muppet Show
#178 - 2011-10-22 12:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
It's always the same: new patch, new feedback thread that's linked from the front page, maybe some replies from CCP people for a couple of days (or not), and then...complete and utter silence.

How many people have to get fired from your company before you understand that it is exactly this kind of behaviour that is causing people to unsub and leave EVE. Take a look at my signature. I assume these profound words are still true. I understand that you can't have employees answering every single question and replying every post on this forum, but for ****'s sake: YOU created this thread and the feedback thread yourselves, which IMHO means that you should spend at least some time every once and a while (daily?) to read the responses in those threads and reply to the numerous intelligent and informative posts and maybe even the not-so intelligent posts.

And now the obligatory profanity filter evasion to at least try to provoke some kind of reply, although even that didn't work anymore in the feedback thread of the 1.1.1 patch:

Please do not evade the profanity filter. Spitfire

Thank you.

Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.

Xintri Ra'Virr
Yamaguchi-Gumi
#179 - 2011-10-22 12:30:00 UTC
OK guys i've found temporary solution for that nasty window rescaleing/moveing bug.

All you have to do is to minimize Item selection window and Overview window BEFORE you dock at station.
Next time you undock all will be on its positions.

Cheers
prstuoko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2011-10-22 13:32:18 UTC
When will u fix the damn client update ?
Cant be downloaded .. server is not responding when it tries to dl.. so plx either make it manual dl for now or screw yourselves.
Why i pay for this game? to have u **** up things and not say a word about fuckups?
Its being written in forum already few times and not a single response to it or fix coming.
I even reinstalled eve and still same **** happens - there is client - click to dl - i try and it just hangs in there without dling anything. If u cant figure it out reroll it or do manual dl available. Use brain once. EvilEvilEvil