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New bounty system defies logic

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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#1 - 2012-12-08 11:09:38 UTC
Why would you willingly place a bounty on someones head without the option of some form of anonymity, especially in a universe where aggression is the norm?

Its like walking up to a guy with a gun, and telling him that you just hired someone to come and shoot him.

There should be ways to do anonymous bounties, as well as a way for bounties players to "cheat" the system to find out who they are. Relaying on a player ran anonymous bounty system, is a crap idea for those who might suggest it.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2012-12-08 11:13:36 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Why would you willingly place a bounty on someones head without the option of some form of anonymity, especially in a universe where aggression is the norm?

Its like walking up to a guy with a gun, and telling him that you just hired someone to come and shoot him.

There should be ways to do anonymous bounties, as well as a way for bounties players to "cheat" the system to find out who they are. Relaying on a player ran anonymous bounty system, is a crap idea for those who might suggest it.



There are players already offering an anonymous bounty service.

And it's not a "crap" idea.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-08 11:14:56 UTC
I sort of have to agree on this point to be honest.

The same goes for killmails. Why should the target know that the killmail he generated by attacking someone else has been sold and more importantly to whom it has been sold?

Consequences. I really wonder what happened to that word.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-12-08 11:22:35 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
I sort of have to agree on this point to be honest.

The same goes for killmails. Why should the target know that the killmail he generated by attacking someone else has been sold and more importantly to whom it has been sold?

Consequences. I really wonder what happened to that word.




It could be argued that the consequence of placing a bounty on someone is that they are aware of who placed the bounty.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#5 - 2012-12-08 11:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Malcanis wrote:


And it's not a "crap" idea.


Relaying on player ran programs to compensate for a design oversight, is always a bad idea. Kind of why they needed to code the bounty system in the first place.

As for consequences sure, that's why there should be a option for people to find the names at a cost.

Edit: Totally thought Type40s post was to lock it.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-12-08 11:31:11 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
I sort of have to agree on this point to be honest.

The same goes for killmails. Why should the target know that the killmail he generated by attacking someone else has been sold and more importantly to whom it has been sold?

Consequences. I really wonder what happened to that word.




It could be argued that the consequence of placing a bounty on someone is that they are aware of who placed the bounty.


Yes, but the thing is, if you are found out by whatever means then the same could happen to you, right? Right now people are just putting bounties for fun and as a means to play with a new toy, but later on people should start think a bit about "Why did I get the bounty and who could the culprit be?"

At the very least have the best of both worlds and let anonymous bounty placements become an isk sink - say you have to pay 2x or even up to 5x in addition if you want to place an anonymous bounty. So for a 100k bounty you'd pay 500k. That way the anonymous placer would also have to think about the economical consequences.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-12-08 11:39:01 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


And it's not a "crap" idea.


Relaying on player ran programs to compensate for a design oversight, is always a bad idea. Kind of why they needed to code the bounty system in the first place.

As for consequences sure, that's why there should be a option for people to find the names at a cost.



Replacing player interaction with a game mechanic could just as easily be seen as a bad idea. The bottom line is, that the money to pay the bounty has to come from someones account, so it's only natural that info is easily available to everyone. If you want to hide it, you can use an intermediary to put up the bounty. What you need to explain is why CCP should replace those intermediaries with a game mechanic.
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
#8 - 2012-12-08 11:57:50 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Why would you willingly place a bounty on someones head without the option of some form of anonymity, especially in a universe where aggression is the norm?

Its like walking up to a guy with a gun, and telling him that you just hired someone to come and shoot him.

There should be ways to do anonymous bounties, as well as a way for bounties players to "cheat" the system to find out who they are. Relaying on a player ran anonymous bounty system, is a crap idea for those who might suggest it.


Happy news. There is a way to make bounty "anonymous". Create alt character, move money from main char to alt char and put bounty with alt char. Noone knows who this alt char is.

Mikhem

Mikhem

Link library to EVE music songs.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#9 - 2012-12-08 12:02:13 UTC
They're called alts.

yk
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#10 - 2012-12-08 12:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Destination SkillQueue wrote:


Replacing player interaction with a game mechanic could just as easily be seen as a bad idea. The bottom line is, that the money to pay the bounty has to come from someones account, so it's only natural that info is easily available to everyone. If you want to hide it, you can use an intermediary to put up the bounty. What you need to explain is why CCP should replace those intermediaries with a game mechanic.


Coding the bounty system in the first place was to sidestepped player interaction. So what makes you think favoring player interaction over game mechanic will work this time around. I don't see how its "natural" for information about paying Concord(I'm guessing) a sum of money to be a broker for the killing of someone be made public.

Mikhem wrote:

Happy news. There is a way to make bounty "anonymous". Create alt character, move money from main char to alt char and put bounty with alt char. Noone knows who this alt char is.

Mikhem


More reason to add it in. The use of throw away alts will make any outside player interaction redundant.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-08 12:05:24 UTC
Any suggestion that involves alts is the worst kind of suggestion.

Just saying.
Doddy
Excidium.
#12 - 2012-12-08 12:13:30 UTC
But i want people i put bounty on to know i did it .....
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-08 12:16:27 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


And it's not a "crap" idea.


Relaying on player ran programs to compensate for a design oversight, is always a bad idea. Kind of why they needed to code the bounty system in the first place.

As for consequences sure, that's why there should be a option for people to find the names at a cost.

Edit: Totally thought Type40s post was to lock it.


So... player-generated content = crap idea?

If you want hand-holding, WoW is that way ==>>

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2012-12-08 12:17:10 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


And it's not a "crap" idea.


Relaying on player ran programs to compensate for a design oversight, is always a bad idea. .


No it isn't.

Wow, this game of making unsupported assertions is awesome. Why waste time on supporting data and arguments!


Your turn Blink

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#15 - 2012-12-08 12:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
And it's not a "crap" idea.

Relaying on player ran programs to compensate for a design oversight, is always a bad idea.
Providing players with tools with which they can create services for each other is always a good idea.

This design puts it into the players' hands rather than make it an NPC service. Thus, it is pretty much the exact opposite of crap.

Quote:
Its like walking up to a guy with a gun, and telling him that you just hired someone to come and shoot him.
Yes. The system allows you to do that and have your nemesis know, without any doubt, that you are out for his hide. The system also allows you to not do that and let him live in uncertainty. Oh my what a crap system, that gives us such options. Roll

Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Any suggestion that involves alts is the worst kind of suggestion.
As luck would have it, no alts are needed.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-12-08 12:20:56 UTC
"CCP your new bounty system defies logic! Why would anyone want to place a bounty on someone and not have them know why they're bountied? How can we deter attacks without the perp knowing who he should avoid messing with in future?

And before anyone says why don't you just send him a mail, this is a crap idea. The mechanics should just support this, kind of like why we have a bounty system in the first place"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#17 - 2012-12-08 12:28:48 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Why would you willingly place a bounty on someones head without the option of some form of anonymity, especially in a universe where aggression is the norm?

Its like walking up to a guy with a gun, and telling him that you just hired someone to come and shoot him.

There should be ways to do anonymous bounties, as well as a way for bounties players to "cheat" the system to find out who they are. Relaying on a player ran anonymous bounty system, is a crap idea for those who might suggest it.


Some do it for hatemails.

Some do it becouse they can.

Some offer proxy services to hide identity ofperson that wants to place bounty.

Its whole new business....

If i would be a ccp i woulkd make some quick changes:
Personal bounty be placeble only on person that you have kill right, or has bad security status
Corporate/alliance bounties, free for all to place...

And why would i want to hide that i have something against you whne im wiling to place sizable bounty on your head?

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#18 - 2012-12-08 12:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kainotomiu Ronuken
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Yes, but the thing is, if you are found out by whatever means then the same could happen to you, right? Right now people are just putting bounties for fun and as a means to play with a new toy, but later on people should start think a bit about "Why did I get the bounty and who could the culprit be?"

At the very least have the best of both worlds and let anonymous bounty placements become an isk sink - say you have to pay 2x or even up to 5x in addition if you want to place an anonymous bounty. So for a 100k bounty you'd pay 500k. That way the anonymous placer would also have to think about the economical consequences.

Why should bounties be anonymous though?

Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Relaying on player ran programs to compensate for a design oversight, is always a bad idea.

EVE is about players creating the stuff themselves. As far as I'm concerned, giving players the bare tools and then relying on them to create everything is the best idea CCP could have.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-12-08 12:35:21 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:


Replacing player interaction with a game mechanic could just as easily be seen as a bad idea. The bottom line is, that the money to pay the bounty has to come from someones account, so it's only natural that info is easily available to everyone. If you want to hide it, you can use an intermediary to put up the bounty. What you need to explain is why CCP should replace those intermediaries with a game mechanic.


Coding the bounty system in the first place was to sidestepped player interaction. So what makes you think favoring player interaction over game mechanic will work this time around. I don't see how its "natural" for information about paying Concord(I'm guessing) a sum of money to be a broker for the killing of someone be made public.

Mikhem wrote:

Happy news. There is a way to make bounty "anonymous". Create alt character, move money from main char to alt char and put bounty with alt char. Noone knows who this alt char is.

Mikhem


More reason to add it in. The use of throw away alts will make any outside player interaction redundant.



As was detailed and clarified in this Dev Blog, the original Bounty System was broken and in need of updating. The new system does not replace any player generated content, it merely formalises it in a functional way.

As with most things in EVE, actions have their consequences. If you bad post on here, make enemies in-game through your actions, or simply find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time, the new bounty system provides other players with a regulated means to exact retribution. As an added bonus, posting a bounty on someone also has its consequence; that being that the player on whom you place a bounty knows who did it and can counter with either an attack of their own, or by placing a bounty on your head.

EVE is after all a cold, harsh place.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#20 - 2012-12-08 12:39:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
"CCP your new bounty system defies logic! Why would anyone want to place a bounty on someone and not have them know why they're bountied? How can we deter attacks without the perp knowing who he should avoid messing with in future?

And before anyone says why don't you just send him a mail, this is a crap idea. The mechanics should just support this, kind of like why we have a bounty system in the first place"


Your better then that Malcanis.

You and Tippia are defending player interaction over game mechanic, yet not realizing the argument is over a game mechanic that was created because of failed player interaction. Same goes for people wanting a coded stock exchange, or every player ran Eve bank failing.


CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
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