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CSM7 Dec Summit Topic - Mercs, Wars and Crimewatch

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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#1 - 2012-11-28 16:15:30 UTC
Details later again

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Angelica Scatterbrain
WH United
#2 - 2012-12-01 16:49:37 UTC
Why does CCP want to, in effect, eliminate all high sec pvp except factional warfare and war decs? That is exactly what the patch on Tuesday will do.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-02 04:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
With the latest yet ineffective wardec revamp, it made wardecs cost far too much for most highsec mercenary corps to afford.
With DecShield in operation, any and all wardecs can be easily dodged and subverted.

These two problems combined make the wardec system one laughable joke. How can a mercenary corp take contracts when their targets simply join an alliance and shed off any and all wardecs? The mercs have to spend and respend money again and again just to wardec the same target in a dismal hope that one wardec might get through.

With these problems, mercs are pretty much limited to taking contracts against low/null/wormhole dwelling targets, three demographics which are quite small in comparison to highsecs population.

Highsec ganking is so prevalent not because it's the preferred method, but rather out of necessity due to the lack of functioning wardec mechanics.



TL;DR - The wardec mechanics need to work. In their current state they do not.

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Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#4 - 2012-12-02 10:21:00 UTC
Angelica Scatterbrain wrote:
Why does CCP want to, in effect, eliminate all high sec pvp except factional warfare and war decs? That is exactly what the patch on Tuesday will do.


Not sure if we are thinking about the same patch notes, but i what way they will eliminate it ?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#5 - 2012-12-04 15:53:15 UTC
Please get a commitment date for a fix to the non-persistent Safety bug.

Please get and publish more detail on the potential for changes to sec status impacts / rebuilds / tags / etc. or ask them to publish a devblog with expected timetables.

I would love to hear more about the "cops and robbers" vision that CCP Greyscale mentioned in his NEO comments - even if it's long term and WITHOUT any dates - that CCP Greyscale mentioned in his NEO comments. Help us understand the potential features and functions here and open them for early ideation discussion with the community.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#6 - 2012-12-08 07:43:37 UTC
Wardec fees should be based on the sizes of both the aggressor corp/alliance and the defender corp/alliance, such that:

(a) base fees are based on the sum total of the members in both corps/alliances; and

(b) if the aggressor corp/alliance is larger than the defender corp/alliance, the fee is scaled up according to the ratio of the member sizes.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#7 - 2012-12-08 17:36:45 UTC
Wardecs really need to be fixed so that they actually matter. If you're a corporation that does highsec wardecs, like mercenaries, you're basically useless right now, the corporation thats decced and just join Dec Shield and escape. Why not make it so that if a corporation joins an alliance, the war does not transfer to that alliance, and will only transfer if the alliance joins the war as as allies, or the agressing corporation redeclares war on the alliance. The ally system is powerful enough without Dec Shield, and Dec Shield is basically breaking mechanics. They've been pointing out that they've been breaking games mechanics to CCP and the CSM, and yet, nothing is changed to prevent their basically stonewalling all highsec wardecs.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-12-08 19:22:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Currently lowsec pirates can blackmail you, destroy your ship, leave your pod intact and return to hisec like nothing happened = Man can kill you in alley, steal your wallet and next day come brag about it to your local corner bar.

In hisec if someone steals 1 trit from jetcan - "victim" gets tradeable kill right = Man steals cookie from you and your army shoot him into head 25 days later for doing that.edit: false info... this actually yields only suspect flag.

It would be better so, that in hisec only actions which cause concord intervention would yield tradeable kill right which you can sell forward to bounty hunters. Smaller crime than that would only turn aggressor red to your fleet/corp for 15 mins or so.edit: ...and because of the misunderstanding above - this is in order already. All good in hisec.

In lowsec tradeable kill right would yield from ship kill, but not from shooting someones ship. This would fix it so, that if pirates ransom you and let you go, you don't get tradeable kill right. However if they shoot your ship dead (even after you paid your ransoms) u get it. edit: obviously this rule would not apply to legal (wars, fw) targets in lowsec either.

In other words give pirates more grey area to maneuver in hisec and more consequences in lowsec.

Then fix the bounty hunting by limiting kill right activation to corporation/fleet instead of being free for all.

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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#9 - 2012-12-10 17:45:47 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Currently lowsec pirates can blackmail you, destroy your ship, leave your pod intact and return to hisec like nothing happened = Man can kill you in alley, steal your wallet and next day come brag about it to your local corner bar.

In hisec if someone steals 1 trit from jetcan - "victim" gets tradeable kill right = Man steals cookie from you and your army shoot him into head 25 days later for doing that.

It would be better so, that in hisec only actions which cause concord intervention would yield tradeable kill right which you can sell forward to bounty hunters. Smaller crime than that would only turn aggressor red to your fleet/corp for 15 mins or so.

In lowsec tradeable kill right would yield from ship kill, but not from shooting someones ship. This would fix it so, that if pirates ransom you and let you go, you don't get tradeable kill right. However if they shoot your ship dead (even after you paid your ransoms) u get it.

In other words give pirates more grey area to maneuver in hisec and more consequences in lowsec.

Then fix the bounty hunting by limiting kill right activation to corporation/fleet instead of being free for all.


I think you have some facts wrong here. Anything that gives a *criminal* flag (not a suspect flag) gives a killright. So you don't get a kill right from can flipping. You do get one from being suicide ganked, or from losing your pod in lowsec.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-12-12 14:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Two step wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Currently lowsec pirates can blackmail you, destroy your ship, leave your pod intact and return to hisec like nothing happened = Man can kill you in alley, steal your wallet and next day come brag about it to your local corner bar.

In hisec if someone steals 1 trit from jetcan - "victim" gets tradeable kill right = Man steals cookie from you and your army shoot him into head 25 days later for doing that.

It would be better so, that in hisec only actions which cause concord intervention would yield tradeable kill right which you can sell forward to bounty hunters. Smaller crime than that would only turn aggressor red to your fleet/corp for 15 mins or so.

In lowsec tradeable kill right would yield from ship kill, but not from shooting someones ship. This would fix it so, that if pirates ransom you and let you go, you don't get tradeable kill right. However if they shoot your ship dead (even after you paid your ransoms) u get it.

In other words give pirates more grey area to maneuver in hisec and more consequences in lowsec.

Then fix the bounty hunting by limiting kill right activation to corporation/fleet instead of being free for all.


I think you have some facts wrong here. Anything that gives a *criminal* flag (not a suspect flag) gives a killright. So you don't get a kill right from can flipping. You do get one from being suicide ganked, or from losing your pod in lowsec.


Yes that seem to be the case. Apparently can flipping gives only suspect flag instead of criminal flag and as suspect flags do not yield kill rights - in hisec everything seems to be perfectly in order already. I've not known this and am sorry about the false information above. Bad research from my part.

You still could take look at lowsec though and think about which kills are legal (wartargets, fw) and what is pure pirating. Those who choose to do the pirating should be willing to face the consequences there too = kill rights from killing (not just shooting) a ship. In other words lowsec pirates should not be immune when they return to hisec.

There are people who say that making this would kill lowsec pvp. I believe that this is not the case. After all those who fight there "legally" could be excluded from this system and stop worrying about it. For pirates point of view there are still some laws (even not really enforced except with gate guns and such) in lowsec and if you break the laws any sanction what you get is something what you should expect.

Besides as I said earlier - those pirates who (for example) respect their ransoms can avoid some kill rights if being smart... and we need to remember that kill rights are not preventing anyone from coming back to hisec - those just make it more risky action to take.

Correct me if I'm wrong again. Would not be the 1st time .)

(Fixed the original post to avoid spreading further false info about the can flipping mechanics)

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