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Carebears with bounties, welcome back to EVE

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Frying Doom
#121 - 2012-12-08 03:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Well, who's gonna kill the carebears?

Bounty Hunters people who will go after a bounty whether the persons ship is a close call or not.

Not some little cowards afraid of their own shadow.


Do you mind explaining why you feel carebears with bounties deserve to die while those without a bounty don't? Also, why should carebears without bounties be effectively safe?

Bounties are exactly that a monetary reward to kill someone. That is life.

Killing a defenseless ship for no reason and no reward is griefing and is only an action done to make you feel better about yourself. It serves no other purpose other than to inflate you own ego.

If you think a miner needs to die for something he specifically did to you kill them or bounty them.

If not picking on someone just to make yourself feel better is pretty much the definition of bullying.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#122 - 2012-12-08 03:24:53 UTC
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
2) I know and have the ability to use weapons to defend myself, but like the vast majority of society, I don't use them on others routinely and have no illusions about my ability to do so successfully going up against someone (say, a soldier) with training and superior weapons on ground of their choosing. John Rambo I am not. Yes, everyone starts on the 'same footing', but at the same time I'm an older person with bad vision and worse reflexes, which shows up even in virtual combat.

This isn't a tactical shooter. You don't need top-notch reflexes to be good at EVE combat. You're not John Rambo, but you could be, if you wanted to. It seems to me that you're simply finding excuses to not partake in the fighting aspects of this game because you're too afraid (I'm not criticizing you here, this is merely an observation) to be burdened with the disappointment of loss. If you don't want to fight, then fine, don't. But at the same, don't chastise other people for using violence in a game that was created with violence quite possibly being the main draw. It's not like they're forcing SQL injections to toggle the innocent into an attackable state. Having the capacity to be violenced at any time, by anyone, is kind of this game's central tenet.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-12-08 03:25:00 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't argue about taking on personalities, I argued about starting on even ground, and as such, always having the same means to defend yourself that all other players have. A nerdy kid can get beat up in school because he doesn't have the body mass of a bumbling football jock, but in EVE, everyone can equip the same guns, the same armor plates, and the same tackling modules. Being defenseless in EVE is a choice.


Doesn't that ignore several things, such as most mining ships aren't heavily armed?

Or, to quote the 'body mass' example, if I'm running around in a frigate, and someone with a destroyer starts attacking me, I'm unlikely to be fitted out to deal with the problem in a physical way.

Being defenseless in RL is also a choice, and it's a choice that most people in society understand and accept as reality, which is why very few people carry guns relative to population, even in places where it's legal to carry them.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#124 - 2012-12-08 03:27:13 UTC
So, you decline to answer my questions?

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2012-12-08 03:29:09 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
2) I know and have the ability to use weapons to defend myself, but like the vast majority of society, I don't use them on others routinely and have no illusions about my ability to do so successfully going up against someone (say, a soldier) with training and superior weapons on ground of their choosing. John Rambo I am not. Yes, everyone starts on the 'same footing', but at the same time I'm an older person with bad vision and worse reflexes, which shows up even in virtual combat.

This isn't a tactical shooter. You don't need top-notch reflexes to be good at EVE combat. You're not John Rambo, but you could be, if you wanted to. It seems to me that you're simply finding excuses to not partake in the fighting aspects of this game because you're too afraid (I'm not criticizing you here, this is merely an observation) to be burdened with the disappointment of loss. If you don't want to fight, then fine, don't. But at the same, don't chastise other people for using violence in a game that was created with violence quite possibly being the main draw. It's not like they're forcing SQL injections to toggle the innocent into an attackable state. Having the capacity to be violenced at any time, by anyone, is kind of this game's central tenet.


First, no offense taken. And I AM a very peaceful person in real life, so that carries over into my gaming. I don't PvP, I recognize it as part of 'life' in EVE, and I don't get all bent out of shape at getting killed.

If anything, however, I'd ask this question: PvP is certainly part of the game, even in supposedly 'safe' zones. In RL, when people attack unarmed men and women, we do not celebrate them or hold them to be particularly shining examples of society. Why feel the need to do so in EVE?
Jawas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2012-12-08 03:29:21 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Ok, paint us the picture then, what would Highsec be like if everyone "moved to null to fight players who can fight back"? Are you really willing to advocate for a safe highsec?


I'm willing to advocate against griefing which is exactly what this allows. If you want PVP that much, move to lowsec or even nullsec where you can do it without Concord intervention. Or are you too scared to face someone who can actually fight back?

You are just picking on players who are unable to defend themselves against a cruiser while sitting in a mining barge trying to earn the money to afford to PVP later. Many are not carebears but they simply lack the isk to venture into lowsec and afford to replace the ships they lose.

Doing this, you are just taking that ability to earn the isk to PVP later on, away from them because they've just lost a ship they can't afford to replace and without it, they can earn enough isk to move to lowsec. Even if they manage to replace it by mining in a smaller ship, you come along and do the same again, either to their current ship or their shiny new barge that has probably taken them a week of mining in a frigate to buy. Ergo, they can't progress in the game so it's not worth them playing it any more.

Really CCP have cut their own throats with this idea, it will not end well.

Just remember that these "carebears" you despise so much are the industrials who are building the ships and seeding the market so you can buy a replacement.
Frying Doom
#127 - 2012-12-08 03:30:31 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
So, you decline to answer my questions?

Market forces will kill carebears, as you seem unable to grasp simple concepts.

People with balls will kill them, not craven cowards that have to bully.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#128 - 2012-12-08 03:30:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't argue about taking on personalities, I argued about starting on even ground, and as such, always having the same means to defend yourself that all other players have. A nerdy kid can get beat up in school because he doesn't have the body mass of a bumbling football jock, but in EVE, everyone can equip the same guns, the same armor plates, and the same tackling modules. Being defenseless in EVE is a choice.


Doesn't that ignore several things, such as most mining ships aren't heavily armed?

No, but they can be heavily tanked, to deter attacks.

Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Or, to quote the 'body mass' example, if I'm running around in a frigate, and someone with a destroyer starts attacking me, I'm unlikely to be fitted out to deal with the problem in a physical way.

You're saying the bigger the ship, the more advantageous it is for combat? That's a ridiculous claim. But even if it was true, you need to remember than the choice of what ship to fly is also in the players' hands. If you think frigates are weak, fly something bigger.

Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Being defenseless in RL is also a choice, and it's a choice that most people in society understand and accept as reality, which is why very few people carry guns relative to population, even in places where it's legal to carry them.
and
Frying Doom wrote:
It is in Real life as well.

You can be armed to the teeth in RL without carrying a weapon, in EvE you must have those.

No, it's not. Not everyone can be a Karate master due to physical limitations, not everyone can own a gun due to laws, or even be physically or mentally fit enough to properly use it.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-12-08 03:31:11 UTC
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
2) I know and have the ability to use weapons to defend myself, but like the vast majority of society, I don't use them on others routinely and have no illusions about my ability to do so successfully going up against someone (say, a soldier) with training and superior weapons on ground of their choosing. John Rambo I am not. Yes, everyone starts on the 'same footing', but at the same time I'm an older person with bad vision and worse reflexes, which shows up even in virtual combat.

This isn't a tactical shooter. You don't need top-notch reflexes to be good at EVE combat. You're not John Rambo, but you could be, if you wanted to. It seems to me that you're simply finding excuses to not partake in the fighting aspects of this game because you're too afraid (I'm not criticizing you here, this is merely an observation) to be burdened with the disappointment of loss. If you don't want to fight, then fine, don't. But at the same, don't chastise other people for using violence in a game that was created with violence quite possibly being the main draw. It's not like they're forcing SQL injections to toggle the innocent into an attackable state. Having the capacity to be violenced at any time, by anyone, is kind of this game's central tenet.


First, no offense taken. And I AM a very peaceful person in real life, so that carries over into my gaming. I don't PvP, I recognize it as part of 'life' in EVE, and I don't get all bent out of shape at getting killed.

If anything, however, I'd ask this question: PvP is certainly part of the game, even in supposedly 'safe' zones. In RL, when people attack unarmed men and women, we do not celebrate them or hold them to be particularly shining examples of society. Why feel the need to do so in EVE?


Because EVE is pixels, RL isn't. You're taking it too seriously.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#130 - 2012-12-08 03:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
If anything, however, I'd ask this question: PvP is certainly part of the game, even in supposedly 'safe' zones. In RL, when people attack unarmed men and women, we do not celebrate them or hold them to be particularly shining examples of society. Why feel the need to do so in EVE?

First and foremost, EVE is a video game. We hold the badasses in high esteem because they're the celebrities. Besides, if we go down this route, let's consider the fact that real-life pirates, ninjas, vikings, assassins, what have you, are all idolized in popular culture. Sure, most of us inherently dislike crime in real life, but our culture worships violence.

Secondly, honor is subjective. Was Robin Hood a generous hero, or a cold-blooded murdering psychopath?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#131 - 2012-12-08 03:36:35 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
So, you decline to answer my questions?

Market forces will kill carebears, as you seem unable to grasp simple concepts.

People with balls will kill them, not craven cowards that have to bully.



No, these questions silly:
Do you mind explaining why you feel carebears with bounties deserve to die while those without a bounty don't? Also, why should carebears without bounties be effectively safe?

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Frying Doom
#132 - 2012-12-08 03:38:04 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I didn't argue about taking on personalities, I argued about starting on even ground, and as such, always having the same means to defend yourself that all other players have. A nerdy kid can get beat up in school because he doesn't have the body mass of a bumbling football jock, but in EVE, everyone can equip the same guns, the same armor plates, and the same tackling modules. Being defenseless in EVE is a choice.


Doesn't that ignore several things, such as most mining ships aren't heavily armed?

No, but they can be heavily tanked, to deter attacks.

Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Or, to quote the 'body mass' example, if I'm running around in a frigate, and someone with a destroyer starts attacking me, I'm unlikely to be fitted out to deal with the problem in a physical way.

You're saying the bigger the ship, the more advantageous it is for combat? That's a ridiculous claim. But even if it was true, you need to remember than the choice of what ship to fly is also in the players' hands. If you think frigates are weak, fly something bigger.

Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Being defenseless in RL is also a choice, and it's a choice that most people in society understand and accept as reality, which is why very few people carry guns relative to population, even in places where it's legal to carry them.

No, it's not. Not everyone can be a Karate master due to physical limitations, not everyone can own a gun due to laws, or even be physically or mentally fit enough to properly use it.

You do not need a black belt, a pencil works perfectly well (oh I am not talking about writing a letter)
Deterring attackers is not the same as being able to fight back, if you are sitting in a car surrounded by thugs, that is deterring attackers but not really helpful.

Society does not applaud people picking on the weak and harmless, I fail to see why anyone in EvE would expect anything other than ridicule in EvE.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-12-08 03:38:52 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


If anything, however, I'd ask this question: PvP is certainly part of the game, even in supposedly 'safe' zones. In RL, when people attack unarmed men and women, we do not celebrate them or hold them to be particularly shining examples of society. Why feel the need to do so in EVE?


Because EVE is pixels, RL isn't. You're taking it too seriously.[/quote]

Well, I'm taking it as seriously as the person who argued that I was 'chastising' others simply because I said there's no skill or glory in PvPing someone who doesn't fight back. Or the OP, neither of whom you're commenting on. By your argument, everyone posting in this thread is taking it too seriously, yourself included.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#134 - 2012-12-08 03:40:11 UTC
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
By your argument, everyone posting in this thread is taking it too seriously, yourself included.

I guess that means I have lost EVE.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frying Doom
#135 - 2012-12-08 03:40:13 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
So, you decline to answer my questions?

Market forces will kill carebears, as you seem unable to grasp simple concepts.

People with balls will kill them, not craven cowards that have to bully.



No, these questions silly:
Do you mind explaining why you feel carebears with bounties deserve to die while those without a bounty don't? Also, why should carebears without bounties be effectively safe?

Market forces.

If they have annoyed someone to the point that they have made it economically profitable, well welcome to capitalism. If not picking on the defenseless to improve your own self esteem is just bullying.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#136 - 2012-12-08 03:40:22 UTC
Have you ever actually been in a situation where your choices are either giving up your possessions, or most likely getting stabbed in the neck? Because I have. Don't compare a video game to real life. You'll simply make a fool of yourself.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2012-12-08 03:42:23 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
If anything, however, I'd ask this question: PvP is certainly part of the game, even in supposedly 'safe' zones. In RL, when people attack unarmed men and women, we do not celebrate them or hold them to be particularly shining examples of society. Why feel the need to do so in EVE?

First and foremost, EVE is a video game. We hold the badasses in high esteem because they're the celebrities. Besides, if we go down this route, let's consider the fact that real-life pirates, ninjas, vikings, assassins, what have you, are all idolized in popular culture. Sure, most of us inherently dislike crime in real life, but our culture worships violence.

Secondly, honor is subjective. Was Robin Hood a generous hero, or a cold-blooded murdering psychopath?


In EVE, however, there's no political system, and therefore no analogue for a Robin Hood.

Also, our culture tends to place violence done against others to protect the innocent on a higher plane than violence done for personal property. Only a long time after the violent ones are dead do they get glorified.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#138 - 2012-12-08 03:44:23 UTC
Sure there is. I steal from the rich (the carebear miners and mission runners) and give to the poor (people I know).

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#139 - 2012-12-08 03:44:42 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
So, you decline to answer my questions?

Market forces will kill carebears, as you seem unable to grasp simple concepts.

People with balls will kill them, not craven cowards that have to bully.



No, these questions silly:
Do you mind explaining why you feel carebears with bounties deserve to die while those without a bounty don't? Also, why should carebears without bounties be effectively safe?

Market forces.

If they have annoyed someone to the point that they have made it economically profitable, well welcome to capitalism. If not picking on the defenseless to improve your own self esteem is just bullying.


Ok, so you're assuming that if a miner has a bounty he must deserve it huh?

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2012-12-08 03:44:53 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Sure there is. I steal from the rich (the carebear miners and mission runners) and give to the poor (people I know).


Roll