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Before bounty-hunting, you should know how bounty-hunting works

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-12-06 20:39:45 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Question: insurance is subtracted from loss. Salvage is ignored. How about loot drop. Is that left out of the loss calculation? So, I'm in a 1 billion ISK mach with a 2 billion ISK faction fit. I go boom. 1 billion ISK of mods drop. What is my loss? 2B or 3B?


Loot that drops does not count. 2b loss.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#22 - 2012-12-06 20:46:44 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
My old alliance leader who wa in Wldly Inapp thinks these new mechanics are idiotic and just cannot participate in the game any longer after 4 years. I don't blame him at alll

For a Sandbox, it sure is becoming incredibly restrictive as to what type of player its appeal is for. Sad really.


So the bounties only on -1 and below which is extremely restrictive is sandbox. But a system that lets you put bounties on anyone is not sandbox?

You have a strange definition of sandbox.



What is this -1 figure that you pulled out of thin air ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-12-06 20:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
Weaselior wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Question: insurance is subtracted from loss. Salvage is ignored. How about loot drop. Is that left out of the loss calculation? So, I'm in a 1 billion ISK mach with a 2 billion ISK faction fit. I go boom. 1 billion ISK of mods drop. What is my loss? 2B or 3B?


Loot that drops does not count. 2b loss.



Wow, bounty payouts really will be tiny, won't they.

100M isk BS, 70M insurance payout. Half the 20M isk fit drops.... 20% of 40M = 8M payout on 120M ISK ship going boom?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#24 - 2012-12-06 20:51:00 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Question: insurance is subtracted from loss. Salvage is ignored. How about loot drop. Is that left out of the loss calculation? So, I'm in a 1 billion ISK mach with a 2 billion ISK faction fit. I go boom. 1 billion ISK of mods drop. What is my loss? 2B or 3B?


Loot that drops does not count. 2b loss.



Wow, bounty payouts really will be tiny, won't they.

100M isk BS, 70M insurance payout. Half the 20M isk fit drops.... 20% of 40M = 800K payout on 120,000K ISK ship going boom?





20% of 40 M would be 8,000,000.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2012-12-06 20:53:54 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What is this -1 figure that you pulled out of thin air ?
Since when do age-old game mechanics count as “thin air”?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#26 - 2012-12-06 21:03:00 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
post insurance, does that mean the few mil for the insurance policy is included so (ship+ fittings +insurance cost)*.2, or (total ship value-insurance payout)*.2?

The second one. If you had a 100 mil ISK battleship, with an insured return of 40 mil ISK (randomly picking numbers, here) with a 100 mil ISK bounty on your head, the payout for someone killing you would be 100-40 = 60 mil ISK. After being killed, your remaining bounty would be 40 mil ISK.

Note that it doesn't matter what insurance you actually own, either. The maximum insurance payout for that ship type is subtracted regardless of how the particular ship is insured.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
Question: insurance is subtracted from loss. Salvage is ignored. How about loot drop. Is that left out of the loss calculation? So, I'm in a 1 billion ISK mach with a 2 billion ISK faction fit. I go boom. 1 billion ISK of mods drop. What is my loss? 2B or 3B?

As in the FW PvP LP payouts pushed in Inferno, non-destroyed modules are not included when determined the "cost" of the kill. Your loss is 2B ISK in this case.

CCP Punkturis wrote:
nice one.. we should get you to write our dev blogs Blink

Since I'm not a dev, wouldn't that ruin the point of them being dev blogs?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#27 - 2012-12-06 21:04:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What is this -1 figure that you pulled out of thin air ?
Since when do age-old game mechanics count as “thin air”?



Since I have spouted off here about absolutely nothing that is determined by numbers, nor did I make use of any.


And he gave no explanation of why he 'picked' -1.


Makes no sense at all.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#28 - 2012-12-06 21:05:39 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What is this -1 figure that you pulled out of thin air ?
Since when do age-old game mechanics count as “thin air”?



Since I have spouted off here about absolutely nothing that is determined by numbers, nor did I make use of any.


And he gave no explanation of why he 'picked' -1.


Makes no sense at all.

Under the old bounty mechanics, only people with -1 or below sec status could receive bounties. The "-1" complaint was because this restriction seemed more arbitrary and counter-sandbox than the current bounty system does.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-12-06 21:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
This would all be great, and thanks OP, but none of this means a darned thing to Goons who are shaping up as pretty much the only ones doing high bounties.

My old alliance leader who wa in Wldly Inapp thinks these new mechanics are idiotic and just cannot participate in the game any longer after 4 years. I don't blame him at alll

For a Sandbox, it sure is becoming incredibly restrictive as to what type of player its appeal is for. Sad really.


The sandbox stops being a box when all the walls are removed. Then it is just a pile of sand that nobody wants to play in. Just because it is a sandbox game doesn't mean that there aren't still rules to follow.

You just don't understand what a sandbox is. I hope this has enlightened you.

If we played your way I would have an invincible ship with unlimited high slots and doomsday devices on rifters.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#30 - 2012-12-06 21:10:49 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What is this -1 figure that you pulled out of thin air ?
Since when do age-old game mechanics count as “thin air”?



Since I have spouted off here about absolutely nothing that is determined by numbers, nor did I make use of any.


And he gave no explanation of why he 'picked' -1.


Makes no sense at all.

Under the old bounty mechanics, only people with -1 or below sec status could receive bounties. The "-1" complaint was because this restriction seemed more arbitrary and counter-sandbox than the current bounty system does.



Thank you.

But I can also go down to -4.4 and still operate in .5 High. Therefore, even bothering to run missions for sec status anymore is pointless, except the occasional one to keep it slightly above that if needed.

Missions were already LP and Reward nerfed within the last 18 months, and there went almost the last reason to do them. Now it's only to keep above the -4.4 line, and missioning for specific POS anchoring space, if even needed, again.

The reasons to stick around are just getting fewer and fewer.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2012-12-06 21:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Since I have spouted off here about absolutely nothing that is determined by numbers, nor did I make use of any.
You were spouting off stuff about what was appropriate for a sandbox. He asked a rhetorical question of what was more sandbox, restricted or unrestricted bounties.

Quote:
And he gave no explanation of why he 'picked' -1.
He didn't have to since you had already provided it: you made a comparison between the old and the new system, at which point the -1 picked itself and didn't need any explanation since it was inherent in the system

Quote:
Makes no sense at all.
It makes perfect sense if you know how the old bounty system — the one you related to in your comment — worked in relation to the new one.

Quote:
But I can also go down to -4.4 and still operate in .5 High. Therefore, even bothering to run missions for sec status anymore is pointless, except the occasional one to keep it slightly above that if needed.
This is just as incorrect now as it was an hour ago when your thread on the topic got locked.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#32 - 2012-12-06 21:14:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It makes perfect sense if you know how the old bounty system — the one you related to in your comment — worked in relation to the new one.



Thanks, but he replied informatively on his own.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#33 - 2012-12-06 21:27:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What is this -1 figure that you pulled out of thin air ?
Since when do age-old game mechanics count as “thin air”?


you didn't answer his question, some of us may not know. this was not a constructive response Tippia, I know how you only like to debate but answer or move on lol Roll
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-12-06 21:30:50 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

20% of 40 M would be 8,000,000.


Umm... yeah. That's what I said. Yeah. ;)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#35 - 2012-12-06 21:33:22 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What is this -1 figure that you pulled out of thin air ?
Since when do age-old game mechanics count as “thin air”?



Since I have spouted off here about absolutely nothing that is determined by numbers, nor did I make use of any.


And he gave no explanation of why he 'picked' -1.


Makes no sense at all.

Under the old bounty mechanics, only people with -1 or below sec status could receive bounties. The "-1" complaint was because this restriction seemed more arbitrary and counter-sandbox than the current bounty system does.



Thank you.

But I can also go down to -4.4 and still operate in .5 High. Therefore, even bothering to run missions for sec status anymore is pointless, except the occasional one to keep it slightly above that if needed.

Missions were already LP and Reward nerfed within the last 18 months, and there went almost the last reason to do them. Now it's only to keep above the -4.4 line, and missioning for specific POS anchoring space, if even needed, again.

The reasons to stick around are just getting fewer and fewer.


You accidentally forgot to mention the numerous massive buffs missions have received, most recently when all the agents were raised to +20 quality.

It's Ok these things can happen.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2012-12-06 21:38:30 UTC
The formula is broken: it takes out the full amount of plat insurance rather than the net (payout - cost). This is dumb: it overly reduces the bounties that people recover for no reason (because the whole point of the insurance reduction is so people don't profit, which is accomplished by doing it on a net basis). This should get fixed.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2012-12-06 21:41:30 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
you didn't answer his question
…because given the comments he made about old and new, he should be fully aware of where the number comes from. Either that, or he was spouting uninformed nonsense and needed to own up to that fact.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#38 - 2012-12-06 21:47:57 UTC
Well written PSA Petrus. Have a like Big smile

wumbo
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2012-12-06 21:53:01 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
This would all be great, and thanks OP, but none of this means a darned thing to Goons who are shaping up as pretty much the only ones doing high bounties.

My old alliance leader who wa in Wldly Inapp thinks these new mechanics are idiotic and just cannot participate in the game any longer after 4 years. I don't blame him at alll

For a Sandbox, it sure is becoming incredibly restrictive as to what type of player its appeal is for. Sad really.



What kind of sandbox is it where people can do things I don't approve of?

:pout:

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-12-06 22:24:55 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Missions were already LP and Reward nerfed within the last 18 months, and there went almost the last reason to do them. Now it's only to keep above the -4.4 line, and missioning for specific POS anchoring space, if even needed, again.

The reasons to stick around are just getting fewer and fewer.


You do know that there is more to do in EVE than grind missions, right?
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