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I rejoined EVE because of Incarna, and now they're taking it away?!?
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Oriaita Lee
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-22 06:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Oriaita Lee
Now that infamous door isn't going to go anywhere for YEARS.

I rejoined EVE after a long break so I could finally play the Space Barbie that they promised was initially going to be released in 2008. I was playing the game back then but I deactivated my account after the date for Walking In Stations kept getting pushed back and back, thinking to myself "Typical CCP taking forever to do anything - I'll cancel now and sign up again when they show me that they're actually making real progress on this".

I rejoined recently when I heard that Incarna would be out soon. Great, I thought - finally. When they said they'd make the avatar clothes a microtransaction, I was concerned, because I knew it meant no more free clothes in the character customiser and if there's one thing that customiser BADLY needs it's more, better clothes than the ugly 1970s monstrosities in there now, but I figured, "hey microtransactions are the way things are going these days, and most are usually only a dollar or so per item maximum" so I figured it'd be okay. Then when they priced the NEX store ludicrously high (lets face it, the monocle isn't the problem, even the very cheapest items are way overpriced when you look at their cost ratio compared to the price of ships) my heart sunk. 1000 Aur for the cheapest stuff? Try 50 Aurum, guys - look around you at the market (and also look at the EVE market where boots are selling for less than 10 million ISK, a small fraction of their Aurum cost). I knew CCP simply didn't have the experience in this kind of market to get this part right. Still, I had my CQ and they were going to expand it soon so I could meet other avatars, right? Right?

Now I read that they're "refocusing" on spaceships and laying off 20% of their staff. I don't see how a mass layoff is going to help them produce anything quicker, but more importantly (for me) it seems that they've given up producing anything outside of the Captains Quarters for now. I can see the technical problems of having multiple avatars in the same space chewing up CPU, but damn, I don't care if they dumb the graphics down to get the result - if it looks like Privateer or Wing Commander, or even Minecraft or Nethack, FINE - but I want to be able to meet other avatars. Preferably wearing some cool stuff without paying through the nose for the privilege.

I don't care about ship spinning (my CQ runs fine, graphics card sweats a bit but for me it's worth it), new ships (can barely fly any of the current ones), new features, etc. Bug-fixing is nice, definitely do that - maybe consider a "code freeze" like what Minecraft did recently, and play-balancing is good, especially looking forward to hybrid balancing and not getting a Nyx dropped on me every 2 jumps, but If CCP wanted to make me really happy, they could:

* Top priority - some way for avatars to meet, ASAP. Otherwise, all your other Incarna stuff is pointless and will continue to look pointless and embarrassing until you do this. Establishments would be great, but if they must, they can wait - even if it's just one-on-one meetings for now, to save CPU, I'd settle for that. You should be able to at the very least invite one other person into your Captains' Quarters. Don't tell me that would be impossible to code, if it weren't for the EULA a bored fan could probably knock up something like that in a week.

* Ditch the NEX store and add the clothes to the character creator, or just let users design their own clothes (we've all seen how quickly mod communities work), or if you MUST charge for the clothes, drop prices by at LEAST a factor of 15-25 and for chrissake design some better ones, that might reflect what people may wish their avatars to actually wear. If you're stuck for ideas look at what Facebook games are doing with their wardrobes. Think simple, high quantity and cheap.

If I got even some of that wishlist, I'd be thrilled and I'd start subscribing 12 months in advance - and probably even donating a little bit of extra money whenever I could just to help CCP re-employ some of those poor lost staff. CCP, you've talked to the endless whiners who hate Incarna and want their spaceship game back, now please talk to me. Cheers.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#2 - 2011-10-22 06:09:39 UTC
Also for you.. WiS is on backburner now, not taken away or cancelled as was FiS for the last 2 years. Welcome to the bitter noob club.

If CCP wouldn't do what they now do there would be no FiS to support your preferred and finished(*) WiS.

(*)finished as I understand it means: most of the promise features are done - which no doubt will take most of the crew of CCP 1+ years
Oriaita Lee
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-10-22 06:11:05 UTC
"Backburner" is as good as dead given that it's taken them five years to design one room when it apparently wasn't on the backburner.
COMM4NDER
Legendary Umbrellas
#4 - 2011-10-22 06:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: COMM4NDER
First, the CQ was utter fail, sure would be cool if all that you mention would be there but nothing was there. They just got into 3 racial quarters. 6 months after release.

By doing CQ everything else in EVE got delayed way to much. _Balancing_, New Ships needs to come in _each_ expansion balancing would be nicer to come in waves month to month etc instead of a massive nerf once a year.

CQ online is not that easy and would probably stress the servers even more on their knees that they already are. Its not easy as you would think. Minecraft netcode is crappy as already and 1 year after multiplayer release its getting playable (SMP) and CQ is far more than some java project with far more players.

Also this game is about spaceships and most of its users play because of that. CCP should follow what most players want and not minority. CQ should get developed slowly and stable and not released with unfinished and buggy releases. In its current state you even se texture issues, crappy models and lame graphical bugs that you only would see in beta release.

My two cents, also current direction CCP is going for is ******* awesome! Finaly it seems they got their thumbs out of their buts.

Sad that 20% of the WoD devs had to go but looking at it, EVE is their income and they need to keep it up if they want the users to pay.

[url=https://github.com/CommanderAlchemy/.bin/blob/master/eve] EVE - Online Launcher [Linux] [/url] Installs, launches character prefixes (both SISI & Tranquility). Simplescreenrecorder shm inject
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#5 - 2011-10-22 06:22:12 UTC
Just chill....the FiS people won this round already....you will soon have all 4 CQs, play with that a bit in the mean time

Start writing fiction about what your character will do once she can walk around the rest of the station or something lol

The Drake is a Lie
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#6 - 2011-10-22 06:23:07 UTC
Oriaita Lee wrote:
"Backburner" is as good as dead given that it's taken them five years to design one room when it apparently wasn't on the backburner.

Na.. you don't have the full story on this one.
It took them 3 of those 5 years to make their own engine, just to bin it.
And the remaining 2 years the development effort was shared with WoD that received a full stop on the tech side and is probably restricted to drawing-board mode for the next 1-2 years.

WiS will bake smaller breadrolls from here on, especially as it has to stand on it's own and obviously misses a reason to exist in the first place - playable game content. CCP gamedesigners should be able to figure something out within the next 6 months that can be put into the dev pipeline 12 months from here..
Wouldn't expect anything else.
Oriaita Lee
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-10-22 06:23:44 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Just chill....the FiS people won this round already....you will soon have all 4 CQs, play with that a bit in the mean time

Start writing fiction about what your character will do once she can walk around the rest of the station or something lol


Been doing that for years. How about they give us the Establishments, scrap everything else and all the "I hate RP" guys can be forced to roleplay wardecs and shooting at each other in ships instead.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-10-22 06:44:33 UTC
RP in the CQ? With what the cans on the shelf? You would never be able to RP with more than one person the graphics cards would melt into nothing.

I have more space likes than you. 
Elisia Brey
W I N T E R S U N
#9 - 2011-10-22 06:45:47 UTC
Oriaita Lee wrote:
Now that infamous door isn't going to go anywhere for YEARS.


No.
It's gone.
Thank you CCP for bringing back ship spinning. Big smile
Flamespar
WarRavens
#10 - 2011-10-22 07:31:13 UTC
CCP does not give a **** that you would like them to deliver what they have promised to deliver for the last 4 years. Otherwise they would've at least given us some indication of the future of incarna. Their silence shows that there is no future for incarna.

Sad but true.
Severian Carnifex
#11 - 2011-10-22 07:38:16 UTC
say thnx to 20 ppl on forums with megaphones that were louder then all the rest of player base that play the game... Evil
Bless's Minion
DuckPus Fightclub
#12 - 2011-10-22 07:45:02 UTC
I am very surprised they made this decision. They seriously didn't realize that most of the bad things that happened when Incarna was launched was because of their own bad deployment and not because WiS is a bad idea?

Fail Incarna Launch ->
people in favor/neutral to WiS stay quiet (majority)
people who dislike WiS make a lot of noise, now having legit arguments. (minority)

CCP is talking about how it has learned from its mistakes, but they clearly haven't.
CCP just spent the last couple years getting the community excited for Incarna. Nearly all of their advertisements and videos are at least Incarna related. The freaken background of this page is the Captain's Quarters! In spite of what the relatively few loud mouthed people say, who now feel that they have won, (and they pretty much have), this is going to be a disaster for the company and it's obvious.
There are many people who have been waiting for a couple years for Incarna/dust, and now when they are almost done, we get a letter from the company saying they themselves don't actually care about those aspects as much anymore. How do you think that makes subscribers feel? It's good to iterate on FiS, but not if it is done like this. Why do I even need to say this, how is this not already apparent to CCP?
They say they are considering abandoning the Nex Store? So we are just throwing out decals, tattoos, clothing...etc? wtf? They have spent a year getting that stuff ready and they are just going to write all that off as a waste of time? How about instead, changing the Nex Store so it actually makes sense?( Hint: change the prices/design so it doesn't make the average person feel like CCP wants to rip us off.)
Also, honestly how is Dust 514 supposed to be a success without a multiplayer incarna? Especially when it must have been programmed to include Incarna already. Now they have 2 months to slant it back away from the avatar aspects before private trials start? Dust is already being marketed as one of a kind, innovative game. In other words, if it isn't a big success it will be a failure. Dust cannot afford to be screwed with at this stage!

Basically, CCP is already in to deep to just stop with Incarna.
The solution? CCP should just keep iterating on all three things, (FiS, WiS, Dust). If they are feeling too stretched, then sure, drop WoD, honestly it isn't nearly as important as EVE is to the company.(monetary value and otherwise) If they don't make each of these things a success, they will see serious drops in subscribers. They already witnessed this once, looks like they are going to go back in for a double dip with Incarna and Dust. I can only hope that they have the resources to recover from that. I really like EVE and just want it to be good.
Di Mulle
#13 - 2011-10-22 08:56:29 UTC
Bless's Minion wrote:
I am very surprised they made this decision. They seriously didn't realize that most of the bad things that happened when Incarna was launched was because of their own bad deployment and not because WiS is a bad idea?

Fail Incarna Launch ->
people in favor/neutral to WiS stay quiet (majority)
people who dislike WiS make a lot of noise, now having legit arguments. (minority)

CCP is talking about how it has learned from its mistakes, but they clearly haven't.
CCP just spent the last couple years getting the community excited for Incarna. Nearly all of their advertisements and videos are at least Incarna related. The freaken background of this page is the Captain's Quarters! In spite of what the relatively few loud mouthed people say, who now feel that they have won, (and they pretty much have), this is going to be a disaster for the company and it's obvious.
There are many people who have been waiting for a couple years for Incarna/dust, and now when they are almost done, we get a letter from the company saying they themselves don't actually care about those aspects as much anymore. How do you think that makes subscribers feel? It's good to iterate on FiS, but not if it is done like this. Why do I even need to say this, how is this not already apparent to CCP?
They say they are considering abandoning the Nex Store? So we are just throwing out decals, tattoos, clothing...etc? wtf? They have spent a year getting that stuff ready and they are just going to write all that off as a waste of time? How about instead, changing the Nex Store so it actually makes sense?( Hint: change the prices/design so it doesn't make the average person feel like CCP wants to rip us off.)
Also, honestly how is Dust 514 supposed to be a success without a multiplayer incarna? Especially when it must have been programmed to include Incarna already. Now they have 2 months to slant it back away from the avatar aspects before private trials start? Dust is already being marketed as one of a kind, innovative game. In other words, if it isn't a big success it will be a failure. Dust cannot afford to be screwed with at this stage!

Basically, CCP is already in to deep to just stop with Incarna.
The solution? CCP should just keep iterating on all three things, (FiS, WiS, Dust). If they are feeling too stretched, then sure, drop WoD, honestly it isn't nearly as important as EVE is to the company.(monetary value and otherwise) If they don't make each of these things a success, they will see serious drops in subscribers. They already witnessed this once, looks like they are going to go back in for a double dip with Incarna and Dust. I can only hope that they have the resources to recover from that. I really like EVE and just want it to be good.


What Incarna and Dust have in common ? Where you got that ?

Also "sure, drop WoD" pretty much means dropping of Incarna. They are basically same thing.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-10-22 09:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
all that was taken away are your expectations

they are not going to remove the existing Incarna content from the game.

you should always pay for game based on what it is, not based on what you hope it might become in a few years.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#15 - 2011-10-22 09:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
I don't think you guys know what you're talking about.

Later on when the time is right they'll focus more on WiS and probably NeX store.
Slowing down WoD development doesn't mean they wont do WiS.

They didn't drop anything. They just slowed the other stuff down and focused on FiS and Dust.

Edit: To the OP: It's a bit obvious that you started playing for the wrong reasons.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-10-22 10:05:51 UTC
Incarna was released too early and for the wrong reasons. It failed and now it's being slowed down because EVE needs some actual content before everyone leaves.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#17 - 2011-10-22 10:10:18 UTC
So? **** off to second life already...

Kthxbye
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#18 - 2011-10-22 10:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
non judgement wrote:
I don't think you guys know what you're talking about.

Later on when the time is right they'll focus more on WiS and probably NeX store.
Slowing down WoD development doesn't mean they wont do WiS.

They didn't drop anything. They just slowed the other stuff down and focused on FiS and Dust.

Edit: To the OP: It's a bit obvious that you started playing for the wrong reasons.


Yeah but at the same time, Hellmar said they "MIGHT" revisit incarna in the future. Which means that unless something changes, its pretty much shelved for the time being. Or at least thats the way I read it.


"Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed. It also includes some optimisations and other fixes. I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us. Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line, but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to. "

EDIT: Actually, it seems like Hellmar changes his mind every few weeks or so... Might be best just to wait and see as opposed to speculating.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#19 - 2011-10-22 10:19:42 UTC
Oriaita Lee wrote:
I rejoined EVE because of Incarna, and now they're taking it away?!?

I'm disppointed too, I was hoping for some fun interaction with my fellow space pilots. It still feels unnatural to te be just a ship.

Well next time better act upon what CCP delivers, not what they say.
Aquila Draco
#20 - 2011-10-22 10:48:42 UTC
i am afraid that CCP dont understand some things...
1st. Drop of player numbers is not because WIS... its about CCPs promises they are giving and not keeping
2nd. Expansion that you dont deliver is not expansion and its not guilty for bad things that happen, its broken promise guilty
3rd. Many ppl are expecting WiS for years... you say no... they are not happy at all...
4th. Many ppl that like FiS are not happy if you use development for NOTHING AT ALL... they would not be angry if they see results of that...
5th. Its not smart to get angry one group of ppl... and then the other... you will have one more drop in players then... only ppl that will stay will be that part of playerbase that dont give a damn about future...
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