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Drones are wet paper bags now

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Josef Djugashvilis
#141 - 2012-12-06 00:28:01 UTC
I am so pleased with the nerf to drones that I am really looking forward to playing ARMA 3

This is not a signature.
Count of MonteCylon
Anti-Pirate Enforcement
#142 - 2012-12-06 00:33:48 UTC
I'm sad, I don't stay up to date on the patches or changes and play Eve solo. I JUST had the idea that I could run missions more easily in a Myrmidon that mostly stays out of enemy range, and apparently people have been doing it for a long time, and now it gets nerfed like two days after I started doing it Lol

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. -- Ephesians 6:12
Pitrolo Orti
Doomheim
#143 - 2012-12-06 18:46:20 UTC
Instead of shooting at rocks now I shoot at my drones :P I think sleepers are way easier than some LVL 4 rooms

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#144 - 2012-12-06 19:09:56 UTC
I said this before and will say this again.
The new drone AI didn't make missions harder, it made them more time wasting.
I.e. you lost XX drones, now it's time to invent and make more of them.
For some people it means another run to Jita.

Whatever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#145 - 2012-12-06 19:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Pitrolo Orti wrote:
Instead of shooting at rocks now I shoot at my drones :P I think sleepers are way easier than some LVL 4 rooms


Hell if you thinka lvl 4 is bad now, go to null sec, find a Blood Raiders Naval Ship Yard.

Go in with spider tanking cap boosting battleships (spider tank needs cap lol) and a logi ship , all BS with at least 2 types of EWAR in an attempt to juggle aggro off the logi, set self destruct and watch your entire little fleet die long before the 1st ship can explode it's self lol. That's what I and a mate just did, dind't want those Dominixes (Dominii?) anyways (not the self destruct part, but those ships were dead long before 2 mins were up).

Thank you ccp for the "more engaging PVE", and by more engaging pve I mean "never ever gonna do a Blood 10/10 again" Evil .
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#146 - 2012-12-06 20:04:21 UTC
My rebuttle to the entire WH thinly-veiled e-peen waving argument: Risk vs Reward.

If I want my drones taking WH level risks then I want to see WH level rewards at the end.

Regular drone captains who are just doing regular missions are not collecting WH level rewards, so why should they have to put up with WH level risk?

Fine, you elitist WH dwelling weirdos, we get it. We're just not as cool as you. We didn't sign up back in 2001 or whatever and don't have a billion SP and a trillion ISK to show for being bad-ass enough to live in WH space. Now step off your pedestal for a minute and try to remember that people who aren't taking the same risks as you aren't getting the same rewards, either. It's called fair trade. Our "softer" playstyle doesn't pay as much. Well guess what? We're fine with that. If we wanted the rewards that badly we would be taking those risks. But we're not, because we don't.

But now the risks of WH space have come to encroach on our nice little "comfort zone" and we're not seeing any sort of compensation for our pains. Get it?

CCP has added risk but has failed to add any reward.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Villaseni
Doomheim
#147 - 2012-12-06 20:56:06 UTC
I propose you fit a target painter or a remote rep and either paint a target or rep your sentries
You may thank me later
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2012-12-06 21:27:33 UTC
remote repprer on your ship perma repping one of your drones, so the aggro stays on you? Or do mission NPC not prioritize the remote rep like sleepers do?
Liandri Jenquai
Doomheim
#149 - 2012-12-07 01:20:57 UTC
Well I had done 20ish missions with no issue and then switched over to Caldari space to do some there and I finally lost some drones.

At first it was no problem. See drones taking damage, pull them in and then send them out again. But for some reason this Caldari mission was different. There were 5 frigates in a tight orbit around me in my torpedo golem. All were webbing me and one was scramming me. I had been doing fine with torps so didn't have my drones out but decided to send em out to get the scrammer off me. Drop my hammerheads out and after a few seconds one pops so I pull them back in. I sent the hobgoblins out and by the time their MWDs turn off 2 are dead. By the time the scram frigate is dead 3 of my gobos are dead. To make things worse my torpedos would orbit these frigates at super duper high speed until they disappeared, never hitting the frigates with 3 domination tps on target.

This is a HUGE wtf for me. This game is supposed to be a sandbox. If I want to carebear it up in empire then that is what I am paying CCP for. Nearly losing my expensive marauder simply because my drones all die before one little frigate gets popped is BS.

Oh and btw, a battleship killed a drone that was orbiting it. Wait, so I can't hit frigates orbiting my abaddon but an NPC battleship can instapop a drone?

Give me a break.


In short. Fix this or I'll say shut up and take my money to a different game company.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2012-12-07 01:52:04 UTC
Liandri Jenquai wrote:

This is a HUGE wtf for me. This game is supposed to be a sandbox. If I want to carebear it up in empire then that is what I am paying CCP for. Nearly losing my expensive marauder simply because my drones all die before one little frigate gets popped is BS.


Few things:

1.) "Sandbox" just means "ruleset and/or tools without defined objective", not "do whatever you want to do". There's a lot of confusion about that.

2.) Tools and rules change.

3.) Do not fly an expensive Marauder you cannot afford to lose because of one little frigate. Or anything else for that matter.

4.) If any of the above are unsatisfactory, you really are better off giving your money to someone else. Griping about it while still paying will make no impression whatsoever. Leaving won't really make an impression either, but at least you'll be free of the hassle.
ashley Eoner
#151 - 2012-12-07 02:18:31 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
remote repprer on your ship perma repping one of your drones, so the aggro stays on you? Or do mission NPC not prioritize the remote rep like sleepers do?
That would work if I could pre-target my drones. By the time you target your drones they are usually dead. Now if you abuse the "defect" in the AI you won't have nearly as much drone issues till they fix the AI in which case you will be back to losing your drones asap..
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#152 - 2012-12-07 02:33:23 UTC
Liandri Jenquai wrote:
Nearly losing my expensive marauder simply because my drones all die before one little frigate gets popped is BS.

.....

In short. Fix this or I'll say shut up and take my money to a different game company.

Haha, will you look at that.

~Someone~ being owned in PVE despite using an ~elite pve~ ship, the horror.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Liandri Jenquai
Doomheim
#153 - 2012-12-07 02:34:18 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Liandri Jenquai wrote:

This is a HUGE wtf for me. This game is supposed to be a sandbox. If I want to carebear it up in empire then that is what I am paying CCP for. Nearly losing my expensive marauder simply because my drones all die before one little frigate gets popped is BS.


Few things:

1.) "Sandbox" just means "ruleset and/or tools without defined objective", not "do whatever you want to do". There's a lot of confusion about that.

2.) Tools and rules change.

3.) Do not fly an expensive Marauder you cannot afford to lose because of one little frigate. Or anything else for that matter.

4.) If any of the above are unsatisfactory, you really are better off giving your money to someone else. Griping about it while still paying will make no impression whatsoever. Leaving won't really make an impression either, but at least you'll be free of the hassle.




Maybe they should nerf what you do for fun so that the game is no longer enjoyable for you. Maybe if they don't want people to do things solo they should nerf hisec mining too.

I don't run missions for money. My skills aren't good enough to blitz them like everyone else. I run them because they are fun or rather were fun. Now I have to dual box two accounts just to ensure one stupid little frigate doesn't send my ship down in flames. But I guess that's what CCP wanted right? Drones dying = more money. L4s not being soloable = more money. Tell me, are you one of the people that threw a fit when the monocle was announced? Because you're acting like you've never complained about a thing in your life.

As to your point 4. One of the dumbest things I've ever heard. If I like don't like something I'm not going to sit around like a dog and just take it. I am going to gripe about it because it makes me feel better. Will I make a difference? No. Will me leaving for other games make a difference? No. Will a whole lot of people make a difference? Hope so.

They have increased the risk of L4s and if they aren't going to nerf NPC damage to drones then they need to increase the reward to compensate.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#154 - 2012-12-07 02:41:57 UTC
Liandri Jenquai wrote:
Maybe they should nerf what you do for fun so that the game is no longer enjoyable for you.


If they do, I'll be gone. Anyone who pays to be annoyed is an idiot.

All of my points are facts of life in EVE, it's the intent of the design. I'm not poking at you or telling you to like it, or HTFU or any of the other usual snide comments. It's just the truth.

I think the drone changes are pretty lame, and like most features around here didn't get nearly enough testing before they were implemented. It's the way things go.

In all seriousness, there's enough to EVE that you can probably find something else you'll enjoy. But if you can't tolerate those four facts, hanging around is just setting yourself up for bitter and endless disappointment.
Tesal
#155 - 2012-12-07 02:45:50 UTC
This issue is going to be decided by how many people unsub. My guess is a lot of alts will be seen as useless right now.
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#156 - 2012-12-07 02:48:58 UTC
Hey OP. I think you should adapt.
Liandri Jenquai
Doomheim
#157 - 2012-12-07 02:58:21 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Liandri Jenquai wrote:
Maybe they should nerf what you do for fun so that the game is no longer enjoyable for you.


If they do, I'll be gone. Anyone who pays to be annoyed is an idiot.

All of my points are facts of life in EVE, it's the intent of the design. I'm not poking at you or telling you to like it, or HTFU or any of the other usual snide comments. It's just the truth.

I think the drone changes are pretty lame, and like most features around here didn't get nearly enough testing before they were implemented. It's the way things go.

In all seriousness, there's enough to EVE that you can probably find something else you'll enjoy. But if you can't tolerate those four facts, hanging around is just setting yourself up for bitter and endless disappointment.


Isn't that basically griping without griping though? I love the game enough that I WANT the devs to see that I am displeased with the direction they are taking. I'm not going to just up and quit something I enjoy because a small part of it changed.

My accounts are up in February so they have until then to work the kinks out of this system.

I am NOT advocating afk mission running. The heavy missile nerf was deserved. The NPC dampening changes are brutal but at least I have drones that can kill those cruisers...oh wait I don't because they are killed within seconds of leaving the bay if there are frigates near by. Why does nobody see a problem with this? An Abaddon can only hit frigates at long range with its guns. You NEED drones to kill frigates. But frigates instapop drones.

Eve is not a safe place. Why are we being forced to play with groups of people in an environment where when I first started playing I was told rule #2 is never trust anyone?

Increased risk. Increase the reward now.
Kurai Okala
Okala Corp
#158 - 2012-12-07 03:03:53 UTC
It seems to me that the NPC AI changes (or at least their aggression towards drones) should have been implemented at the same time as a complete mission revamp (fewer more powerful enemies) and/or a substantial revamp to drones in general.

As they are now, drones are a terrible choice for a primary weapon system for PVE due to their high cost, limited capacity for reserves and new-found vulnerability which severely limits their range and ability to inflict damage.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#159 - 2012-12-07 03:16:17 UTC
Liandri Jenquai wrote:

Isn't that basically griping without griping though? I love the game enough that I WANT the devs to see that I am displeased with the direction they are taking...


No, you love what you want the game to be.

People stay in all kinds of bad relationships for the same reason.

The game is what it is. It may change, it may not. But chances are it will still come home drunk and beat the crap out of you.
Tawnia Baker
Deep Space Mining and Construction
#160 - 2012-12-07 03:21:24 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Liandri Jenquai wrote:
Maybe they should nerf what you do for fun so that the game is no longer enjoyable for you.


If they do, I'll be gone. Anyone who pays to be annoyed is an idiot.

All of my points are facts of life in EVE, it's the intent of the design. I'm not poking at you or telling you to like it, or HTFU or any of the other usual snide comments. It's just the truth.

I think the drone changes are pretty lame, and like most features around here didn't get nearly enough testing before they were implemented. It's the way things go.

In all seriousness, there's enough to EVE that you can probably find something else you'll enjoy. But if you can't tolerate those four facts, hanging around is just setting yourself up for bitter and endless disappointment.


Uhmm i think you are right in most points.

The current Drone shooting system really need many many patches before it really can work.
Ok i did nto lost any drones since the new AI was activated. I had some nice fights in 0 sec wiht some rats but did not loose anything , but it really with drones CCP try to take the easy way.
They did not make the AI really more intelligent, they only added some more simple variables. Now the AI know shooting drones is primary if small AI ships are around they shoot drones, normalyl i would say that makes some sort of sense but not if you now cannot use your drones anymore in missions.

Currently your drones are only some sort of cannon fodder and thats stupid. Stopping people from doing AFK missions in a drone boat is important, but not if the only option CCP see is making drones nearly useless.
Why not make drones act little bit different, let them attack everything if set to agressive around X km from the drones current location, so AFK wont work cause your drones wont clean everything.
Or ok let the AI shoot drones as they currently do but then buff drones shield, armor and hull so they have chance to survive if they are targetet, and also force the same rules for the NPC ships it really cant be that a ship with large turrets can hit small drones with 100% chance if the drones are orbiting this ship.