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What in the HECK is going on with Mineral Prices
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Knownasthatguy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-12-06 15:35:34 UTC
What I cannot understand is how, according to base manufacturing requirements, a hurricane (for example) is more expensive to build than it is to buy?

I priced the build cost at roughly 57M
Jita market prices are 45M, how can this be?

I have a sense that this game is: A) economy being controlled by large conglomerates (such as the CFC, where the "Union" has about 70K+ players); B) pushing people to buy plexes or gtc (cash cow for ccp); and C) the market is being manipulated (my hunch).

Way back in the day (yes, I've been playing longer than I've been married), there used to be some economics professor that had some weight into the eve economy, what happened to them? What would they say about the markets now?

I can, from my years of observations, say this game has become a "griefers" game where you can't casually play (for those who work 40+hrs a week) and the price to pvp has outpaced what one could earn through mission running. Highsec is lawless (as compared to what it used to be) and loot thieves make it financially improbable to take full advantage of mission running.

I have the sense to think that CCP want's you to buy more than one account, they want you to buy plexes/gtcs to keep up with the inflation of pvp, and there is no motive to change it.

I am absolutely interested in reading an analysis on what the community feels is driving the economy (good or bad); in my opinion in a trajectory that will eventually be unsustainable.

my $.02 worth
enterprisePSI
#2 - 2012-12-06 15:39:14 UTC
first to the fountain of delicious tears.

The tears of the many, outweigh the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi©
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-12-06 16:04:07 UTC
Dont build hurricanes ? At the moment ?

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Master Gotama
Black Sky Hipsters
#4 - 2012-12-06 16:09:20 UTC
seems like an opportunity to me. buy hurricane at $45M, reprocess and sell mins at $57M. profit?!?
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-12-06 16:20:25 UTC
Master Gotama wrote:
seems like an opportunity to me. buy hurricane at $45M, reprocess and sell mins at $57M. profit?!?


If he figured out how to make one , he should be able to reprocess one aswell :|

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Dave stark
#6 - 2012-12-06 16:27:53 UTC
you say that like minerals have always been the price they are now...
Knownasthatguy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-12-06 16:29:32 UTC
as usual, people cant stay on topic; perhaps it's what happens when you spend too much time playing a game. I am specifically interested in the market facts and community theories, not a side bar conversation on missed opportunities and such.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-12-06 16:35:58 UTC
What teories ?

Ppl are making new ships and drones , and those sell for 1000% mineral price .
So the stuff which was build before 4 dec has its "old" price .

Youre aware of the Retribution expansion ?

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#9 - 2012-12-06 16:54:50 UTC
As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.

Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out.
While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks.
Master Gotama
Black Sky Hipsters
#10 - 2012-12-06 17:20:10 UTC
Knownasthatguy wrote:
as usual, people cant stay on topic; perhaps it's what happens when you spend too much time playing a game. I am specifically interested in the market facts and community theories, not a side bar conversation on missed opportunities and such.


so why don't you write up an analysis for us to critique? this isn't standard & poors, nobody's gonna spit out an economic analysis of EVE mineral and module markets based on your curiosity alone. give us something meaningful to consider, rather than rumor and conjecture, and you might spur a lively discussion. otherwise, be happy anyone's even responding to your little poast. cheers.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2012-12-06 17:23:35 UTC
Skydell wrote:
As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.

Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out.
While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks.


? Stealth nerfed?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#12 - 2012-12-06 17:26:53 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Skydell wrote:
As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.

Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out.
While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks.


? Stealth nerfed?



Do I really need to spell it out for you?

Reproc a cruiser, reproc a Barge.
They don't reproc at 90% of build. They reproc at 40% because they modified the build costs and kept reproc at old values to keep people from creating minerals. A short term fix with a long term nerf as a result.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#13 - 2012-12-06 17:31:59 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Skydell wrote:
As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.

Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out.
While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks.


? Stealth nerfed?



Do I really need to spell it out for you?

Reproc a cruiser, reproc a Barge.
They don't reproc at 90% of build. They reproc at 40% because they modified the build costs and kept reproc at old values to keep people from creating minerals. A short term fix with a long term nerf as a result.



Ahh. I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I understand what you mean.

Short version, because I'm not looking for an argument: It's not a nerf, because there is no /reduction/ in the materials you get back. Just an increase in what you have to put in.

While I might be wrong, I don't think reprocessing of this kind of thing isn't a major mineral transfer point. No numbers on it though.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#14 - 2012-12-06 17:40:30 UTC
So much missing information here (I particularly love the first reply about tears - which is less than worthless).

Mineral requirements for the Hurricane increased with the last patch so what everyone did was run a crap load of prepatch Hurricanes at the lower requirements and flooded the market. The same thing happened with mining barges last patch. I think that Retrievers are still selling for lower than the build value because of the backlog.

If you buy one now and reprocess it, it will reprocess at the original mineral value and not the higher amount - the missing materials are considered "extra" - this was done so that people couldn't make a ton of them prepatach and then make isk reprocessing them.

So, long answer to a short question, building new Hurricanes now will be a loss. The price will increase as the flooded market is bought out but there is no telling how long that will be.
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#15 - 2012-12-06 18:04:32 UTC
Toroup wrote:
So much missing information here (I particularly love the first reply about tears - which is less than worthless).

Mineral requirements for the Hurricane increased with the last patch so what everyone did was run a crap load of prepatch Hurricanes at the lower requirements and flooded the market. The same thing happened with mining barges last patch. I think that Retrievers are still selling for lower than the build value because of the backlog.

If you buy one now and reprocess it, it will reprocess at the original mineral value and not the higher amount - the missing materials are considered "extra" - this was done so that people couldn't make a ton of them prepatach and then make isk reprocessing them.

So, long answer to a short question, building new Hurricanes now will be a loss. The price will increase as the flooded market is bought out but there is no telling how long that will be.


In our region at the moment Retrievers seem to be back to normal. Cheaper to make than to buy.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#16 - 2012-12-06 18:49:41 UTC
Skydell wrote:
As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.

Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out.
While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks.


Yes, as I posted some (maybe just 1) days ago, even Genesis and other butt holes have all their belts totally stripped, even station-less systems and this despite the roids ATM are repopping every day.

Was about time: trending markets = PROFIT!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#17 - 2012-12-06 18:52:36 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Toroup wrote:
So much missing information here (I particularly love the first reply about tears - which is less than worthless).

Mineral requirements for the Hurricane increased with the last patch so what everyone did was run a crap load of prepatch Hurricanes at the lower requirements and flooded the market. The same thing happened with mining barges last patch. I think that Retrievers are still selling for lower than the build value because of the backlog.

If you buy one now and reprocess it, it will reprocess at the original mineral value and not the higher amount - the missing materials are considered "extra" - this was done so that people couldn't make a ton of them prepatach and then make isk reprocessing them.

So, long answer to a short question, building new Hurricanes now will be a loss. The price will increase as the flooded market is bought out but there is no telling how long that will be.


In our region at the moment Retrievers seem to be back to normal. Cheaper to make than to buy.


Jita low sell right now is 23.9M so it's still pretty off in The Forge. I think that build is something like 32-33M.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-12-06 19:53:55 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Skydell wrote:
As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.

Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out.
While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks.


? Stealth nerfed?



Do I really need to spell it out for you?

Reproc a cruiser, reproc a Barge.
They don't reproc at 90% of build. They reproc at 40% because they modified the build costs and kept reproc at old values to keep people from creating minerals. A short term fix with a long term nerf as a result.


Look at it the way we are. The lack of the ability for the market to respond to short term spikes in minerals through mass reproc means that it will be more manipulable. It adds more player driven content possibilities. Though it does indeed nerf a "profession".

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#19 - 2012-12-06 20:33:44 UTC
What is the reprocessing mineral return % of the total build cost for a Hurricane now?
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-07 00:20:46 UTC
You guys are getting off topic here. The issue is that Goons are forcing us to buy PLEX by selling us what we want to buy at below cost. Missions are impossible to run because of people looting and I'm pretty sure he said the market is dying. I've never heard of "building requirements" before, I assume that is a made up term to hide the massive conspiracy against the OP.
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