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CSM7 Dec Summit Topic - Player Experience (new and old)

First post
Author
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#1 - 2012-11-28 16:17:17 UTC
Details to come

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2 - 2012-11-30 06:45:28 UTC
New player tutorial needs to include being ganked and podded so that they quickly learn that undocking is a synonym for dangerous.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-02 04:44:13 UTC
admiral root wrote:
New player tutorial needs to include being ganked and podded so that they quickly learn that undocking is a synonym for dangerous.


Also, they need to be taught that losing everything isn't the end and that they can pick themselves up by their "bootstraps". They need to be taught how to use death to their advantage considering they are now immortal.


Veterans just need more things (profit) to chase after. This could include new modules and effects to be discovered by the individual player. Remember the empyrean age trailer with the chain lightning, yeah that eventually needs to make it's way into the game somehow. Push as much new stuff as you can towards nullsec and wormholes... perhaps a little in lowsec too?
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#4 - 2012-12-02 18:30:18 UTC
i beileve CCP should really work on ship models and EVE environments to enhance the new player experience.

i wouldn't be surprised if most new players quit EVE because they don't want to join a corp right away.

focus on making EVE intersting without the needed interaction of a corp, and you'll retain more newbs, who will likely venture out into the world of PVP.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-12-03 13:51:32 UTC
can we please get a checkbox that disables the damn rookie ships? i'm sick and tired of deleting them whenever i dock somewhere in a pod. or better yet add a button to the station services that will grant you a free rookie ship once a minute or so.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-12-03 17:47:51 UTC
In the tutorials, please include one on contracts. How to make one, how to accept one. I think this is an important part of the game and I am always surprised when people who have been playing the game as long as I have been playing have trouble and need help walking through creating contracts.

I would recommend adding contracts to the business line, and replacing the 5th mission since you get the contracting skill book at the previous step.

Possibility 1: Instead of delivering the datachip, contract it to the agent. This will need some way to replace the chip when folks mess it up.

Possibility 2: The agent issues the player a courier contract. This will teach how to accept and complete contracts.

admiral root wrote:
New player tutorial needs to include being ganked and podded so that they quickly learn that undocking is a synonym for dangerous.

I concur. Perhaps change one of the "advanced military" missions in the tutorials could have this step, especially since 2 of them require losing your ship - one of them could involve waking up in the clone bay as well. As a note, one of the guys who podded me early on in the game were probably surprised that I was not cursing them and instead thanked them for reminding me to change my clone location out of the newbie system.
Oscha Esservic
Theta1
#7 - 2012-12-06 02:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Oscha Esservic
Daniel Plain wrote:
can we please get a checkbox that disables the damn rookie ships? i'm sick and tired of deleting them whenever i dock somewhere in a pod. or better yet add a button to the station services that will grant you a free rookie ship once a minute or so.

And then ship spinning vies for idle your time with ship spawning. HAHA

Actually I agree and would also like to change which rookie ship I default to (when I choose to get one).
Wyndeigo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-12-06 16:05:07 UTC
As high sec has the largest population in the game and attracts the newer players the most and low and Null sec are targeted to a very specific audience and game play style, I believe that high sec needs to have as much of a content focus as Null has to be reworked.

I have characters in both Null and High sec and I do not do any pve in either with the exception of shooting an occasional rat here and there. PVE in the game is above and beyond repetitive, boring and needs to have a very much needed breath of life in it. The anomaly nerfs in 0.0 where hard felt by null folks ( Pure Blind is now more awful than ever ) and the high sec mission running is all the same no matter what part of the map your in, just different rats based on the race.

High sec missions need expanding with more diversity. Small group missions maybe, missions that would require maybe logi support, smaller scale incursions ( all factions, not just Sansha ) increase rats in all belts and frequency of the rats spawns. This would include all parts of space, High, low and Null. ( the only good rat is a dead rat )

The personal POS ideas I think would be great, gives a player more stake in the game when they own something other than docked ships.

I know this has probably been said more times than mittens has made speeches ( no disrespect to mittens o7 ) even though there is a lot of space out there in Eve no one goes to,I think more should be opened up and give people a reason to go there. It has been said time and time again, but CCP does not need all that space in the north to test. Make a story line chain that has the races opening up parts of Jove space. Everyone wants to go there, make it happen. Make it not claimable , but maybe great for exploration, new tec, blueprints for ships and modules to be uncovered and discovered.

And always, MORE SHIPS. We all want more ships, new ships, new classes and in every current class except Titans.

Just some basic ideas, all have, I am sure been said before me.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#9 - 2012-12-12 05:37:59 UTC
As per several threads worth of complaints, please address the removal of Jukebox. Not that I don't like to see Jita crawl to a halt, but this has the potential to be the next ship spinning shitstorm, particularly with CCP's positively brilliant idea to troll the people opposed to it with the 'New Eden Soundbox' in game item.
Anne-Louise Chasse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-12-22 22:08:34 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
As per several threads worth of complaints, please address the removal of Jukebox. Not that I don't like to see Jita crawl to a halt, but this has the potential to be the next ship spinning shitstorm, particularly with CCP's positively brilliant idea to troll the people opposed to it with the 'New Eden Soundbox' in game item.


They should combine the new with the old system and that each use what seems best. It is ridiculous to have to use another program to play the music of EVE.

And what of the ambiental music, that's fine in other MMOs that have never had jukebox, but in EVE is a lack of respect for the players.

Less options = bad for sandbox.

Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-24 04:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
(forums goofed - delete post)

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-24 05:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
It's been a while since I started a new character. I did so recently on a trial and found it to be completely awful. I believe the amount of SP new players start with is appallingly low. A common complaint is that new players can't do anything and rightly so. The starting SP used to be 800,000, but CCP reduced it down to just 55,000. That's a whopping 93% reduction. Wow. Why CCP chose to shoot themselves in the foot like this is beyond my understanding (it was pre incarna CCP, mind you). I believe all new characters should start with the following list of skills. None of these are trial account restricted and very few have prerequisites.

-Electronic Warfare 1
-Sensor Linking 1
-Propulsion Jamming 1
-Target Painting 1
-Weapon Disruption 1
-Survey 1/2/3
-Salvaging 1
-Mechanic 3
-Targeting 1
-Electronic Upgrades 1
-Sensor Linking 1
-Long Range Targeting 1
-Energy Grid Upgrades 1
-Energy Systems Operations 1
-Energy Emission Systems 1
-Energy Management 1
-Repair Systems 1
-Hull Upgrades 1
-Warp Drive Operation 1
-Afterburner 1
-Shield Operation 1
-Shield Upgrades 1
-Energy Grid Upgrades 1
-Tactical Shield Manipulation 1
-Starting Race Frigate 3
-Astrometrics 1 (Holy *** CCP! Why don't new players have this to start?)
-Weapon Upgrades 1

Why these skills? These skills are the prerequisites to be able to use most T1 meta level 1 mods. They won't be able to use them well, but at least they will be able to use them. What this means for new players is that the list of activities they can participate in just grew a whole lot more then just dull mission running and mining.

On top of that, I believe a revamp of module and skillbook text is in order. Clearer descriptions about what this or that does along with what modules are affected by which skills.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-12-24 07:14:58 UTC
I started with about 55,000 SP back in 2006.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-26 12:20:13 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
It's been a while since I started a new character. I did so recently on a trial and found it to be completely awful. I believe the amount of SP new players start with is appallingly low. A common complaint is that new players can't do anything and rightly so. The starting SP used to be 800,000, but CCP reduced it down to just 55,000. That's a whopping 93% reduction. Wow. Why CCP chose to shoot themselves in the foot like this is beyond my understanding (it was pre incarna CCP, mind you)

New players train at double speed for their first couple of weeks. The old 800k newbie system gave genuine newbies a massive list of skills they had no idea how to use and before they had the in-game knowledge to know which build to specialise into, whilst being rampantly abused by veterans to create free pre-trained alts without ever needing to spend training time on them.

Also, the way to let newbies do things isn't by giving them masses of skills, but by improving the opportunities available to low-SP characters (for example the recent rebalancing of T1 frigates and cruisers, and introducing the Venture).

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Niveuss Nye
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-11 03:14:52 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:
It's been a while since I started a new character. I did so recently on a trial and found it to be completely awful. I believe the amount of SP new players start with is appallingly low. A common complaint is that new players can't do anything and rightly so. The starting SP used to be 800,000, but CCP reduced it down to just 55,000. That's a whopping 93% reduction. Wow. Why CCP chose to shoot themselves in the foot like this is beyond my understanding (it was pre incarna CCP, mind you)

New players train at double speed for their first couple of weeks. The old 800k newbie system gave genuine newbies a massive list of skills they had no idea how to use and before they had the in-game knowledge to know which build to specialise into, whilst being rampantly abused by veterans to create free pre-trained alts without ever needing to spend training time on them.

Also, the way to let newbies do things isn't by giving them masses of skills, but by improving the opportunities available to low-SP characters (for example the recent rebalancing of T1 frigates and cruisers, and introducing the Venture).



True. But I think I probably should have started with a few more as a new player.

I will give you an example.

I was lucky enough to be approached by a corp a day or so into the game. Now, this corp does certain things. The problem is that I lacked some of the skills to make myself useful in some situations and feel a bit like dead wieght and left out of some fun. As I get more skill points, though it gets better since I am now almost a month in.

I think the solution is to let you select certain "majors" from your starting tutorial. By doing these tutorials you can get up to level 4 in very select and limited number of skills. Alternatively, have a +X to a skill or two during character creation. A person majoring in mining for example may very well start with mining IV. The guy that spent his senior year practicing frigate gunnery may already have gunnery IV. Not I should have had level V in 6 skills... but at least be good at one thing? Makes me wonder what they teach at these newbie Universities.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-01-11 23:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Wyndeigo wrote:
As high sec has the largest population in the game and attracts the newer players the most and low and Null sec are targeted to a very specific audience and game play style, I believe that high sec needs to have as much of a content focus as Null has to be reworked.

Retribution: Crimewatch/bounty hunting expansion, Highsec
Inferno: Wardec-based expansion, highsec
Crucible: UI/ship balancing based expansion, non-sec specific
Inferno: WiS
Incursion: highsec
Tyrannis: PI with no secstatus difference, highsec
Dominion: nullsec (no actual improvements though)

how much more "content focus" does highsec need exactly?
Null has been awfully selfish with its one expansion in 7 years
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-01-11 23:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
anyways so two step did you guys discuss something like a strategy to get new players involved in the emergent player-created content that overwhelmingly has been the hook that retains new players, such as removing obstacles like NPC corps and clamping down on wardec evasion?

or did you spend it evaluating various anti-miner bumping modules and further idiotproofing the tutorial?